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down sizing ski boots

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

i have been reading many threads posted about down sizing ski boots. everyone seems to be missing the facts. when down sizing ski boots you need to compare your foot length in cm vs shell size. comparing your street shoe size vs shell size is really comparing apples to oranges. street shoe sizes and shells sizes differ between manufactures, the only consistent fact we can compare to is your foot size in cm.

so my question is...................any one with a 27cm foot, what size lange shell fits best?

post #2 of 16

I traced my foot with ski sock on and then took some measurements and my foot is 10 1/4 long.....I wear a 26.5 in a lange fluid...

and I stuck my foot in the shell minus the liner and have the appropriate room on the sides of my feet as well as behind my heel with my toes brushing the front of the boot

 

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 

10 1/4 converts to 26cm, so you went 1/2 size larger

post #4 of 16

 26 & 26.5 are the same boot. The stickers are different - that's all.

 

Skip the math and just stick your foot in the boot.

 

BTW, it's not down sizing - it's right sizing.

post #5 of 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodent View Post

so my question is...................any one with a 27cm foot, what size lange shell fits best?

 

Length is only one dimension.  Width is very possibly more important than length.  But the fore/aft stiffness of the shell is probably the place where you need to start.  If you can't flex a boot with a flex index of 130 it doesn't really matter whether it fits or not.  Determine how stiff you need the boot to be  first, then determine what width you need, 97mm or 100mm or whatever.  When you put those two things together, there will probably be no more than two Lange boots that will work.  Go try them on in the proper length.

 

post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 

same shell size, but 26 liner is a bit shorter (26cm vs 26.5cm). i totally agree, right sizing. if you measure 27cm you should be in a 27cm boot regardless of your shoe size, in theory but  every manufacture is different. i just see all they racers claiming they have down sized 2 sizes only to find out that their foot length matches the shell size once i do a fitting

post #7 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodent View Post

 i totally agree, right sizing. if you measure 27cm you should be in a 27cm boot regardless of your shoe size...



as a starting point... what shoes/boots are 'marked; for sizing is possibly going to vary a bit...

 

a 27 cm foot length MAY indicate a boot size, but there are many other considerations...

one of which is sadly very neglected by many who I've seen fit people in boots... arch length (and then add #2 - Arch/Instep Height).

arch length helps determine the relative position of the ball of foot. It will also - for those with relatively higher arches/insteps, restrict how much shorter they can go without major mods (often unnecessary).

Over the years I've only seen 2 fitters actually measure and consider arch length...

Arch Length is directly tied to instep height, both of which have huge implications in which boots might work best for fit, and the size.

 

Example - I measure 28.25 cm or 11 1/8 in. in foot length However, my arch length (heel to ball of foot) measures 21 cm, or just shy of 8 1/4 in.

Long ago 'normalized' chrts have existed which provide equivalency between foot and arch length - the average foot.

If you don;t fit nicely on these charts you have "long toe' or 'short toe' characteristics. If you look at a brannock device or chart you can see the foot scale and then also see the arch length measurement.

Here's a chart from Nike, which is the same as the Brannock chart and device.

Chart says my foot length is '11", but then the arch length of 8 1/4 says my size is between 12.5 & 13... - I'm very short toed...

also very high arched/instep.

 

but, but, but, Nike makes soft shoes which need to flex !!!! true, but they use the same general foot models that all footwear manufacturers use as a base (including ski boot manus) and modify according to their own 'make it fit and be spectacular' formulas and secrets...

 

I can only go so far down in size before I'm jamming my phalanges, metatarsals and sesamoid into the rapidly decreasing space of a short boot, and at the same time crushing my arch all the way from the navicular down to the metas/sesamoid. Whith my foot, a 27/27.5 shell gives +-12 mm behind the heel - an incredibly excruciating boot to fit from any manu. Generally a 28/28/5 gives +-22 mm space and makes a good fit possible (except for the newer Langes, which at 28.5 crush the hell out of my instep...)

Alpine Boots are rigid, and making huge mods to a boot seems overboard for most skiers - better to find the boot manu which fits your foot best and go from there to find the best model and size.

 

I'm sayin there's way more to boot fitting than 10 to 15 mm behind your heel when in a bare shell, there's more than just foot length, there's width, there's shaft height and volume, and on...

If just fitting to foot length works for you, so be it, great.

But for anyone out there who really wants to get the best fit for balance of performance, comfort and not create foot problems down the road - there are a lot of factors to consider - some factors that many fitters seem to easily ignore or just don;t know about.

post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodent View Post

same shell size, but 26 liner is a bit shorter (26cm vs 26.5cm).


Not true, this myth needs to be stopped.

 

post #9 of 16

I work in a ski shop and I was told by one of our boot reps that the difference between a 26 and 26.5 (or other half sizes) is the thickness of the footbed.  The shells and liners are the same.  If you look in the shell under the liner, you will usually see the shell size stamped in the plastic somewhere.  It always shows 26-26.5.  Same with the liners.  Our shop only brings in the .5's, some shops only bring in the even sizes.  I don't know of any shop that brings in both.

 

Rick G

post #10 of 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post


Not true, this myth needs to be stopped.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickg View Post

I work in a ski shop and I was told by one of our boot reps that the difference between a 26 and 26.5 (or other half sizes) is the thickness of the footbed.  The shells and liners are the same. 

 

Exactly.  Glad this self-styled "fitter" isn't anywhere around here.

post #11 of 16

Great point. On a brannock, my foot measure a 7 (25), but my arch length is 8-8.5. The boot that fits me best currently is a UK6 (equivalent to a 25). In the past I have been in a 24, but because my arch length is greater then my foot length, it puts the wide meaty part of my foot in the part of the boot that is tapering and becoming more narrow. I find matching the fit of my foot through the heel, instep and arch length, I get the best all day fit.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by moreoutdoor View Post



as a starting point... what shoes/boots are 'marked; for sizing is possibly going to vary a bit...

 

a 27 cm foot length MAY indicate a boot size, but there are many other considerations...

one of which is sadly very neglected by many who I've seen fit people in boots... arch length (and then add #2 - Arch/Instep Height).

arch length helps determine the relative position of the ball of foot. It will also - for those with relatively higher arches/insteps, restrict how much shorter they can go without major mods (often unnecessary).

Over the years I've only seen 2 fitters actually measure and consider arch length...

Arch Length is directly tied to instep height, both of which have huge implications in which boots might work best for fit, and the size.

 

Example - I measure 28.25 cm or 11 1/8 in. in foot length However, my arch length (heel to ball of foot) measures 21 cm, or just shy of 8 1/4 in.

Long ago 'normalized' chrts have existed which provide equivalency between foot and arch length - the average foot.

If you don;t fit nicely on these charts you have "long toe' or 'short toe' characteristics. If you look at a brannock device or chart you can see the foot scale and then also see the arch length measurement.

Here's a chart from Nike, which is the same as the Brannock chart and device.

Chart says my foot length is '11", but then the arch length of 8 1/4 says my size is between 12.5 & 13... - I'm very short toed...

also very high arched/instep.

 

but, but, but, Nike makes soft shoes which need to flex !!!! true, but they use the same general foot models that all footwear manufacturers use as a base (including ski boot manus) and modify according to their own 'make it fit and be spectacular' formulas and secrets...

 

I can only go so far down in size before I'm jamming my phalanges, metatarsals and sesamoid into the rapidly decreasing space of a short boot, and at the same time crushing my arch all the way from the navicular down to the metas/sesamoid. Whith my foot, a 27/27.5 shell gives +-12 mm behind the heel - an incredibly excruciating boot to fit from any manu. Generally a 28/28/5 gives +-22 mm space and makes a good fit possible (except for the newer Langes, which at 28.5 crush the hell out of my instep...)

Alpine Boots are rigid, and making huge mods to a boot seems overboard for most skiers - better to find the boot manu which fits your foot best and go from there to find the best model and size.

 

I'm sayin there's way more to boot fitting than 10 to 15 mm behind your heel when in a bare shell, there's more than just foot length, there's width, there's shaft height and volume, and on...

If just fitting to foot length works for you, so be it, great.

But for anyone out there who really wants to get the best fit for balance of performance, comfort and not create foot problems down the road - there are a lot of factors to consider - some factors that many fitters seem to easily ignore or just don;t know about.



 

post #12 of 16

I really don't understand why there is so much theorycrafting and  virtual boot fitting.  Especially when OP already narrowed it down to the manufacturer you liked?


Can you just not get to the shop and try on the boots?    You'll probably get it down to 2 choices one being too big and one being maybe too small (or needs to just break in) pretty quickly.

 

post #13 of 16

The OP was only trying to toot his virtual horn, not looking for any advice at all.

post #14 of 16
Thread Starter 

thanks for all the replies. discussions comparing  your foot length vs how the shells fit was way more informative than comparing to street shoe size. i ended up buying a lange RS 110 in a 27. my foot measures 27cm,even with a orthotic the length barely shortened ( i am flat footed),  i love how it fit across the instep which was surprising low. 

post #15 of 16

i was at the ski store here today trying on some boots.  the 'fitter' there just measures your foot on that old school thing thats in every shoe store and goes down one size or two if youre game.  i went with a boot that was a half size smaller than my size (im a 9.5 which would be boot 27.5 generically speaking, and i bought a 27 as it was a little snugger). my old boots were the 'right' size 9.5/27.5 and had about an inch and a half behind my foot in the empty shell which seemed kind of too much just in my own amateur opinion.

post #16 of 16

This is how I always understood it.  Same shell size and liner...different footbed thickness.  I ski Lange WC 150 and have beasically been in Langes for quite some time so not sure if it varis across manuf.

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