First Time Ski Advice

Welcome to Epic and skiing. I would recommend that you take a group lesson early and then see how you're doing after that. If you're making decent progress, you might want to take another lesson in the afternoon - many areas will give you a break on the afternoon lesson if you're taken the morning lesson. My guess is that you'll do just fine. No doubt you'll be renting gear(hope you didn't buy skis and boots), so pay close attention to the boots they give you. If the boots feel comfortable, ask to try the next smaller size, if those still feel comfortable ask again for the next smaller size. When you finally get to one that jams your toes into the end, go back to previous boot. You want the boots to be snug like a well fitting glove, but not painfully tight. Wear a thin pair of ski socks, either synthetic or merino wool, absolutely no cotton. And make sure you have a helmet, packed snow on beginner runs can be hard as concrete. Have fun.

Novos.  When the Beginner Forum was started here on Epic a few years ago.  Some very knowledgable and experieenced skiers submitted info/articles/thread on the question you are asking. Clic up Beginners Forum, go backwards to the beginning of topic and there is a good quanity of info on your question and some you haven't thought of yet.   Welcome to Epic and good luck and have fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novos 

No I haven't purchased anything I was actually planning to rent from a Ski-Stop right by my house before I went up. I didn't want to waste the time doing the rental when I get up there. From what I remember it wasted a lot of time when I rented up at the mountain.

 

I'm only going to be up there for the 1 day this time so I didn't really want to spend the entire day taking lessons. Also taking multiple lessons can get on the expensive side. 

 

I was a little worried about taking the beginner group class because I feel like they are going to spend a lot of time on the extreme basics. Like hey this is how you put on your ski for 20 min. That's why i was thinking about the private lesson which is quite a bit more expensive.

 

thanks for all of the help.

Good idea on renting equipment from a local store that can spend some time making sure you're in the right size boot (which isn't even closely related to your shoe size).

If you haven't ever had skis on your feet before, then your instructor will probably spend some time going over fairly "trivial" stuff -- like walking when your feet are suddenly five feet long, how to stand in ski boots, how to get in and out of ski bindings, how to stand up from a fall, etc.  Maybe some of it will seem like "well, duh" to you, but a good instructor should be able to keep things moving.

I'd recommend sticking with a group lesson though, at least for the first couple times.  As you noticed, privates are expensive and unless you know exactly what you're trying to "fix", they're probably not worthwhile.
 

Good advice so far.  Every ski area has beginner group lessons on their bunny hill that are not very pricey.  Take advantage of these, it'll get you started.

Hopefully, you'll be grouped with the never-evers, so you'll be starting from the ground floor.  You'll learn the snowplow to slow down, and then the wedge turn to change direction.  My advice is to not spend much time perfecting these two maneuvers since your immediate next step should be to move on to more useful techniques (parallel skiing) - what you learn in lesson 1 is enough to get you chops where you can get off the bunny hill and have some kind of control as you develop the "real" techniques.  These will come in lessons 2-5 (approximately) after which time you're probably ready to be done with group lessons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novos 

Well i'm trying to "fix" being a noob .

 

That's a pretty generic problem, so a generic solution (i.e. a group lesson) makes the most sense.  No point paying extra for customized instruction when the commodity item will do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt 

Good advice so far.  Every ski area has beginner group lessons on their bunny hill that are not very pricey.  Take advantage of these, it'll get you started.

I don't know Hunter in particular, but a lot of places also have ticket-rental-lesson packages that are really cheap.  It still might be cheaper to rent skis off-mountain and buy a ticket and lesson separately, though.  One advantage of renting at the mountain is that if you discover that your boots are horrible when actually skiing, you can do something about it right there.

I generally recommend group lessons to people just starting out.  A private lesson CAN be better, but it's a LOT more expensive.  What you're really getting from a never-ever lesson is guided practice on the basic moves.  The biggest advantage of a private beginner lesson is that it can move at your pace.  So if you're, say, an extremely athletic ice skater or something like that, you might get more out of a private lesson than an average person who's never skied before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novos 

First off, hello I am new to Epicski. 

 

I am planning to go Skiing for the first time this coming weekend (weather permitting)  

 

This is the misconception most people have, that we need a snowstorm.

I've skied the Catskills twice already and the conditions were good, due to the snow gun snow.

For your first day on skis, now is the perfect time, because fewer people go skiing due to thinking there's "no snow," and so you have less pressure and anxiety, fewer people in your group lesson, a relaxed atmosphere, plenty of space.

First day on skis after a big snowstorm on a weekend?  Not my idea of fun.  Way too hectic and crowded.  

Go now and enjoy!  Even better, take a weekday off from work and go.  

1) You are correct that thaw-freeze cycles tend to cause firm conditions, but go anyway.  If you wait for perfect conditions in the Northeast, you'll never ski.

2) The beginning snowboard move is to jam the board sideways and slide on your heels.  You can do the same thing on skis, but it's called side-slipping (a good tool to have in your bag of tricks, but not something that you want to use on a regular basis).  The snowplow is something different - it allows you to slow down and steer at the same time.  Again, don't spend too much time perfecting the snowplow as you want to transition to more effective techniques.

3) Your proficiency at skating should help a lot.  Advanced skiing is all about using your edges, and you already know how to do that because you know how to skate. Find a flat spot and try skating on your skis - it's a great exercise (one prominent author describes it as the "ultimate exercise" for skiing).  The first thing you'll notice is that you can't skate with your weight on the tails of your skis - you have to get your weight forward to skate.  This is good. 

I'm pretty sure some people on here from the mid-Atlantic ski there.  You might try the Resorts or 'Get-Together' forums.

RE: Blue Mountain:

Well, where do you live? It's about 15 mi. north of Allentown, near where I-78 crosses the PA turnpike. If you're in central or north Jersey it's pretty easy (about 80 min. from my house just north of Philly). Camelback and Jack Frost-BigBoulder might be close too, or even Elk.

Just keep in mind that every place is going to be crowded this weekend. It's finally going to get colder and there will be snow in NE PA and the Catskills, and it's MLK weekend. So if you're going to take the advice about renting on the hill so that you can exchange boots if needed, get started early. The rental lines and ticket lines will be brutal, so renting from a local shop ahead of time may be a good idea. And being in a lesson group will help with liftlines.  

I'm not the Ambassador, but I can probably answer any questions about Blue.

A number of people who post here  ski Blue on a regular basis.  I've skied it a few times myself.

Blue suffers from being too far south, at too low an elevation so the snow tends to be poor quality.  And it's proximity to Philly makes for big crowds.  I can't say I'd recommend it for a first-timer on a weekend, especially this year.  The green trail, Burma Road, is probably the scariest trail I've ever been on - elbow to elbow with people who can't ski, downed skiers & snowboarders sprawled everywhere, narrow, and lots of hairpin turns.

I'd say that if you're in striking distance of  Blue, you should go to Jack Frost instead.  JF has much better snow quality (higher elevation, farther north, fewer crowds, no night skiing which allows the snow to "rest") smaller crowds and more beginner-friendly terrain. 

In any case, if you think Hunter and Blue are your only two options, you should do a bit more research on what's available. For  instance:

http://www.skitown.com/resortguide/statemap.cfm/pa/Pennsylvania

and

http://www.skitown.com/resortguide/statemap.cfm/ny/NewYork

On your way to Hunter, you will be passing (I assume you will be coming from NYC) Belleayre and Windham. Belleayre is said to be a good alternative to Hunter as it's not as crowded (I don't know how many runs they have open right now though).

P.S. I live in Brooklyn. For a day trip, my first choice would be either Hunter or Belleayre. Now, if you are willing to drive somewhere and stay overnight (leave very early in the morning, drive to resort and ski half day, relax, sleep, ski full day and drive back) - it opens up a whole bunch of very nice resorts in VT (or Gore/Whiteface in upstate NY).

Well, it probably wouldn't be Hunter.  Hunter has a rep for being really crowded and full of type A people.  Never been there myself, but I have been to the allegedly less crowded and more laid-back Wyndham and that was enough for me.

Anyway, there are really two questions here.  1) Where should you go to as a first time skier and 2) Where should you go on a regular basis once you become proficient.

To answer question 1, having only been to a handful of the hills in your area (Wyndham, Belleayre, Blue, Camelback, Jack Frost, Big Boulder, Spring Mountain, Bear Creek) I'm hardly an exhaustive resource.  Of these, I'd say Jack Frost or Belleayre would be best for a first time outing.  Both have a fair amount of easy terrain, and some steeper stuff too once you get your chops together.  The others are either farther from you or not really suitable.  I've heard good things about Shawnee for the beginner skier, but haven't been.  There's at least another dozen choices, perhaps others can chime in.

For 2) all I can say is cross that bridge when you come to it. Try a bunch and go back to the ones you like and eventually you'll develop favorites.  Nobody can tell you what you're going to like.   I sampled about 25 "local" resorts before finding my home hill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt 

Well, it probably wouldn't be Hunter.  Hunter has a rep for being really crowded and full of type A people. 

I would not be so negative towards Hunter. Yes it is crowded and yes, it probably has some type A people (I'm yet to meet them there though), but... given this year's weather, Hunter would probably be better then anything near by - it is after all "the snow making capitol of the world"...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novos 

Just wanted to post an update after having tried skiing on Saturday. I'll start off with the good.. Skiing is tons of fun and I seem to have much more natural ability for skiing than I ever did for snowboarding. I ended up doing a group lesson which only had one other person in it so it was almost like a cheap private lesson. The instructor was great and I feel like I learned a lot. I feel like if I ski a few more times I will easily blow away my snowboarding ability.

 

Now for the bad.. Ski boots I absolutely hate ski boots. My feet were killing me the whole time which actually ended up making me cut the day a little short. I realize these are rentals and probably didn't have a great fit but when I was returning the rentals I went over to the boot fitter and he had me try on a bunch of different boots none of which felt very good at all. I had a great time skiing but i'm afraid I may have to go back to snowboarding just because I can't handle ski boots. Also walking in ski boots sucks which isn't a deal breaker just kind of annoying.

 

Thank you all for your advice.

 

 

I'm not sure what sort of selection the rental place has.  That is, different boots have volume differences in varying places -- i.e., some are for wide feet, some have room for "high" feet, different lengths, different toe widths, etc.  Trying to jam a high volume foot into a low volume boot is a recipe for agony (as you found out)  If you're buying boots, than a good bootfitter can work wonders with the plastic to accommodate your foot.

Note that ski boots are meant to be snug, much snugger than any other shoe you'll ever have on your foot.  There will be pressure in places you've probably never felt pressure before.  At the beginning of every season I wonder how I could possibly stand being in my ski boots the season before, and then my feet get used to it again.

That's a good point.  If your feet were already sore, then anything more snug than a bedroom slipper is probably going to hurt.  I'd say wait a few days and give it another try.  What do you have to lose?

Boot fitting is a very tricky and extensive art, and there is an entire forum on here dedicated to it. I can't even describe to you the massive gap there is between how a rental boot feels and how your own, properly fit boot feels. Not only is a personal boot selected as the right 'type' of boot, it is usually then fitted to your foot even further. This includes a custom footbed, which is molded to your foot. Also frequently included is liner and shell adjustments, where those pressure points in the boot are stretched out and molded more to your foot. I had to do an instructor's clinic in rental boots once (that was part of the clinic, literally putting ourselves in the beginner's shoes). I swear, my feet have never hurt more than they did that day. My feet were in such excruciating pain that I just wanted to jump out of them and cut my feet off. Also, ski boots tend to hurt a lot more when you are standing around in them. They're specifically designed to ski in, so when you're just standing (like in a beginner lesson), it can be pretty rough.

All that being said, ski boots are never going to be as comfortable as street shoes, or even as comfortable as snowboard boots. Personally fit boots make it bearable, but walk into any ski instructor or ski patrol locker room at the end of any day, and the loudest sound are the sighs of relief as everybody peels off their boots. But since skiing is so epically awesome, we put up with the minor discomfort. Besides, when you're really ripping, there is no pain.

If your ski boots make your feet hurt, then:

you are skiing in race boots, or

the boots aren't buckled correctly, or

they don't fit your feet.

Those are the only three options.   I can put my boots on at 8:30am and take them off at 4pm and my feet are fine.  I bought the correct size boot and the fit was refined by Brent Amsbury which included cooking the Intuition liners, making custom footbeds and aligning the cuffs with my lower legs.

Go to the "Ask the Boot Guys" forum and read the wikis about fitting and terminology.  If a shop doesn't do a shell fit, they don't know how to fit boots and you are better off going somewhere else. If  you want to stick with skiing, check the "Who's Who" in the boot forum for a fitter near you and go see that person.   But, just remember that ski boots are made for skiing, not for walking.  You might want to look at AT boots because many of them have a "walk" mode which is supposed to help.  

Novos,  Welcome to skiing!  Glad you had a good experience (except for the boots) your first time out!  Skiing is addictive and you have already discovered the most important piece of equipment in skiing is your boots.  If you decide to continue with skiing your first and most important decision is to purchase your own boots and have them fit properly by a competent boot fitter!  Ask around or ask here in the "Ask a bootfitter" forum to find the best reputable boot fitter in your area and trust their advice.  There is absolutely no reason why you can not be totally comfortable in your own ski boots!  Pain is NOT a prerequisite for ski boots!  Save your budget on skis and purchase a used pair or less expensive models and splurge on a better pair of boots and footbeds and possibly alignment work if you need it as proper alignment of the fixed angles created by your equipment can have a huge affect on your advancement!

good luck!

When I first hired boots  they put me in 26.5 and the pain was bad,  I went back to shop and they gave me 27.5 and the pain was gone.   I skied for many years in this size.

I then went to buy my first pair and the boot fitter said I was 26.5,  I told him my story but he insisted 26.5 was right for me and skiing a 27.5 is too big with too much foot movement,   his promise was he would make 26.5 fit!!!!

First time  = so much pain,  unbearable,  adjustments made.   still unbearable  but diff spot.  adjustments made. now bearable but still pain and sking with boots virtually unbuckled.

more adjustment,  much better and occassionally need to undo a buckle going up toe ropes on really hard packed snow.

But skiing has really improved with less foot movement within the boots.

I dont think everybody suffers as bad,  my arch is high which made the top of boot cut of blood to my feet.  This created a numb foot but also a pain through your feet and legs similat to someone tightening a vice on it,  and then hitting you with a big hammer. 

Point to this is,  if the boot just fits of the shelf no pain anywhere ther is a good chance it is too big.  

second point,  if your buying new boots  make sure you buy from some one who has an outlet or link to a bootfitter on the mountain you are going to,  so you can get adjustment done while your on holidays.

Richo