CMH Avalanche Fatality at Revelstoke Yesterday (12-30-11)?

http://www.canadianmountainholidays.com/

That area seems to see a lot of avalanches, also sees a lot of traffic. 

This has been a bad week in the British Columbia back country.  A Whistler ski patroller was killed in a bc avalanche near Pemberton. A slide at Revelstoke Mountain Resort was triggered out of bounds with the debris field entering the Greely Bowl which is in bounds, with no one injured. A slide at Kicking Horse, just out of bounds, I think, with one person rescued and no other reports of injury.

In addition the Trans Canada Highway was closed for avy control both east and west of Revelstoke this week as well as a fatal MVA west of Revy this week.

All this in addition to the already mentioned CMH fatality kinda makes me glad I`m not a bc skier.

Why is CMH so reluctant to just simply say that there was a skier triggered avalanche, instead of the convoluted phrasing they forced into an explanation: ....there was an avalanche....the avalanche occurred with eleven people....focused on safety for 48 years.....

Either wait until the facts are in to write the letter to the customers and mountain users and then convey the story objectively or write a letter that doesn't require spinning the facts.

Condolences to the victims family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

Why is CMH so reluctant to just simply say that there was a skier triggered avalanche... 

 

It is called spin, and P.R. 

As each region gets it's base, it's going to be very sketch for a while due to all the old rotten sugar snow and icy crust laying on the ground. Careful everyone when it finally comes and you're so stoked to rip it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

As each region gets it's base, it's going to be very sketch for a while due to all the old rotten sugar snow and icy crust laying on the ground. Careful everyone when it finally comes and you're so stoked to rip it up.

Good, point. I wouldn't doubt we see avalanches rip all the way to the dirt this year. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

Why is CMH so reluctant to just simply say that there was a skier triggered avalanche, instead of the convoluted phrasing they forced into an explanation: ....there was an avalanche....the avalanche occurred with eleven people....focused on safety for 48 years.....

 

Either wait until the facts are in to write the letter to the customers and mountain users and then convey the story objectively or write a letter that doesn't require spinning the facts.

 

Condolences to the victims family.

 

 

I read that last night before I posted it and didn't see anything wrong. Read it again after seeing your post and I still don't. Do you know something about it that CMH doesn't? How do you know that it was skier-triggered? For all we know, it was triggered by a mountain goat or a meteorite. Considering that the any is being investigated by the RCMP and Coroner, it seems to me that it would be incredibly stupid for them to apportion blame anywhere prior to the completion of the investigation.

Good points and just different from what I read in the same words. But I'm not talking about blame in any case. Given the wording, I felt it was less than forthright.

Example: paraphrase: million runs with safety in mind since (some date years ago) is BS. They have not been involved in this type of risky guiding for nearly that long. Canadian guided skiing has not always been as risky as it is these days.

A skier triggered slide is not always anyone's fault either, and I didn't say it was.

And for a company that knows that much about avalanches to use such a general term, as in generic avalanche, when in fact there are many types with specific names or categorizations, is clearly them being intentionally vague and obtuse.

I'm not the least concerned with their worries about liability. Be forthright and frank or STFU, CMH.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic 

I read that last night before I posted it and didn't see anything wrong. Read it again after seeing your post and I still don't. Do you know something about it that CMH doesn't? How do you know that it was skier-triggered? For all we know, it was triggered by a mountain goat or a meteorite. Considering that the any is being investigated by the RCMP and Coroner, it seems to me that it would be incredibly stupid for them to apportion blame anywhere prior to the completion of the investigation.

 

Have they outsourced to China or something? I'm just not sure why you are reacting like this.

because of the way they wrote the article. The wording was like the early press releases of a nuclear plant leak. I think I said that pretty clearly. what would be your interest in their company? And how many friends have you lost to avalanches or helicopter crashes?  I have nothing against CMH. I have a problem with that press release. a big problem OK? am I free to feel that way, I mean in your considered opinion?

and I have to ask: why the sarcasm?  Is this another instance of a sacred cow? Or are we going to say that they take people into the BC of Canada because they just want people to have a great time? I stick by what I said: be honest or don't write an article at all.

Are you telling me you don't think they know if the avalanche was a human release or natural release? That would be a preposterous notion.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic 

Have they outsourced to China or something? I'm just not sure why you are reacting like this.

I just don't know what more you expect them to say. And if they said nothing, I'm sure there'd be talk of "why are they covering this up?". The release seemed well considered to me and was more detailed than what I expected to see. They told us the location of the any pretty precisely. They told us the magnitude of the slide, the aspect of the slope, elevation it was at, the length and the width of the slide. They told us the victim was recovered via transceiver search. Maybe they actually don't know what caused it.

...and no, I don't have any interest in CMH. I just find it odd that two seemingly reasonable individuals could read the same press-release and come to have opposite reactions to it.

According to this it was skier triggered.

Condolences to family and friends

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic 

 Do you know something about it that CMH doesn't? How do you know that it was skier-triggered? For all we know, it was triggered by a mountain goat or a meteorite.

 

It is heli skiing, of course it was skier triggered or possibly a meteorite, I could get on board with that theory. However, skier is what I'm going with, until they find the meteorite. I'm pretty sure a mountain goat had nothing to do with it, however until the RCMP questions all the goats in the area, they will remain under suspicion also. 
 

It must be bad for business when a guest dies. Imagine the groups already in the lodges going up over the next couple of days. trepidation much?

yes today  there would have been sadness and some extra checks. There always is the day after a fatality but except for the skiers close personal friends I guarantee the others still skied today. By next group it is business as usual. Second this year in B.C. but it's still early season, BE CAREFUL IN THE BACK COUNTRY    

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ske-Bum 

It is heli skiing, of course it was skier triggered or possibly a meteorite, I could get on board with that theory. However, skier is what I'm going with, until they find the meteorite. I'm pretty sure a mountain goat had nothing to do with it, however until the RCMP questions all the goats in the area, they will remain under suspicion also. 
 

 

Yes, and we all know that if there are no skiers, there are no avalanches. 

 Love these threads... the lynch mob is out. The letter, in my small mind, seemed very factual, reasonable, and truthful with the facts as they are currently known. Canada has it's procedures for investigating these type of incidents. It's often slow and frustrating, but the facts will come to light. Until then, whatever is said here is simply speculation and knee jerking. Now if I were to jerk and speculate, given the size of the slide and number of skiers involved in the search, etc... I'd guess that the deceased might have died from an impact injury, internal trauma, or the like... rather than suffocation.  Condolences to the family.  For those of you that are uncomfortable with the risks associated with backcountry skiing however it's accessed, well, there are plenty of ski areas around. But remember, there are rare cases of inbounds uncontrolled avalanches occurring. We had a doozy last season, and only by the good graces of the entity above was no one caught, hurt, or killed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic 

I just don't know what more you expect them to say. And if they said nothing, I'm sure there'd be talk of "why are they covering this up?". The release seemed well considered to me and was more detailed than what I expected to see. They told us the location of the any pretty precisely. They told us the magnitude of the slide, the aspect of the slope, elevation it was at, the length and the width of the slide. They told us the victim was recovered via transceiver search. Maybe they actually don't know what caused it.

 

...and no, I don't have any interest in CMH. I just find it odd that two seemingly reasonable individuals could read the same press-release and come to have opposite reactions to it.

Thank you for your common sense. It's always in precious short supply when these kind of things happen and the virtual world from desks afar pronounces the 'facts' and then demands satisfaction where none is ever found.
 

This from Dec 31, 2011,   the bad layers had been forming for 3 dry months. That has repercussions for months if not the whole season.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri 

As each region gets it's base, it's going to be very sketch for a while due to all the old rotten sugar snow and icy crust laying on the ground. Careful everyone when it finally comes and you're so stoked to rip it up.