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Would this setup work for beginner?... (thanks)

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

Hi. Thanks for your time. I've been reviewing gear for the past week and I am thinking about the following setup...

 

Boots
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=200654543404&cmd=VIDESC&index=10&nav=SEARCH&nid=58234741247

Bindings
http://www.mec.ca/AST/ShopMEC/Snowsports/BackcountrySkiing/Bindings/PRD~5020-338/fritschi-eagle-bindings-86mm-brake.jsp

Skis
http://www.skis.com/mens-twin-tip-skis/c1000003492/elan-pinball-skis-2012-p229357.html
 

I'm hoping to get some ease, versatility and fun out of this setup. And perhaps try some uphill or cross-country hiking, which is reason for the AT binding.

 

I'm mostly interested in reasons why any of this wouldn't work. Also, I realize I'd likely need to get service to fit the boots/liners etc.


Thanks,

Adam
 

post #2 of 11

Welcome to Epic.  The first thing is that eBay is probably the worst place in the world to buy boots, especially when you're just getting started.  What do you know about these boots?  How wide are they?  How do you know they fit?  The odds are very good that they're too big.  Go to the "Ask the Boot Guys" forum and read the wikis about fitting and terminology so you have some idea of how boots should fit.  Then check the "Who's Who" for a qualified boot fitter near you.  If there isn't one listed ask and someone here can recommend one.  When you locate one, call and make an appointment.  Listen to and heed the advice of the fitter.  When you have boots that fit your feet properly, demo some skis and see what you like.  If your boots don't fit properly you can't control your skis and your feet will not be happy.

post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 

Thank you. All good points about the boot and fitting. I've been to shops around here and have done quite a bit of research to understand what fitting is about including the shaping of the boot and custom insouling.

 

What I'd like to I know is whether the boot sole will interface with the binding and the binding with the ski.

 

So I've been to shops and they carry certain brands and it seems at some hefty premiums. I'm easily going to pay double for something similar.

 

We'll see. Just trying to get educated. Thanks for the advice.

 

Cheers!

post #4 of 11

The binding and ski combination is not a problem.  The boots are alpine boots, if I remember correctly and the binding is an AT binding.  An alpine boot won't work in an AT binding and an AT boot won't work in an alpine binding.

post #5 of 11

An Alpine Boot WILL work in an AT binding like Fritschi, Marker and the soon to be released Salomon and Tyrolia.

post #6 of 11

OOPS.  My bad.

post #7 of 11

adamwest, you're looking at boots that are 29.5, so I'm guessing you're not a small guy. The longest length available in the ski you're looking at is 165. 

 

Thoughts

 

1. Unless you've tried this boot on with a bootfitter in a shop, chances are about 95-98% that they will not fit properly. Passably seemingly, but it's penny wise and pounds foolish.

 

2. How much do you weigh? Tall? (Trying to get a bead on general fitness) Any athletic ability or experience? Answer this and I'm thinking there are more appropriate skis out there.

 

3. Touring. Where are you located? Do you know if you're in avalanche territory? While backcountry skinning and hiking for turns is a great goal, it's not something to be taken lightly if you have limited ski skills and snow/mountain experience. Locally, we can skin up inbounds without trouble so long as we keep to the side of the slope and avoid closed runs/terrain. It's a good way to introduce someone to the art for sure, but not all areas and regions are willing to let skiers to this.

 

Priorities

 

1. Boots. Spend money here and get it right. 

 

2. Skis. Keep asking and getting advice. There's a lot of it here from some very knowledgeable folks. In the end, you'll have a list of 5 or 6 in a recommended length, then do your shopping for deals. In the meantime, demo. If you area has a good rental fleet, then rent as well.

 

3. Bindings. AT, sure, no worries, but the combo of AT bindings and alpine boots don't make for a very comfortable touring set up. And no, you're not going to go cross country skiing in AT bindings. They work much better for going up and down, but not so much 'sideways' with little elevation change. Honestly, you'll probably find a great deal on an alpine ski/binding combo. Save the AT stuff for a dedicated set up, or choose a 'side country' boot with a walk mode if you're going to go for an AT binding. But again, better to have a dedicate alpine setup to learn on.

 

Gear taken care of, budget for some  lessons. An adult multiweek program can be affordable and get things sorted out a bit for you.

post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 

Big thanks for all your time. Your advice does challenge my thinking. And I go back to recheck things...

 

The Elan Pinball ski is available in a 175. As the description reads, it seems a nice playful ski for beginner like me.  I've done lots of research and I like Elan, among others.

 

A little about me would add context to my rationale on this setup...

 

Yes. I am tall at 6'1". This plays into the reasoning for taking up skiing over continuing to be happy with snowboarding. It's just a more versatile way to play in snow. Judging by all the video I've been watching, reading and other research.

 

Back near end of 2009, I weighed in about 205 lbs. Since taking up snowboarding in Jan 2010, getting more into gym, and changing my food habits, I'm steady on about 195 lbs.

 

To understand my ability, one should consider that I've an above average intellect. By that I mean that generally I can master a craft in a short time. It helps that I have an obsessive personality when it comes to will power. Case in point, from the day I began to teach myself how to snow board, I continued to put myself on the local hill nightly for a min. of 2 hours running 15 consecutive days until I was linking turns down blue runs with confidence. Now I cruise on my board and outrun some intermediates who've been boarding for years. I finished same season as I started on black diamond runs atop Jay Peak in Vermont. And I just got back from a great week at Lake Louise. But maybe I digress?

 

What I realize is that "beginner" or "novice" when referring to another skier immediately brings to mind the most unathletic, and feabilist of persons futzing around while they try and make it down a green run without taking out themselves or others.  I'm not saying I won't look awkward in the beginning or even fall. But my athletic, intellectual abilities and pure will usually put me at advantage. :-)

 

Now. About the Daimir Fritschi Eagle 10s. Other than a ridiculous sale I've my eye on, which puts these at near $300, these are a wonder of a product. They CAN perform in Nordic/Cross-country, AT/Back-country, and the Alpine/down-hill. Look closely at how they have engineered the front hinging. ;-)

 

About the boot choice. As reported by others these are better fitted for "wide feet", which I have. Of course the length is determined by the common value of 29.5 found while trying on many other boots. The shell composite can be further fitted by a pro fitter and the footbeds can be made by them as well.

 

My end goal is to get in at a reasonable cost at $200 boots + $300 bindings + $250 skis, and really just be reviewing a nicer ski in a season or two.

 

Obviously I am battling the common battle between what is good for me and what is good for the economy. I'd love to find a setup where you could just hit a switch and your ski would retract the sides for improved performance on groomers while hitting another would eject the sides for improved width and float on deep powder conditions.  Or maybe a device that at least let's me transfer my binding investment to another ski?  But as is evident, beyond the physical obstacles, this industry is hell bent on profits. ;-)

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

post #9 of 11


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamwest View Post

To understand my ability, one should consider that I've an above average intellect. By that I mean that generally I can master a craft in a short time.

 

Welcome.    Please consider  that you are posting to a website that /collects/ both people of above average intellect and people who master craft in a (very) short time.   

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamwest View Post

 It helps that I have an obsessive personality when it comes to will power. Case in point, from the day I began to teach myself how to snow board, I continued to put myself on the local hill nightly for a min. of 2 hours running 15 consecutive days until I was linking turns down blue runs with confidence. Now I cruise on my board and outrun some intermediates who've been boarding for years. I finished same season as I started on black diamond runs atop Jay Peak in Vermont. And I just got back from a great week at Lake Louise. But maybe I digress?

 

 

That is a strong personality to start learning with.    As strong as it is, it has its failure modes.
 

The  failure modes of a personality like that are:

- inconsistency in performance, especially in variable conditions (and particularly with sketchily-fitted boots),

- not being able to recognize need for instruction to gain counter-intuitive elements into the existing skillset

- investing too much physical effort into the sport.

 

Those are all quite serious failure modes; someone not /quite/ as athletic or as work-ethic oriented can match or exceed the progress of a personality like ^this if they do not have those Achilles' heels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adamwest View Post


 

My end goal is to get in at a reasonable cost at $200 boots + $300 bindings + $250 skis, and really just be reviewing a nicer ski in a season or two.



Take $100 off that ski budget and throw it into boots for a bit more long term value.    Put another way:  Don't overthink your first skis.     That said, I think those Elan Pinballs are going to be too soft for you to learn proper edging skills.


Edited by cantunamunch - 1/12/12 at 2:00pm
post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

    That said, I think those Elan Pinballs are going to be too soft for you to learn proper edging skills.



My thoughts as well on the skis. Get good boots that fit well and look for used skis and bindings. Also the binding you're looking at is DIN 10. You're going to be at 7-7.5 out of the box. And back to the used thing, there are a lot of BC skiers with Fritsches in their closets as many have moved to the Dynafit system. And no matter what you think those binding can do, they won't be good for 'XC' type travel. Believe me. They go up, and they go down. If you want sideways, get a telemark or XCD set up. 

post #11 of 11

those skis look like they are meant for the park.  Is that what you are intending on learning first?  

 

From your essay, I think you should just learn all the plain groomed downhill skiing skills first and buy the generic equipment for that.  

I would look to get a pair of used frontside/allmountain skis (like a used demo) or new but previous year skis that come with bindings as your first skis.  Budget some money for a tune for the used skis and they should still be fine.  

I think once you've mastered all the frontside techniques, then you'll know enough to be able to figure out where you want from there.  

 

Boots, I think it's an error to think you can buy them and then get them fitted after the purchase.  Especially as most boot fitters will charge you an arm and an leg for customizations, especially if you did not purchase the boot from them to begin with.   If you want to save money on the internet, at least find a place to try on the boots and use the rules-of-thumb to see if it's at least pretty good out-of-the-box.  Then maybe you will only need some wedges or like just a off-the-shelf footbed or slight customization.

It is the same as going to a tailor with a suit that doesn't fit that you bought for $100.  Alterations would cost you $200.  Whereas you could've bought the proper sized suit and spent only $50 on alterations. 

 

As far as boots goes, i think certain boots you can at least switch the heel and toe plates to switch between alpine and AT mode.  Something to ask about at the shop, but I would still just say get the plain alpine boots

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