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Would these turns sell in the US of A?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Where I come from this would be considered very good skiing, with good demonstrations of toppling into the turn followed by good range of motion into the counter tip. Also there are well coordinated and parallel positions of the inside and outside halves of the body, and a strong recentering movement of the hips up and forward at the transition. I'm not especially keen on the dearth of pole taps/touches but in general I consider this outstanding skiing. However, my question is if one skied like this in a PSIA cert 3, trainers or examiners exam when asked to demonstrate medium and short radius turns, would it be well received according to the PSIA playbook? Explain yourself.

 

post #2 of 29

Well received? Absolutely!

 

Examples from the Visual Cues To Effective Skiing...

 

Balance and stance

- The inside leg shortens as the outside leg lengthens setting up alignment and balance with weight on the outside ski

- The upper body remains more vertical than the lower body throughout the shaping and finishing phases of the turn

 

Edging

- The edges are released and re-engaged in one smooth smooth movement

- Both skis tip the same amount in the turn with the strongest angles developing in or near the fall line

 

Rotary

- The skier's legs turn underneath a strong/stable torso to help guide the skis through the turns

- The skis are tipped and turned an appropriate amount to create a smooth C-shaped arc

 

Pressure

- The skis flow evenly and smoothly over the terrain, aided by the skiers joints working together to manage the ski-snow interaction

- The skis bend progressively throughout the turn, with the entire length engaged.

 

All of these cues and more can be seen in this skier's skiing.

post #3 of 29

I think it would pass L3 no question. but it could be better.

post #4 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

I think it would pass L3 no question. but it could be better.



Failure to follow instructions: "Explain yourself."

 

post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgert View Post



Failure to follow instructions: "Explain yourself."

 



its passes because of the points Rusty said.

 

It could be better because the extension he is using is making it nearly impossible to bend the ski quickly and high in the turn. PSIA likes extension turns I do not as a default movement pattern. 

post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

I think it would pass L3 no question. but it could be better.


Yes, explain yourself. I'd say that was some mighty fine skiing. Could you provide a clip of what you'd like to see?

post #7 of 29

The Instructor is on PERFECTLY groomed wide open Blue runs with Perfect Snow.

 

He is on Slalom skis,  I see lazy transitions, hand, sholder getting lazy on some turns.

 

Not reall finishing a turn,  he could hold the ack much longer load and transition with much more athority

 

Mea,  really not impressed.

 

post #8 of 29

Definitely good enough for L3. To make it better I'd want to see better pressure management, get more at the top of the turn. Work on that inside half too.

 

Is that two different guys, btw?

post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


Yes, explain yourself. I'd say that was some mighty fine skiing. Could you provide a clip of what you'd like to see?



this 8 year is managing pressure better between turns than the first skier he is then able to tip and pressure the ski more than the Eruo carve video

 

 

 

post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Definitely good enough for L3. To make it better I'd want to see better pressure management, get more at the top of the turn. Work on that inside half too.

 

Is that two different guys, btw?



It is at least six different guys.

 


Edited by georgert - 1/4/12 at 6:31pm
post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

Definitely good enough for L3. To make it better I'd want to see better pressure management, get more at the top of the turn. Work on that inside half too.

 

Is that two different guys, btw?



guy with white helmet is much better at managing pressure.

post #12 of 29

Would definitely pass L3 and based on what I know about PSIA, I think they would really like this skiing. I think Rusty explained it pretty thoroughly from a PSIA perspective.

 

The snow looks good to me.

 

Is this the Italians?


Edited by HeluvaSkier - 1/4/12 at 6:21pm
post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



guy with white helmet is much better at managing pressure.



There is more than one guy in a white helmet.

post #14 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT View Post

The Instructor is on PERFECTLY groomed wide open Blue runs with Perfect Snow.

 

He is on Slalom skis,  I see lazy transitions, hand, sholder getting lazy on some turns.

 

Not reall finishing a turn,  he could hold the ack much longer load and transition with much more athority

 

Mea,  really not impressed.

 


It's several different skiers.  Why is it so difficult for people to acknowledge strong skiing? If you saw any of these guys on your local hill, they'd stand out very clearly.

 

post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


It's several different skiers.  Why is it so difficult for people to acknowledge strong skiing? If you saw any of these guys on your local hill, they'd stand out very clearly.

 



I never said it wasnt strong skiing. it is but there are better at my local hill.

post #16 of 29

He looks so stiff.  Especially his upper body.  I'm no instructor, but if this is PSIA-perfect, there's something missing.  I know the OP wanted specifics from the instructor community, but this video just screams "stiff technician preparing for instructor test."  Maybe someone with more technical knowledge can better express this.  Or maybe they'll just disagree with me.

 

He is a really good skier, but I'd rather ski with the Buey kid in the other video.

post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post

He looks so stiff.  Especially his upper body.  I'm no instructor, but if this is PSIA-perfect, there's something missing.  I know the OP wanted specifics from the instructor community, but this video just screams "stiff technician preparing for instructor test."  Maybe someone with more technical knowledge can better express this.  Or maybe they'll just disagree with me.

 

But he is a really good skier.



Replace "he is" with "they are." (grammar police)

 

post #18 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post

Would definitely pass L3 and based on what I know about PSIA, I think they would really like this skiing. I think Rusty explained it pretty thoroughly from a PSIA perspective.

 

The snow looks good to me.

 

Is this the Italians?


Italian National Demonstration Ski Team.
 

 

post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgert View Post





Replace "he is" with "they are." (grammar police)

 



 

OK, so they are stiff-looking etc...  Not really a grammar mistake, just a misreading of the video.  The fact that all these guys ski exactly alike kind of reinforces my point.  A little stiff.


Edited by hirustler - 1/4/12 at 6:50pm
post #20 of 29

The fact that most couldn't see the small differences in movement patterns, stance width, inside ski edge angle, etc... that tells you this is several skiers speaks volumes about the lack of our collective ability to evaluate high level skiing. Harsh truth. Sorry.  I'm sure these guys handle crud, powder, and even gates just fine. I'd even guess that there's an ex-national alpine team member in this bunch as well.


Edited by markojp - 1/4/12 at 7:22pm
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post

The fact that all these guys ski exactly alike kind of reinforces my point.  


They don't. Look more carefully. Similar outcomes, but by no means exactly alike.

 

post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



I never said it wasnt strong skiing. it is but there are better at my local hill.


 I'm sure there are if the 8 year old is your base line.

 

post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


 I'm sure there are if the 8 year old is your base line.

 


never said the 8 year old was my base line, just an example of 'better" skiing.

 

I see the top Collegiete racers, some very high end instructors and just plain ripping public ski everyday.

 

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 

I see the top Collegiete racers, some very high end instructors and just plain ripping public ski everyday.

 


There are great skiers at almost any mountain in the world. You seem a little defensive of the skiing on your home mountain. None of this is to say that you don't have great skiers, only to acknowledge really nice skiing when and where we see it. The more interesting question might be to ask which of the skiers in the first video do you identify with, because they really are different. Like these two:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THXhGek-3TA&feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br3NtWBFgcI

 

post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post


There are great skiers at almost any mountain in the world. You seem a little defensive of the skiing on your home mountain. None of this is to say that you don't have great skiers, only to acknowledge really nice skiing when and where we see it. The more interesting question might be to ask which of the skiers in the first video do you identify with, because they really are different. Like these two:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THXhGek-3TA&feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br3NtWBFgcI

 

 

The second guy shown when the helmet is better

 

to Lindsey or Julia how about Maria...

 


 

 

post #26 of 29

If these guys are the demo team, presumably they are demo-ing something. 

Sure enough, if you click through on You-Tube you see related videos for levels 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

Terminology is too specialized for the on-line automated translation engines to give useful results, so I'm not sure what the levels are.

Guessing from a quick view of the vids: 3 - skidded turns, 4, 5 carved turns with less and more angulation, 6 short swing, 7 seems to be the first one with retraction turns.

post #27 of 29

It is pretty worrying that people couldn't see that there is a selection of skiers in that video, movement patterns aside, there is a good number of different ski/helmet/goggle setups too. 

 

As to the original question, I would guess that from what I have seen of the PSIA, this would be well received at exam. I know a few examiners/trainers who ski worse. It's clean, dynamic skiing. I personally don't like the extension at the start of the turn, and think some of those guys have got some pretty ugly A frames and poor pressure management going on, especially on the first section. Still a notch above level 3 though. 

 

For the other debates going on - Is an 8 year old better than the Italian demo team? I doubt it. Are there good skiers at Stowe? Probably yes, but what does that have to do with anything?

post #28 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim. View Post

It is pretty worrying that people couldn't see that there is a selection of skiers in that video, movement patterns aside, there is a good number of different ski/helmet/goggle setups too. 

 

There is a DVD party game called SceneIt.  It plays a clip from a movie or TV show, and then asks a trivia question about the movie.  One that this reminds me of... a scene with an argument at a dinner party.  I'm listening to the dialogue, paying attention to who talks, trying to remember whatever I know about the movie, etc.  The question -- "How many empty chairs were lined up on the back wall?"

 

 

Or the old basketball player in the gorilla suit experiment.
 

 

post #29 of 29

Very good skiers. They are demonstrating what it takes to be a level 7 in in the Italian system. I´m sure they can ski in many other ways as well. 

Pretty sure there are some ex racers here.

It actually surprised me a bit because the Italian skiing I remember from Interski last year was not that impressive.

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