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coaches, sellers and experts, all of them say different things... to whom should we listen to??? - Page 2

post #31 of 47
Thread Starter 

Since she's 5, it's her 4th season of skiing...

 

Does slalom gate fobia end with time and distance or do we have to do something special?

 

cheers 

post #32 of 47

Every kid is different.  Some think that bashing gates is fun.  Of course, they'll have arm protection and a face guard and maybe even poles with guards on them.  Here, at her age, they are training with "stubbies" which alleviates the gate fear.  (My daughter when she was racing in high school had a gate swing back and some how get past her helmet, goggles and chin guard and smack her directly on the underside of her nose.  She came through the finish line with blood pouring out, quite a sight.  So, there is a good reason for her to be leery of them.)  Stubbies are brushes that are the "gates" for the course.  The kids learn to turn around these markers without fear of being smacked.  Once they can negotiate a slalom COURSE (pattern) then as they get older they get more time in "real" gates.  

post #33 of 47
Thread Starter 

As you said before it's cheap now and it will get expensive,

and it's more fun now and it will be serious...

 

Then it's better to enjoy when it's cheaper and more enjoyable smile.gif (cheap is for me, fun is for her)

 

Sorry for your daughter, i can imagine your sorrow as a dad in that moment :-(

 

cheers

post #34 of 47

She was fine, but her nose was NOT PRETTY.  The fact that she kept on going told me it couldn't be too bad.  Heck, she never tore an ACL which is something that becomes all too common.  As far as her vs. her team mates and others in the "division" she got off relatively unscathed in her career.  

 

Which, as a mom, made me happy.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ski-parent View Post

 

 

Sorry for your daughter, i can imagine your sorrow as a dad in that moment :-(

 

cheers



 

post #35 of 47

Compared to everything else you are spending, skis are cheap. Just get the ones the coach wants her on and try them. If they are too big she can run them next year. Or the year after. Too small? Chalk it up as a learning experience and get the next size up. A couple of hundred bucks for skis is peanuts in relative terms.

post #36 of 47
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Compared to everything else you are spending, skis are cheap. Just get the ones the coach wants her on and try them. If they are too big she can run them next year. Or the year after. Too small? Chalk it up as a learning experience and get the next size up. A couple of hundred bucks for skis is peanuts in relative terms.



This sounds feasable enough, thanks.

 

post #37 of 47

Total side-point, but:

 

I think normal coaching practice is not to have J6s, or even J5s, try to clear gates. My understanding is that it's much more likely to create technical problems than to do anything good. They generally train (or sometimes race) with brushes or stubbies. If they do run slalom through full gates, they generally go around them.

 

As is the case with a number of things, trying to get a small kid to do things like an adult (or even a big kid) often does more harm than good.

post #38 of 47

For pictures of stubbies (in case you don't know what they are) click here.

 

For pictures of even tamer brushes, click here.

 

 

post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

For pictures of stubbies (in case you don't know what they are) click here.

 

For pictures of even tamer brushes, click here.

 

 



I clicked the link and my friend Montana is pictured there. 3rd row down. Weird.

post #40 of 47

Go with the coach his job is to make her a better racer. The only caution is what ski does the coach rep?

post #41 of 47

I am in a similar situation... having a young "above average...young skier" ...7 years old daughter, getting tugged in Park-Pipe Free-Ski and Alpine Dev...by coaches...every weekend, vacation, day off of school in spent training, 6-8 hours a day, no break...no fun...just training...

 

It is tough not fall into the trap as a parent of being psycho...when it comes to your kids... 

 

I have a bit of perspective, as I have coached Elite Football QB's, ages 9-20 years old for over 15 years... and those parents are way psycho...

 

My wife and I have toned down our approach, and have started to listen to our kid a bit more...this season... the kid has skied 50 plus days with a private coach since she was 5 years old, and to tell the truth, it was ridiculous on our part... we have started to implement "free time, fun ski with friends, at the end of each day, for 1-2 hours.." and her skiing is getting better, because she is having fun again...

 

I would say listen to the coach, but try to be the "calm force for your daughter, not the "hammer", all her coaches, sponsor's, and team, will be the hammer, and she will need a shoulder to cry on, a hand to high five, and a parent to calm any situation...you guys (parents) need to make sure she is reminded that she is 8 years old, and not a "product"

 

 

post #42 of 47

Good post Parkmonkey! We were really fortunate in that our coaches when we were young emphasized a lot of free skiing mileage. They didn't feel that technical issues were well addressed in the gates. They wanted us to be comfortable skiing all conditions and slopes first. The also gave us the powder bug that's lasted a lifetime for many of us. If there's a way to judge the success of any jr. program, it's how many of its' kids are still actively involved in the sport decades on down the road.

post #43 of 47

The USSA actually has an official "Development Pipeline" that very much does not call for or encourage heavy training and intensity on the part of young kids.

 

For a 6-9 year old, what it calls for:

 

"Youth participants learn athletic coordination, balance, and agility while continuing to develop overall strength, flexibility, speed and basic fitness. The importance of teamwork and fair play are learend. Fun continues to be the major focus.

 

"Free skiing and recreational racing is an option with an emphasis on participation and fun."

 

And that's the program that's recommended by the organization that's responsible for developing (eventually) the racers who will be most successful on the World Cup and in the Olympics.

 

Unfortunately, some clubs and coaches (and maybe more parents) apparently don't get it.

 

http://archive.ussa.org/magnoliaPublic/dms/documents/2008-09/AlpinePipeline_v3.pdf
 

 

 

post #44 of 47


Quote:

Originally Posted by ski-parent View Post

Since she's 5, it's her 4th season of skiing...

Does slalom gate fobia end with time and distance or do we have to do something special?

cheers 

ski-parent,

Clearly you've touched on a much larger issue than just "which size skis for my 8 year old?" in this thread.

Epic's advice is good on the skis.

 

There is controversy here over race programs.

A lot of the things that get done are in the opinion of many, way beyond reason, and actually do not contribute to making a better skier.

Great racers may or may not be real good, ie winning races when they're young. There are both types who make it.

 

Many consider the following detrimental to young, J5's certainly, development.

  • Slalom courses with breakaway gates. - Just increases fear, kids are rarely close enough to efficiently cross block, so they rotate the whole body, their bodies are just not heavy enough anyway. Really, they should be skiing brushie courses instead as has been suggested.
  • Speed suits. Kids skiing in speed suits when it's 0deg F outside. They freeze, their muscles don't work well, for what? To look like racers.
  • Setting courses on overly steep terrain. Promotes defensive skiing.
  • Excessive gate training. Kids are just learning to ski, and haven't developed the skills. You really learn tactics in gates, not technique as much. One can't think of both when the gates are coming at you. - applies to most levels actually.

 

A lot of things get done just because of the culture of racing is like a style. People do things because it's part of the culture.

Bode Miller won junior nationals on recreation skis that were considered "cheater" or "not real" skis at the time. That changed quickly.

So, sure, there is plenty of "overthinking" here on the subject.
 

Best wishes for your daughter's endeavor though!

Quote:
Originally Posted by parkmonkey View Post

I am in a similar situation... having a young "above average...young skier" ...7 years old daughter, getting tugged in Park-Pipe Free-Ski and Alpine Dev...by coaches...every weekend, vacation, day off of school in spent training, 6-8 hours a day, no break...no fun...just training...

 

It is tough not fall into the trap as a parent of being psycho...when it comes to your kids... 

 

I have a bit of perspective, as I have coached Elite Football QB's, ages 9-20 years old for over 15 years... and those parents are way psycho...

 

My wife and I have toned down our approach, and have started to listen to our kid a bit more...this season... the kid has skied 50 plus days with a private coach since she was 5 years old, and to tell the truth, it was ridiculous on our part... we have started to implement "free time, fun ski with friends, at the end of each day, for 1-2 hours.." and her skiing is getting better, because she is having fun again...

 

I would say listen to the coach, but try to be the "calm force for your daughter, not the "hammer", all her coaches, sponsor's, and team, will be the hammer, and she will need a shoulder to cry on, a hand to high five, and a parent to calm any situation...you guys (parents) need to make sure she is reminded that she is 8 years old, and not a "product"

icon14.gif
 

 

post #45 of 47
Thread Starter 

Dear Tod:

Dear Parkmonkey,

 

Thanks for your comments and answers. With yours and prior users' comments, I came to the understanding that; There are much issues to be addressed before diving into technical issues (like canadian parent books say)

 

Acctually, as parents in our Club, we are realist and do not expect the unreachable. We know that our kids will not be Vonns, Mancusos or Reiches of future. the best they will do is to participate in an international race and just to be able to finish it. But our problem is to overthink it (not in just ski or sport, it's in every aspect of life maybe). But thanks to your comments, at least for skiing, I will help my daughter to participate in more fun promising events and situations, instead of full-day gate training and racing... and I 'll also consolidate what you all said here and share with my club to re-address some issues mostly for young ones' training and education... (by the way, our club site is http://www.akutkarsporlari.org )

 

Cheers

 

 

 

post #46 of 47

8 years old. as a x-coach put your money and time into a explosive start. you will get faster time and she will be smoking the boys times. any good ski with THE RIGHT WAX 

post #47 of 47
Is you daughter training SL with full length poles on the gates, or short poles (stubbies)? Where I live, children train more or less exclusively with stubbies for SL until at least 10 years old.
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