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How do you lift the toepiece on a ski boot.

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

I ran extensive google and epicski searches, but found nothing specific.

 

 

How do you raise the toepiece of a ski boot to reduce delta?  (in-boot and binding stuff is out of question).

 

 

If something were to be attached to the bottoms of my toe lugs, then how would they still work with DIN?

 

 

 

 

Lastly, what kind of price tag does this kind of thing have (approximate guesses would be helpful)?

post #2 of 22


By having the top routed down to meet spec.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

If something were to be attached to the bottoms of my toe lugs, then how would they still work with DIN?

 

 

 

My local guy charges $200 ish to do this.    I  no longer trust the local guy's  work and I take boots to one of the posters in the Epicski boot forum.

post #3 of 22

I trimmed, drilled and placed a thin piece of plexiglass under the toe piece of my binding on my most used set of skis. It worked perfectly and reduced the delta on that setup. The plexi was thin enough for me to use the same binding screws. To do this on a boot ........... I have no idea........... Good luck

 

post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post


By having the top routed down to meet spec.

 

 



Are there many bootfitters qualified to do this floating around?  (i.e. this is issue of safety, and while screwed up shell-stretching is one thing, screwed up toe adulteration is another).

post #5 of 22

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post



Are there many bootfitters qualified to do this floating around?  (i.e. this is issue of safety, and while screwed up shell-stretching is one thing, screwed up toe adulteration is another).



I drive 2.5 hours each way  to take work to the guy I trust.

post #6 of 22

I've used the services of Billy Kaplan on my boots and toe routing was involved to make up for the canting.  I did not see any broken plastic and I came out of the bindings when I needed to and stayed in when I needed to.  Something to be aware of is if you have removable sole plates, there isn't a lot of plastic to be ground down before you get into a hollow section so you may not be able to raise a huge amount.  Solid soles give a lot more plastic to work with.  I would at least giving him a call.

post #7 of 22

You're in PA?

I would think Cantman does this. Look at the bootfitter pages.

It's not new.

Here's something relatively new, gives some photos:

 

http://cantology.com/index.htm

post #8 of 22

Just so you know, you can't do this to all boots. If the toe of the boot is hollow (and the often are) you won't be able to router after installing the lift.

post #9 of 22

+1 on Billy Kaplan. 

post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

Are there many bootfitters qualified to do this floating around?  (i.e. this is issue of safety, and while screwed up shell-stretching is one thing, screwed up toe adulteration is another).


Anybody who sets up race boots should be able to do this.  Plating a boot and routing the lugs back to spec is quite common, and is really easy for a fitter to do.  Since you're specifying the thickness of the plate, all you really need is somebody who's a decent craftsman to do the work. (and make sure you're within the bounds that will result in a sufficiently-strong lug when he's done)

 

While I still think the best thing you can do is find a good fitter and let him set up your boots from start to finish, what you're asking for doesn't require a good fitter.  There are lots of guys out there I wouldn't trust to set up my boots as far as angles and such, but would be perfectly competent to do the type of work you're asking about.  The value in a good fitter is mostly in knowing exactly what work to do; there are lots of great craftsmen out there who will do great work if you tell them precisely what to do, and this fits cleanly in that category.

post #11 of 22

Our local boot-fitting expert will plane your boot sole to match the knock kneed or bow legged stance you have for $150.00.

 

In order to correct the ramp angle that is built into bindings he shims under the toe piece with plastic. Bindings vary, some have an insane amount of ramp built in. Can anyone tell me why bindings are made like that?

post #12 of 22

You can go to Suburban Ski and Bike....... They are located in Berlin/CT.. Don't know how far is from you.They charged me $175 to do the canting and toe lift and did a great job.. Ask for Peter.

post #13 of 22

If you don't switch skis a lot, the easiest thing is to order shims from the binding manufacturer (your shop might even have them in stock), and fit them under the toe piece.  Most manufacturers make custom shims for many of their binding models.  You will then need to get longer screws from the shop, depending on the stack height of the shims (you can stack several shims to get the height you desire, or experiment).

 

If you have several pairs of skis with different bindings and different deltas, binding shims are again the best way to go because you can customize each binding.  If you decide to use lifters and plane the top of the boot toe lug by the same amount, what is perfect with one pair of bindings won't necessarily be the right amount for a different pair (but it's better than nothing).

 

Personally, I do both.  I have lifters under my boot toes and I also shim some of my bindings as well.  It all depends on the binding and skis, and what I feel works best.

post #14 of 22

+1 on http://www.suburbanskiandbike.com

 

They support race programs and are diligent about fit, alignment and stance. They do this kind of work all the time... WHEN NECESSARY.

 

I bought my new RX 130s there and their techs thought I *might* need a degree or so of canting on one leg. Before grinding my new boots, however, they wisely referred me to a Level III instructor they work with (Rolf) for an on-snow evaluation.

 

Apparently I only stand funny on flat floors, on snow my stance is fine. Hey, does this mean I was BORN to ski? biggrin.gif  (Not really, Rolf founds oodles of other problems, redface.gif)

 

Their diligence saved me $175-200 in unnecessary boot work. That kind of competence and honesty is worth more to me than nickel and diming a shop down on every purchase.

 

post #15 of 22

+1 on http://www.suburbanskiandbike.com

 

They support race programs and are diligent about fit, alignment and stance. They do this kind of work all the time... WHEN NECESSARY.

 

I bought my new RX 130s there and their techs thought I *might* need a degree or so of canting on one leg. Before grinding my new boots, however, they wisely referred me to a Level III instructor they work with (Rolf) for an on-snow evaluation.

 

Apparently I only stand funny on flat floors, on snow my stance is fine. Hey, does this mean I was BORN to ski? biggrin.gif  (Not really, Rolf found oodles of other problems, redface.gif)

 

Their diligence saved me $175-200 in unnecessary boot work. That kind of competence and honesty is worth more to me than nickel and diming a shop down on every purchase.

 

post #16 of 22

+1 on http://www.suburbanskiandbike.com

 

They support race programs and are diligent about fit, alignment and stance. They do this kind of work all the time... WHEN NECESSARY.

 

I bought my new RX 130s there and their techs thought I *might* need a degree or so of canting on one leg. Before grinding my new boots, however, they wisely referred me to a Level III instructor they work with (Rolf) for an on-snow evaluation.

 

Apparently I only stand funny on flat floors, on snow my stance is fine. Hey, does this mean I was BORN to ski? biggrin.gif  (Not really, Rolf found oodles of other problems, redface.gif)

 

Their diligence saved me $175-200 in unnecessary boot work. That kind of competence and honesty is worth more to me than nickel and diming a shop down on every purchase.

 

post #17 of 22

His profile says PA

 

 

 

Quote: http://www.epicski.com/a/boot-fitters-on-epicski

PENNSYLVANIA
________________________________________________

Cantman
Billy Kaplan
Performance Pedorthics, Inc.
1753 Bridgetown Pike
Feasterville Pa 18966
215 760 8226
800 283 2370
cantman@speakeasy.net

 

post #18 of 22

Ain't that a bitch.  Most of the moderately old Salomons I still use have a height adjustment screw for the toe pieces.  I see that some of my newer Markers, Rossi/Look and Head/Tyrolias do not have such a nifty feature.  Damn!

 

Adding a shim under the toe piece like racer suggests is probably where I'd go with such a quandary.

post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

 

Adding a shim under the toe piece like racer suggests is probably where I'd go with such a quandary.



Which is perfectly fine... so long as the binding allows it.    System bindings, Railflex bindings, etc = PITA.    

post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post



Which is perfectly fine... so long as the binding allows it.    System bindings, Railflex bindings, etc = PITA.    

 

Yep, all my skis have integrated binding systems, so this approach is out of question.
 

 

post #21 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post



Which is perfectly fine... so long as the binding allows it.    System bindings, Railflex bindings, etc = PITA.    



Do any competitive racers or high end carvers actually use system bindings?  You can shim between a plate and toe piece.

post #22 of 22

Hi Exracer,

You seem to know what you are talking about.  What is the maximum negative delta you have known anyone to create in their boot/binding set up?  If you add a 5mm toe plate to the underside of your boot (and route the top for din specs), do you need to do anything to the heel?

 

For folks with the stance issue of not being able to get forward, read on:

 

In my previous two pair of boots I had a custom 7mm toe lift built under the exterior of the shell.  I was considered a strong on and off-piste skier.  My current pair of boots is the Lange SC which stands for "Short Cuff".  I bought the short cuff to accommodate my rather voluminous calf.  By allowing a more upright tib/fib the thinking was that I would gain sufficient tongue pressure and avoid the need for a toe lift altogether.  Additionally, the binding ramp angle on my "go to" skis is at zero, and the heel in my footbed has been ground as low as possible.  Yet, with all of this I am still constantly reaching with the ball of my foot to stand up.  My ankles are exhausted.  I am overflexed at the knee, and my hips are behind my feet. Not only am I struggling to stand up in moguls and off-piste, but the side profile of my stance is an embarrassment.  Be cautioned that as you raise your toes a side effect may be more edge positivity on the big toe sides of my skis.  As I have flattened my ramp angle and gone higher in the toes, I have progressively canted myself laterally to reduce too much edge.  I plan on raising my toes more by re-installing a toe lift high enough to allow me to stand up relaxed across the entire sole of my foot.  I will keep you posted.  Live to ski.

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