look pivot heel lift

when i flex forward in my boots, there's some movement in the heel of my new look pivot 14 bindings, allowing the heel to come up by what looks like 3-4mm!    the tension of the binding does not return the boot downward, but my body weight does.  i double-checked the forward pressure, and it''s good, and the binding isn't moving on the ski at all.  this is just movement in the heel piece alone.  the movement comes from the joint in the center of the picture, connecting the turntable to the adjustable connector arm things, rotating upward, allowing the heel of the boot to come upward too.  the shop says this is normal with these bindings... is this true!? 

this shows the heel settled (standing upright):

this shows the heel lifted (flexing forward):

i've done some pretty extensive googling on these bindings and forward pressure, and the indicator on the back is all i come up with.  also, in the manual that comes with the bindings, there are installation instructions which indicate that all you do after mounting the bindings is adjust the forward pressure using the 2 arms that connect the floating heel piece to the turntable, per the indicator on the back.  is there another step/process i'm missing?  i'm not by any means an expert, but i've been adjusting/maintaining my own bindings for decades (including many previous pivot models), and would at least like to give it a shot before bringing them into a new shop, for self-sufficiency's sake.

thanks for checking.  i assume your forward pressure indicator is lining up correctly? 

i don't know about their certifications, but they're the biggest ski shop in the area, and are a rossi/dstar/look dealer.  granted i'm in NJ, which isn't much of a skiing area, so i'm obviously not dealing with the foremost expert on the subject. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mudfoot 

FWIW, I just checked my Pivot 14s and do not appear to get any heel lift whatsoever.

 

From the picture it looks like when your heel does lift your brake goes down to almost level with the base of your ski.  Were your bindings installed by a Certified Look/Rossi mechanic?

if any more specific pictures are needed, let me know.  as i lift the heel, the "connecting arms" (i'm using this term referring to the arms that connect the turntable to the floating heel piece) are angling more upward via the joint at the sides of the turntable.  because of this joint, a lifting force on the heel is converted into rearward force against the forward pressure spring in the turntable, which when compressed, further allows the heel to lift.  even adding additional forward pressure does not alleviate the issue.  it almost looks like a compatibility issue... like maybe the heel of my boot is ~3mm too thin, causing the floating rear piece to sit lower than it would like to, not allowing it to correctly apply forward pressure at the heel? 

thanks.  i'll try the method described in your first link when i get home and report back.  i'm hoping i can shorten the arms significantly without ending up with excessive forward pressure.  physics would tell me that given the play in the heel currently, i should be able to shorten the arms without any appreciable increase in forward pressure (and this link confirms this concept), but when i was trying this earlier, i gave up, because i was focused on appeasing the forward pressure indicator. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wade 

I'm not sure if your issue is related to forward pressure, but regarding the forward pressure adjustment on FKS / Pivot bindings, the consenus seems to be that the tab is an unreliable indicator that forwrd pressure is adjusted correctly.  Here are a couple of links that discuss additional checks / adjustments for correct forward pressure:

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/182012-Rossignol-FKS-180

 

http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php/39702-Old-School-Look-ZR-(P18)-heel-adjustment

 

 

 

 

thanks for the help, guys.  the forward pressure was set WAY too low at the shop.  the indicator on the back is not a good way to adjust forward pressure.  after tightening the connecting arms by 8 clicks each (4 full turns each), the slop is gone and the binding feels MUCH better.  the sweet spot turned out to be in the middle of the "center" band on the connecting arms, which tells me that this may be a better starting point for setting forward pressure than the indicator at the back (assuming your bindings were mounted at the exact BSL you're using).  the end result of shortening the connecting arms by about 4mm is that the forward pressure indicator now shows about 2mm too much forward pressure, but i'm pretty confident they're now set up correctly.  i'll be skiing on them this weekend, so we'll see.

thanks everyone!

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschick 

You paid a shop to mount the bindings and they didn't do a calibrated release test?

based on how the binding works (the way angular tension is applied to the heel-piece with the linear forward pressure spring in the turntable), i think it's possible (or at least conceivable) that they did a release test.  even with the vertical play, the forward pressure was reasonable, so at least lateral releases of the toe and heel should have been in the right ballpark.  in the end i got my money back and a free wax.  won't be returning to that shop.  i skied on them last weekend.  i manufactured one fall to test them and was pleased with the retention/release.  i also had a moderate-speed crash where one ski released and the other didn't; i thought this was the correct result, given the nature of the crash.  i'll be in VT next weekend where i'll have them checked by a better shop.