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How bad is this craptastic weather going to hurt the industry? - Page 2

post #31 of 54

I've made a conscious effort to spend a little more when I do go this season.  I actually bought something in the resort ski shop that wasn't absolutely necessary the other dayspit.gif  I could have ordered it online and don't even need it until next month. 

post #32 of 54

I think some of the lost revenue chases the snow.  We had a good dump early, followed by two spells of blocking high pressure, so we had sunny weather with some really good groomers.  They had record crowds after a skiff of new snow New Years.  I was surprised just how many people were out last week when there was no new snow and bike weather in town.  Bachelor must be doing pretty well this year.  They claim to have more acres open than all of California and Nevada combined.

 

I doubt Dawg has sold many powder skis yet though.

post #33 of 54

if you're interested in doing something positive, can you spare a little imagination and time ... to utilise resources the resorts are keen to offer Epicski's gathering.

 

I've been contacted by the senior marketer at Squaw, a casino near Mount Rose, and the marketing manager at Northstar and heavenly who's put me onto the International liaison and another senior marketer. The Epicski gathering already has pencilled in some big names. Alaskan brewing co become a sponsor a party hosted by Bud from snowind snosportsat Sky Tavern. start haus has offered the gathering some shwag. Pretty sure I can ask McAlpine & Cooke from skilifts.com.au for some Schwag. I know a few Australian ski instructors at Squaw Valley, and I asked my client's Alpine coordinator  whether they want to provide a little something. I am also waiting on www.slacker.com ( and Internet radio company run by Warner records' Alex Cortez) if they would be interested in coming on board with something. In other words, lots of people chip in their expertise and equipment such as go -- pro cameras, and maybe even a helicopter for some helicopter shots.

 

I'll even asked my mother-in-law is scared of the carp out of Ullr if he doesn't get his act together.

 

Would members of the gathering be interested in working to promote tourism to the Tahoe resorts with a few parties and showcasing the region? I know statistically you lost something like 55,000 Brit skiers and that figure was before their economy really tanked. The Tahoe resorts seem keen enough to come on board if you guys are.

 

So are you interested?

post #34 of 54

If it really got that bad i think they'd be offering locals steep discounts but I'm guessing owners of these multimillion $ resorts have some common sense and $ in the bank knowing they have invested in an industry that waxes and wanes with the weather. 

post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

However, the folks that rely on slinging chairs, pushing rentals, and clearing tables to pay their next month's electricity bill are really in big trouble right now. 



 

I feel for these people but hopefully this will prompt a few of these kids to get an education or otherwise in increase their marketable skills. 

post #36 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velobuff View Post



 

I feel for these people but hopefully this will prompt a few of these kids to get an education or otherwise in increase their marketable skills. 


Income is not necessarily proportionate to happiness.

 

post #37 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post


Income is not necessarily proportionate to happiness.

 


True, but in the immortal words of David Lee Roth:

"Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a big enough boat to cruise right up along side it."

 

post #38 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velobuff View Post



 

I feel for these people but hopefully this will prompt a few of these kids to get an education or otherwise in increase their marketable skills. 



What about the families with breadwinners that are doing it and pinching every penny so their kids can "get an education or otherwise in increase their marketable skills?"  I didn't see many teens and twenty-somethings there.  It was mostly folks in their 30s and 40s that still got hours there.  Really, in a climate where people can't pay their electricity bills or housing costs suggesting that they get a better education is an elitist thing to suggest.  It's a little late for that for most. 

post #39 of 54


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velobuff View Post

If it really got that bad i think they'd be offering locals steep discounts but I'm guessing owners of these multimillion $ resorts have some common sense and $ in the bank knowing they have invested in an industry that waxes and wanes with the weather. 



I paid $20 for an all day lift ticket on Jan 2nd.  I bought a helmet for 50% off (off the real online price, not their faux makes it look discounted price) in the resort shop last weekend.  You're only getting gouged if you don't do your homework.

post #40 of 54

Yes, but you're also skiing in North Carolina.  Only other place I know of with decent vertical and sub $30 lift tickets is the Snow King in Jackson, WY

post #41 of 54


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



What about the families with breadwinners that are doing it and pinching every penny so their kids can "get an education or otherwise in increase their marketable skills?"  I didn't see many teens and twenty-somethings there.  It was mostly folks in their 30s and 40s that still got hours there.  Really, in a climate where people can't pay their electricity bills or housing costs suggesting that they get a better education is an elitist thing to suggest.  It's a little late for that for most. 


Then don't have kids if you can't afford it. Don't live out of your means. Save for a rainy (pun intended) day. Seriously.

 

Just because some people are not prepared doesn't make prepared people elitist for suggesting they prepare. That's a copout if I ever heard of one, never mind that your argument is ad hominem...


Edited by Velobuff - 1/18/12 at 9:18pm
post #42 of 54

Elitist? Perhaps not.

 

Condescending and douchey? Check and check.

post #43 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post


Income is not necessarily proportionate to happiness.

 



Actually it is. If you do a survey and draw a graph you will find a positive correlation.  If your point is that not every person follows the trend, you would of course be right.  A board like this is a good place to find those people.  Ones who would rather make a low wage if it lets them ski more.

 

If the raft guide in the summer/ski bum in the winter crowd is having trouble paying their bills I feel sorry for them, but the elitist douche in me has seen it happen to everyone from farmers to home builders to oil and gas professionals at one time or another.  I'm getting to a time where some of my ski bum friends are worrying about their old age, so a dose of reality might do the young ones some good.

post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velobuff View Post


 


Then don't have kids if you can't afford it. Don't live out of your means. Save for a rainy (pun intended) day. Seriously.

 

Just because some people are not prepared doesn't make prepared people elitist for suggesting they prepare. That's a copout if I ever heard of one, never mind that your argument is ad hominem...



OK Whatever.. "Doom on youuuuuuuuuu!"

 

ICEAGE0006.bmp

post #45 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post

"Income is not necessarily proportionate to happiness"

Actually it isIf you do a survey and draw a graph you will find a positive correlation.  If your point is that not every person follows the trend, you would of course be right.  A board like this is a good place to find those people.  Ones who would rather make a low wage if it lets them ski more.

 



No, actually it isn't.

 

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S15/15/09S18/index.xml?section=topstories

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness_economics

 

if we were talking about extremely poor societies, then yes, wealth = happiness. In relatively 'rich' societies the effect of increased incomes effect on happiness stops at about $75,000 a year, once Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs are taken care of added wealth has little or no effect on increasing happiness, in fact chances are that adding income will decrease the oportunity for Leisure, which will decrease happiness for most people.  Biggie Smalls, The Notorious B.I.G., said it best: Mo Money Mo Problems

 

post #46 of 54

I'm less concerned about the "Industry" than the local economies and ultimately people who depend on the "industry".

 

Many areas of Vermont have been devastated by Irene and the subsequent flooding and the local economies really need a boost.  I'm more concerned about the girls who serve me lunch and lifties who get my kids on the single at MRG.

post #47 of 54

Actually, you're both right and wrong.  They did a pretty comprehensive study on income to happiness levels that was published last year, for US citizens.  The results were approximately like this...

 

$0 - $75k per year = increased happiness with income level.

 

$75k per year - billions per year = about the same happiness level.

 

Hard to believe, but it's true.  I'm sure that 75k tipping point is a median average that can vary quite a bit depending on where you live (i.e. 75k goes a hell of lot further in Mississippi than NY or CA, for example).  Most of it has to do with social circles and altered expectations.  A buddy of mine, his college roommate from back in the day, used to be pretty modest in terms of needs and was a very down to Earth guy.  Then he went the Wall Street route, took a few companies public, and was worth millions.  But the guys / couples in his new social circles were flying around on private jets, and so then he wanted to be able to do that and was miserable.  Sounds completely ridiculous, but then most people are ridiculous.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by newfydog View Post



Actually it is. If you do a survey and draw a graph you will find a positive correlation.  If your point is that not every person follows the trend, you would of course be right.  A board like this is a good place to find those people.  Ones who would rather make a low wage if it lets them ski more.

 

If the raft guide in the summer/ski bum in the winter crowd is having trouble paying their bills I feel sorry for them, but the elitist douche in me has seen it happen to everyone from farmers to home builders to oil and gas professionals at one time or another.  I'm getting to a time where some of my ski bum friends are worrying about their old age, so a dose of reality might do the young ones some good.



 

post #48 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post



No, actually it isn't.

 

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S15/15/09S18/index.xml?section=topstories

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness_economics

 

if we were talking about extremely poor societies, then yes, wealth = happiness. In relatively 'rich' societies the effect of increased incomes effect on happiness stops at about $75,000 a year, once Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs are taken care of added wealth has little or no effect on increasing happiness, in fact chances are that adding income will decrease the oportunity for Leisure, which will decrease happiness for most people.  Biggie Smalls, The Notorious B.I.G., said it best: Mo Money Mo Problems

 

 


 

Thanks. I knew that didn't sound right at all but would never have actually dug up the research. Wealthy people don't necessarily seem any happier than anyone else. They just have a different set of problems.

post #49 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

 

if we were talking about extremely poor societies, then yes, wealth = happiness. In relatively 'rich' societies the effect of increased incomes effect on happiness stops at about $75,000

 

Under $75,000 is "extremely poor"?  Man, you must be selling some skis!

 

Actually that sounds about right.  It seems among my friends, they seem to want to work up to the point they have their house paid off and and outside income in that range.  Then they quit and play full time. That is well above the level of most ski area workers, who are still in the zone of positve correlation between money and happiness.

On a brighter note, our ski area employees either had the day off or lots of overtime.  We had 79 inches of snow in 72 hours, and it closed the mountain


Edited by newfydog - 1/20/12 at 10:56am
post #50 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velobuff View Post


 


Then don't have kids if you can't afford it. Don't live out of your means. Save for a rainy (pun intended) day. Seriously.

 

Just because some people are not prepared doesn't make prepared people elitist for suggesting they prepare. That's a copout if I ever heard of one, never mind that your argument is ad hominem...



Condescending and douchey is right.

 

How long do you think the rainy day will last? I've got friends who have been out of work for two years now. They started out prepared...but it only goes so far. Unemployment here is still over 10%, and most of the country isn't any better off.

post #51 of 54

It is marginal utility and diminishing returns that are why we reach a point where more money doesn't provide more happiness in a linear form.  This is also the justification for a marginal tax table system rather than a flat tax.  Once you have millions of dollars an additional 20% of wealth doesn't provide nearly the same kick that an additional 20% of wealth does for someone currently making 40K.

 

It also makes it much more difficult to sling chairs/burgers/rentals, save for a rainy day, get an education, AND provide for your children.  In the end it is our family, friends,and neighbors that are the biggest source of our happiness.  We try top gather wealth to distract us from that truth to no avail...

post #52 of 54

Slightly off topic, but shop around for an education, or go online,  there's a 2 year resort management diploma $30k (ie $15k a year) or $36k over 2 years for alpine. 4 joint campuses in China, 1 in Singapore, more in Australia. It's suported by Hilton Worldwide and others. We're sponsoring young teen ski athletes in ski camps at Winter Park and a few elite World Cup racers are on scholarships while they plan a career after their racing ends

 

Much is or will be online http://www.angliss.edu.au/resorts?utm_source=nolchlaw&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=contractorweb%0d%0a

post #53 of 54

$15K per year for resort management?

 

No thanks.

 

I paid about half that to go to a good college. Granted that was 10 years ago, but you're talking a lot of money for a pretty narrow degree. I don't imagine there are a lot of openings for "resort manager fresh out of two-year college". You'd probably still have to work your way up the resort--the same as the guy that just graduated high school for free. 

post #54 of 54


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by veteran View Post

Slightly off topic, but shop around for an education, or go online,  there's a 2 year resort management diploma $30k (ie $15k a year) or $36k over 2 years for alpine. 4 joint campuses in China, 1 in Singapore, more in Australia. It's suported by Hilton Worldwide and others. We're sponsoring young teen ski athletes in ski camps at Winter Park and a few elite World Cup racers are on scholarships while they plan a career after their racing ends

 

Much is or will be online http://www.angliss.edu.au/resorts?utm_source=nolchlaw&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=contractorweb%0d%0a



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

$15K per year for resort management?

 

No thanks.

 

I paid about half that to go to a good college. Granted that was 10 years ago, but you're talking a lot of money for a pretty narrow degree. I don't imagine there are a lot of openings for "resort manager fresh out of two-year college". You'd probably still have to work your way up the resort--the same as the guy that just graduated high school for free. 


That's great. I didn't know high schools are recognised globally by Hilton, Chateau Fairmont etc and get work visas.

 

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