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Quick read on Squats............

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

http://www.nsca-lift.org/HotTopic/download/Squat%20Depth.pdf

 

 Let the truth be known!  I'm re-certing at presnt & came across this, a lot of impact for our crowd!

 

post #2 of 29

So...what is your position in relationship to this article?   Expanding...what are your thoughts of value for "our crowd"?

post #3 of 29

I think the impact for skiers is that either ass to grass or powerlifter style squats are fine. 

post #4 of 29

This doesn't affect my programming at all, although it's nice to see. Really what this says is that quarter squats are probably the worst for the ACL (60 degree knee flexion), but that parallel or full depth squats are fine for the knees unless there is specific underlying pathology.

 

It is important to remember that he's talking about knees. Personally I only let a few of my clients squat full depth because most lack the mobility to do them properly, which I believe is problematic for the hips and low back. But no issues with it for the knees.

 

One part of the article I thought was odd was this line:

 

"Caterisano, et al. demonstrated that while average muscle activity of the GM [glute max] was not significantly different in both the partial squat (16.92 ± 8.78%) and parallel squat (28.00 ± 10.29%), it increased significantly during the full squat (35.47 ± 1.45%)"

 

How is an increase from 17 to 28 (65%) not significantly different but 28 to 35 (25%) is? 

 

 

post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post

 

One part of the article I thought was odd was this line:

 

"Caterisano, et al. demonstrated that while average muscle activity of the GM [glute max] was not significantly different in both the partial squat (16.92 ± 8.78%) and parallel squat (28.00 ± 10.29%), it increased significantly during the full squat (35.47 ± 1.45%)"

 

How is an increase from 17 to 28 (65%) not significantly different but 28 to 35 (25%) is? 

When you include the ranges (the plus-or-minus part), then the increase looks more significant.
 

 

post #6 of 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

I think the impact for skiers is that either ass to grass or powerlifter style squats are fine. 

 

For “skiers” as a whole population?  The article did not give me that type of sweeping generalization.  Without skimming it again, I believe there was some caveat within the article that allows for individual biomechanical issues preventing full swats.

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by evaino View Post

This doesn't affect my programming at all, although it's nice to see. Really what this says is that quarter squats are probably the worst for the ACL (60 degree knee flexion), but that parallel or full depth squats are fine for the knees unless there is specific underlying pathology.

 

It is important to remember that he's talking about knees. Personally I only let a few of my clients squat full depth because most lack the mobility to do them properly, which I believe is problematic for the hips and low back. But no issues with it for the knees.

 

One part of the article I thought was odd was this line:

 

"Caterisano, et al. demonstrated that while average muscle activity of the GM [glute max] was not significantly different in both the partial squat (16.92 ± 8.78%) and parallel squat (28.00 ± 10.29%), it increased significantly during the full squat (35.47 ± 1.45%)"

 

How is an increase from 17 to 28 (65%) not significantly different but 28 to 35 (25%) is? 

 

 


 

Actually, that slice of the article had me doing some head math as well until I shrug it off thinking perhaps the author interest was with the deviation scoring.  But that was probably a weak thought on my part due to lack of further intellectual curiosity questioning the conclusions made with the numbers.  Frankly, I did not read anything earth shattering in this article as it did not control the variables I would have like to have read regarding the test subjects.    

 

 

 

post #7 of 29
Thread Starter 

There are 2 lessons here for skiers:

1) a history lesson- just bc someone repeats a concept does not make it true.  How many times have you heard "never go below parallel" & everyone accepts this as gospel.  Now you know where it came from & how one study was misinterpreted.

 

2) I don't advocated that everyone start doing full squats, yet they appear much safer than we think.  Serious skiers should be involved in wt training as recent studies have shown that racers are pulling 3G's & 600n on the hill.  That is a lot more than most rec skiers ever consider training for even 1/10th of!

 

 

 

*always train w a pro for your own form/safety

post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post


It is important to remember that he's talking about knees. Personally I only let a few of my clients squat full depth because most lack the mobility to do them properly, which I believe is problematic for the hips and low back. But no issues with it for the knees.

 


 


Got lost on the math, but this part of your post caught my attention.  "Only a few", everyone in our group, generally speaking does squats - air squats and front, back as well.  Not seeing the injuries you are referring to.  We are not cautious enough, no doubt, but you mentioned that your athletes don't do back squats!  I am still amazed by this.

 

Any thoughts on mobility and screening.  Who's doing it?  I be I'd be the first one to be disqualified, but with coaching I find it to be more than ok.  It seems that with enough screening, I'd be banned from the mountain... for reasons other than my skiingeek.gif

 

post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post


Got lost on the math, but this part of your post caught my attention.  "Only a few", everyone in our group, generally speaking does squats - air squats and front, back as well.  Not seeing the injuries you are referring to.  We are not cautious enough, no doubt, but you mentioned that your athletes don't do back squats!  I am still amazed by this.

 

Any thoughts on mobility and screening.  Who's doing it?  I be I'd be the first one to be disqualified, but with coaching I find it to be more than ok.  It seems that with enough screening, I'd be banned from the mountain... for reasons other than my skiingeek.gif

 


I'm a cautious trainer, no question.

 

I believe you have mentioned that you have a bunch of back issues, haven't you? Or am I mixing you up with someone else (I know it was one of the crossfitters)? If I did get that right, then I still find it astounding that you do heavy back squats. I just don't see how you don't see the connection. 

 

Most of my clients don't squat deep but guess what - they live, play and perform without pain. There are so many alternatives to the squat for the many people who don't have the ability to do them well. I work on them with everyone, and everyone who I deem as unable to squat safely does get squat patterns in  their warmup - squat to stand, wall facing squats, lateral squats, squats with bands around the knees and hands, bottom up KB squats...but they are either unweighted or lightweight. Only those with good movement get to squat heavy. 

 

In addition to those who lack the mobility, many come to me with knee or hip or back issues. They don't get to try heavy squats for quite some time. Some never get to; others do in time. 

 

On the flipside, most of my clients do deadlift. To me that's a more accessible lift, although both require proper spotting and form. I don't tolerate the all-too-popular rounded-back deadlift.

 

By the way - I count myself in the "doesn't have the mobility for deep squats category". In my case, it's a lack of hip mobility. I used to do very heavy partial squats - 355x5 is the most I did. I train much smarter now. I haven't lost anything on the snow for my lack of heavy squatting even though I'm 10 years older now. I still lift fairly heavy, although the only squat I load relatively heavy now is the split squats (175x5 is my max so far). 

 

Deep squats are great for those who can do them well. Not so much for everyone else. 

 

That's my take.

 

Elsbeth

post #10 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post


I'm a cautious trainer, no question.

 

I believe you have mentioned that you have a bunch of back issues, haven't you? Or am I mixing you up with someone else (I know it was one of the crossfitters)? If I did get that right, then I still find it astounding that you do heavy back squats. I just don't see how you don't see the connection. 

 

Cautious relative to our gym, I guess.  Everyone heavy squats with us.  I am sure there are plenty with mobility problems too.  I might be one, but I find the back squat to be the most productive of all the lifts that I do.  Cautious v not cautious enough.  Safety should always be a concern.  Crossfit is supposed to be a supplement to my skiing.

 

Yes, I'm the one with the back issues.  Deadlifts and back squats are helpful, at least to date.  I worry about my knees.  Bad knee alignment due to hip impingement is one area of concern on all squat movements - most of all "wall balls".  My low bar back squat - no Smith or anything - is 260.  I prefer not to do 1 RM lifts too often.  I like 3 x 225#, 5 sets, better.  For me, that is a solid effort.  My dead lift 1 RM is 350# or so, but I prefer not to go much above 315#.

 

I know that you mentioned the front squat as an alternative to back squats.  I find the front squat to be one of the most risky lifts for my back in that the weight falling forward and an attempt to save the lift loads the back.  The weight sometimes draws you forward.

 

Elsbeth, I respect your input.  I certainly am no expert.  But I would say that I have more experience than a lot people.
 

 

post #11 of 29

 

No squats today, but looks like this instead?

 

post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post

Cautious relative to our gym, I guess.  Everyone heavy squats with us.  I am sure there are plenty with mobility problems too.  I might be one, but I find the back squat to be the most productive of all the lifts that I do.  Cautious v not cautious enough.  Safety should always be a concern.  Crossfit is supposed to be a supplement to my skiing.

 

Yes, I'm the one with the back issues.  Deadlifts and back squats are helpful, at least to date.  I worry about my knees.  Bad knee alignment due to hip impingement is one area of concern on all squat movements - most of all "wall balls".  My low bar back squat - no Smith or anything - is 260.  I prefer not to do 1 RM lifts too often.  I like 3 x 225#, 5 sets, better.  For me, that is a solid effort.  My dead lift 1 RM is 350# or so, but I prefer not to go much above 315#.

 

I know that you mentioned the front squat as an alternative to back squats.  I find the front squat to be one of the most risky lifts for my back in that the weight falling forward and an attempt to save the lift loads the back.  The weight sometimes draws you forward.

 

Elsbeth, I respect your input.  I certainly am no expert.  But I would say that I have more experience than a lot people.
 

 


I wonder how you'd do if you didn't squat? I would be willing to bet you would feel  100% better within a few weeks. Seriously. I don't mean to be rude with this, but it's ridiculous that you are doing heavy squats with the issues that you have. And you also have hip impingement? Hip impingement+squats of any sort = fast road to hip arthritis. 

 

as for front squats being more dangerous: you miss the point. Because you can't hold the weight if you don't have proper form, the front squat makes it impossible for you to lift more than your body can manage. If you do too much, the bar will fall forward and onto the spotter rack. In a back squat, if you don't have proper form, the bar pushes your torso forward causing more shear force on your spine. Very bad.

 

Why don't you try removing squats (front or back) from your routine for one month, replacing them with split squats (torso and shin vertical!). You will be shocked at how much less sore your back, hip and knees are. And if I'm wrong, then you've only missed 1 month of squatting.  No big deal. 

 

I promise I won't harp on this anymore - I don't want to be that person who's always bugging their friend about smoking - but honestly Paul, you're actively damaging your body when there's no reason to.  Please think about it at least. 

 

Elsbeth

post #13 of 29

I asked Kevin, one our coaches who "knows", to evaluate my squat.  He said it's real good.  He along with the rest of the coaches have helped me a lot with form.  I must admit, my squat required work.  Not sure why, but it keeps getting better.

 

As far as my hips are concerned, I already have arthritis - there and in my spine.  My experience indicates that squats help, they do not aggravate.  And the same with dead lifts for my back.  But that is by no means scientific.

 

Having said that, today I gave notice at Crossfit.  I am taking a 3 month break and intend to return in Spring.  I will be able to focus more on skiing and have more money to ski.  Funds are snug right now.  I am uncertain as to what means of conditioning will fill the gap.  I am worried about a big decline, but on the other hand this break could reveal things about my health and conditioning.  We'll see.  The fat cells are growing just thinking about no Crossfit.

 

Sorry to take over!

 

I love squats!

post #14 of 29
Thread Starter 

I too am a fan of squats, yet I see the points raised.   Front squats I do agree limit the wt to what you can manage.  

That said, they are a staple!

post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post


I'm a cautious trainer, no question.

 

I believe you have mentioned that you have a bunch of back issues, haven't you? Or am I mixing you up with someone else (I know it was one of the crossfitters)? If I did get that right, then I still find it astounding that you do heavy back squats. I just don't see how you don't see the connection. 

 

Most of my clients don't squat deep but guess what - they live, play and perform without pain. There are so many alternatives to the squat for the many people who don't have the ability to do them well. I work on them with everyone, and everyone who I deem as unable to squat safely does get squat patterns in  their warmup - squat to stand, wall facing squats, lateral squats, squats with bands around the knees and hands, bottom up KB squats...but they are either unweighted or lightweight. Only those with good movement get to squat heavy. 

 

In addition to those who lack the mobility, many come to me with knee or hip or back issues. They don't get to try heavy squats for quite some time. Some never get to; others do in time. 

 

On the flipside, most of my clients do deadlift. To me that's a more accessible lift, although both require proper spotting and form. I don't tolerate the all-too-popular rounded-back deadlift.

 

By the way - I count myself in the "doesn't have the mobility for deep squats category". In my case, it's a lack of hip mobility. I used to do very heavy partial squats - 355x5 is the most I did. I train much smarter now. I haven't lost anything on the snow for my lack of heavy squatting even though I'm 10 years older now. I still lift fairly heavy, although the only squat I load relatively heavy now is the split squats (175x5 is my max so far). 

 

Deep squats are great for those who can do them well. Not so much for everyone else. 

 

That's my take.

 

Elsbeth


 

I understand everyone is different, but as for me, heavy, ass-to-grass squats (and deadlifts) have improved my skiing, relieved my back pain, brought life back to my knees, and increased my total body strength - big time. I had been consistently lifting weights for 5 years until I started to develop back pain around the middle of my spine, and in the center between my shoulder blades. I decided to switch up my program, and did some research. In the last 6 months, I started doing Strong Lifts 5x5 and Starting Strength. My back pain completely disappeared, my knees no longer get sore or throb, and I broke through all my plateaus - significantly increasing my strength on all lifts.

 

My hips, knees, and back are actually stronger and in better condition because of ass-to-grass squats. You limit yourself by not doing the full range of motion with squats, and you can get muscle imbalances. With proper form, ATG squats activate far more muscles than quarter or parallel squats, most noticeably in the core/abs. I know you say your clients lack mobility to do them, but I think the lower they go, the more their mobility will improve, until they can do the full range of motion.

post #16 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swongler View Post

I know you say your clients lack mobility to do them, but I think the lower they go, the more their mobility will improve, until they can do the full range of motion.


I completely agree that if someone who lacks mobility to do ATG squats, when they go lower their body will adapt. But here's the big question: is the back stronger than the hips are tight? If the answer is yes, then yes, mobility will improve. If not, the back will get wrecked. Since most of my clients are 35+ with desk jobs, they have at least 20 years of hip tightening experience. Odds are, their back will give in to the squat before their hips will. It's certainly not a gamble I'm willing to take with their back health. Especially when I can get them just as strong with a combination of deadlifts and either split squats or single leg squats. And with that combination I also get  to see how strong each leg is individually. More often than not, there's a weak side and a strong side. Or at least there is when we start; the difference is almost gone within a month. Imbalances are big contributors to overuse injuries but tend to get overlooked in a program of bilateral squats and deadlifts.

 

If squats have helped you, then that's great. You are probably one of the people who can do them. Keep at it. If you find you start getting low back pain, or pain in the front of the hips/groin, then consider dropping them. 

 

Elsbeth

post #17 of 29

Thanks Elsbeth for being the voice of healthy reason.  Trying to talk sense to an obsessed he-man gym rat is like trying to do an intervention on a drug addict.  I am qualified to say so because I have been both.

 

To the point on squats, I choose to do front squats.  They put more emphasis on maintaining solid core stability over leg strength.  My legs can handle a lot more than my core (back).  If my core can't hold the weight in good form, then its too heavy.  For the type of skiing that I enjoy, my core fatigues sooner than my legs.  I have also experienced more injuries from lifting heavy weight/low reps with back squats.  At 48, I can't afford much more time being injured and the longer recovery times.

 

I started guiding my 13 yr old kids at our family athletic club.  We all do a variety of activities.  I try to develop exercises that most closely replicate the sports that we do.  After observing the baseline of my kids, I developed the following strategy.  It is kind of like a pyramid of progression.  We don't progress to the next level until mastery is developed at the lower level.  1. Flexibility / Core stability.  2. Agility.  3. Strength.  4. Power/Speed.

post #18 of 29

Consider trying Goblet Squats

 

Though they are limiting in the maximum amount of weight you can eventually do, I find them far more approachable than traditional barbell on the back or front squats.

post #19 of 29

Olympic Weightlifting coaches have been saying for years that the Klein study was totally flawed, and they were right. Competitive Olympic Weightlifters often back squat heavy twice per day, ATG, 6 days per week with no negative side effects. 90% of the time is spent back squatting, with a few sessions of front squats thrown in as an assistance exercise to the Clean. Olympic Weightlifters avoid the deadlift at all costs for two reasons 1) The deadlift screws up the timing of their first pull (the first pull in Weightlifting brings the barbell up to the knees, and positions it for the explosive second pull) and 2) heavy deadlifting is extremely taxing on the CNS and prolongs muscle and nerve recovery for the next workout session.

 

Even though the Deadlift is a competitive lift in the sport of Powerlifting, a recent trend in that sport is to only train heavy deadlifts once every 3 weeks or so, again due to CNS recovery issues. Powerlifters are finding out that by training the deadlift less, they can train the squat and bench press more. What is interesting is that even though they deadlift less, their maximum deadlifts go up, the theory being a carryover effect from having the energy to squat more often.

 

Edit: FYI

 

Olympic Weightlifters compete in two lifts: The Snatch and the Clean and Jerk

 

Powerlifters compete in 3 lifts: The Squat, Bench Press, and Deadlift

 

I added that comment because people often get the two sports mixed up.

 

post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKirk View Post

Olympic Weightlifting coaches have been saying for years that the Klein study was totally flawed, and they were right. Competitive Olympic Weightlifters often back squat heavy twice per day, ATG, 6 days per week with no negative side effects. 90% of the time is spent back squatting, with a few sessions of front squats thrown in as an assistance exercise to the Clean. Olympic Weightlifters avoid the deadlift at all costs for two reasons 1) The deadlift screws up the timing of their first pull (the first pull in Weightlifting brings the barbell up to the knees, and positions it for the explosive second pull) and 2) heavy deadlifting is extremely taxing on the CNS and prolongs muscle and nerve recovery for the next workout session.

 

Even though the Deadlift is a competitive lift in the sport of Powerlifting, a recent trend in that sport is to only train heavy deadlifts once every 3 weeks or so, again due to CNS recovery issues. Powerlifters are finding out that by training the deadlift less, they can train the squat and bench press more. What is interesting is that even though they deadlift less, their maximum deadlifts go up, the theory being a carryover effect from having the energy to squat more often.

 

Edit: FYI

 

Olympic Weightlifters compete in two lifts: The Snatch and the Clean and Jerk

 

Powerlifters compete in 3 lifts: The Squat, Bench Press, and Deadlift

 

I added that comment because people often get the two sports mixed up.

 



Interesting. Any chance you have a reference for this? Not trying to go point-counterpoint on you - just interested. 

 

And thinking if this is the case - that deadlifts are more taxing on CNS - whether it will make me like the deadlift more or less for my clients. I'd guess more for the weight-loss/general fitness folks who only see me 1x/week - more bang for the buck; and probably more for athletes off-season but less for athletes in season.

 

All that to say - I'm intrigued and if you have something to point me to, I'd love to look into it further (I may go play in google-land anyhow...).

 

 

post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaino View Post



Interesting. Any chance you have a reference for this? Not trying to go point-counterpoint on you - just interested. 

 

And thinking if this is the case - that deadlifts are more taxing on CNS - whether it will make me like the deadlift more or less for my clients. I'd guess more for the weight-loss/general fitness folks who only see me 1x/week - more bang for the buck; and probably more for athletes off-season but less for athletes in season.

 

All that to say - I'm intrigued and if you have something to point me to, I'd love to look into it further (I may go play in google-land anyhow...).

 

 


Just to clarify, I'm talking about the effects of doing very heavy deadlifts (500 to 800+ pound range) on a weekly basis. This is probably way more than your typical client would ever think about attempting, but for the typical Powerlifter or Olympic Weightlifter lifting weights in this range is common practice. I can attest from personal experience that you can recover from daily heavy squatting, as long as you don't go overboard on the number of sets attempted. Typical routine for Olympic Weightlifting is to warm up with an empty bar, then add 40 Kg, squat ATG for a double, add 40 Kg more, squat for a double, and so on until you reach your daily max. When you get near your daily max, the increments may be smaller such as 10 Kg or 20 Kg jump in weight added. Total number of squats will probably be in the 25 to 30 rep range. Squatting down is a very natural movement for the human body ( sitting down in a chair, bending down to pick something off the ground etc.) so I think we all have a built in fast recovery for it.

 

As far as references, most of this stuff is passed on between coaches in the community since Powerlifting and O-Lifting are such niche sports. The Russians have by far done most of the academic studies on this. Olympic Weightlifting Coach Glenn Pendlay has an excellent web site dedicated to O-Lifting which you may find helpful. Glenn is also totally against heavy deadlifting for any of his Weightlifters. On the Powerlifting side, Louie Simmons (Westside Barbell) is also against routine heavy deadlifting, and prefers to train his lifters with squatting and assistance exercises such as Good Mornings.

 

post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKirk View Post


Just to clarify, I'm talking about the effects of doing very heavy deadlifts (500 to 800+ pound range) on a weekly basis. This is probably way more than your typical client would ever think about attempting, but for the typical Powerlifter or Olympic Weightlifter lifting weights in this range is common practice. I can attest from personal experience that you can recover from daily heavy squatting, as long as you don't go overboard on the number of sets attempted. Typical routine for Olympic Weightlifting is to warm up with an empty bar, then add 40 Kg, squat ATG for a double, add 40 Kg more, squat for a double, and so on until you reach your daily max. When you get near your daily max, the increments may be smaller such as 10 Kg or 20 Kg jump in weight added. Total number of squats will probably be in the 25 to 30 rep range. Squatting down is a very natural movement for the human body ( sitting down in a chair, bending down to pick something off the ground etc.) so I think we all have a built in fast recovery for it.

 

As far as references, most of this stuff is passed on between coaches in the community since Powerlifting and O-Lifting are such niche sports. The Russians have by far done most of the academic studies on this. Olympic Weightlifting Coach Glenn Pendlay has an excellent web site dedicated to O-Lifting which you may find helpful. Glenn is also totally against heavy deadlifting for any of his Weightlifters. On the Powerlifting side, Louie Simmons (Westside Barbell) is also against routine heavy deadlifting, and prefers to train his lifters with squatting and assistance exercises such as Good Mornings.

 



This might not carry over that much to regular Joes and Janes.  Deadlifting is relatively easier to do, for a variety of reasons including spotters, than squats, for instance.  In terms of form, it's also true that virtually no one in anything but a very niche gym will have good form for either squat or deadlift, but deadlift form tends to be less scarily off.  Louie Simmons (Westside Barbell), has been cycling anabolics for probably longer than many of the younger posters on here have been alive, and so is a good case-study that works in his gym may not work, or even be possible, at the local Y.

 

Dumbell deadlifts, though, are possible just about everywhere, and bodyweight exercises are possible everywhere.  Plus, it needs to be stressed that modern skiing is a movement sport, not a power sport, and no one needs to squat to get in skiing shape. 

 

post #23 of 29

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

 Plus, it needs to be stressed that modern skiing is a movement sport, not a power sport, and no one needs to squat to get in skiing shape. 

 


Maybe not but unless you're a professional skier and your livelihood depends on your ski abilities, everyone should be doing squats in one way or another.

 

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post



Plus, it needs to be stressed that modern skiing is a movement sport, not a power sport, and no one needs to squat to get in skiing shape. 

 


That is complete and total BS, unless ones intends to be a terminal intermediate skier the rest of their life. High end free skiing and ski racing is a sport that requires the body to produce an explosive power output to perform the needed movements at that skill level.

 

But you are absolutely right that the vast majority of skiers don't put the needed time into developing this power during the off season. Then they wonder why after spending $ thousands on the "latest and greatest" new equipment for the next season, they still ski as bad as they did last season. Great skiers above all else are great athletes, and great athletes have the ability to develop explosive power. If you think dumbell "deadlifts"  are going to develop explosive power output, you are sadly mistaken.

 

post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKirk View Post


That is complete and total BS, unless ones intends to be a terminal intermediate skier the rest of their life. High end free skiing and ski racing is a sport that requires the body to produce an explosive power output to perform the needed movements at that skill level...

 



What's funny about this statement is that there are lots of freeskiers who don't lift at all, much less squat. View squatting as similar to yoga:  many freeskiers DO do yoga, but it's not needed for freeskiing, or for ski racing for that matter. 

 

 

 

post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post



What's funny about this statement is that there are lots of freeskiers who don't lift at all, much less squat. View squatting as similar to yoga:  many freeskiers DO do yoga, but it's not needed for freeskiing, or for ski racing for that matter. 

 

 

 

It's also funny that there are a lot of people who classify themselves as "free skiers" who are so weak and out of shape that they are out of breath halfway down an intermediate run. It is also funny how these same people show up every season with the best gear they can spend their money on, wasted their entire summer on the latest exercise fad, yet can't keep up with any of the J3 Boys I coach, who at 13-14 years old can develop more power in a ski turn than 99.5% of the "instructors" on the ski school.

 

It is very funny that there are so many people out there who spend so much time yacking on the mountain about "movement patterns", instead of exercising on the off season to build the power to actually have the ability to perform said movements. Whatever, it keeps my laughing watching these people attempt to get down a black diamond, while my 13 and 14 year old's just shred the hill apart.

 

LOL
 

 

post #27 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKirk View Post

... Whatever, it keeps my laughing watching these people attempt to get down a black diamond, while my 13 and 14 year old's just shred the hill apart.

 

LOL
 

 

 Sounds like your 14 year olds are winning all the medals, not to mention any freeskiing comp they enter.

 

Except they aren't, now are they? 



 

 

post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

 Sounds like your 14 year olds are winning all the medals, not to mention any freeskiing comp they enter.

 

Except they aren't, now are they? 



 

 

Well, since you brought it up...The kids from our race program haven't won all the medals...but they won the majority of them in our region. We also sent more kids from our mountain to the various J4-J1 championships this year than any other race program in our region.

 

Thanks for asking.
 

 

post #29 of 29

http://freeskier.com/stories/fitness-tips-how-sage-cattabriga-alosa-stays-top-his-game

 

"...unless I am rehabbing my body you wont find me in a gym much. Occasionally while traveling without access to my normal activities I will dabble in the gym experience. And when there, its stationary bike, (for cardio and warm up) and then followed by stretching.

What are some alternative workouts you enjoy? All of the work outs I do involve a specific activity. Mountain biking being the primary off season activity, but I also skateboard, do yoga and some rock climbing as cross training."

 

Just another out of shape freeskier...except that some of the best ski racers in the world also follow similar training regimes, except with more emphasis on the biking and less on some of the other stuff.

 

Again, there's nothing wrong with squatting, it's just not needed for skiing and riding.  Even high end freeskiing. 

 

Internet heroes to one side, it's also quite likely that the bulk of the people reading this don't have great squatting form.    There can be something wrong with squatting with bad form, all the more reason to either commit to learning that form, or consider alternatives.

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