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No D2 construction on the Atomics in the womens SL today

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

Last year many of the women were skiing on D2s but in todays WC race I spotted none. But loads of the flat deck model. None of the men were skiing last year on the D2s. Anybody got inside information?

post #2 of 28

Not inside info, but... it would appear that the WC racers are preferring the non-D2 skis. lex persimoniae.

post #3 of 28

aut non causa pro causa

post #4 of 28

Que sera, sera?

post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 

I wonder when Atomic is going to come out with the 2013 models. Have you guys seen any new graphics on the wc skis? Also, are the Salomons the exact same ski? We dont have any Salomon race ski reseller in our area.

post #6 of 28

I actually do have some inside info on why the d2 sl skis are not as popular. A few of the athletes actually complained of too much edge hold and as a result the skis were hooky in the course and tended to be slower than non d2 skis. 

post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 

Helluva, interesting information. Thanks.

post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 

Here is a fresh photo of Marlis:

 

Marlis Schild 001.JPG

post #9 of 28


Makes sense, also explains why we Masters racers prefer D2...I have 2 pairs of the 165 D2 SLs...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeluvaSkier View Post

I actually do have some inside info on why the d2 sl skis are not as popular. A few of the athletes actually complained of too much edge hold and as a result the skis were hooky in the course and tended to be slower than non d2 skis. 



 

post #10 of 28

No one has used the D2 for SL over the last couple of years.

 

My understanding is that with each turn lasting less than a second there isnt enough time for the D2 to be an advantage. which would make sense with the edge hold comment.

 

The flat deck Salomon is the same ski, I do believe though that the D2 one is slightly different. The ski is the same, just a slightly differtn double deck.

 

Seen a little bit of 2013 kit on the hill recently, as the Austrian women were training in the same place as us recently, nothing too different on the slalom ski, maybe a new plate on the horizon, and the graphic is more black than white.

 

 

post #11 of 28

jknock, is anyone still using the non-d2 GS ski?

post #12 of 28
Thread Starter 

jknock - I dont think that the reason is the short time eclipse of a SL turn. From a mechanical standpoint if the ski bends it bends. One major difference is how the binding is attached to the ski. With the D2 the binding for example needs an extra 3mm shim underneath it in order to bring it up to the same height as the non D2. The D2 material that serves as plate is also different from the non D2 plate. Some of the skiers had big problems with bindings braking loose from the D2 skis. The D2 also changes the weight distribution on the ski and makes it behave differently.

 

I cant wait to test the D2s. Maybe in two weeks. At the moment no snow. 

post #13 of 28

The reason they dont use a double deck in sl is that it is less responsive. On the non D2 ski, the plate is broken into two distinct parts with a gap between them. the binding that holds them together acts like a giant spring, increasing the reaction out of the turn. Having tried the D2 and non D2 ski, there is a very slight but noticable difference while free skiing and the non D2 is noticably faster in the course when it is smooth.

 

Noone uses a non D2 ski in gs because it works. I have heard of some guys (europa cupers mostly) cutting the D2 plate infront and behind the binding, the same way they cut the top sheet on speed skis, to change the flex of the ski. however, for the most part, both Marcel and Ben, as well as pinterault (salomon, but it is the same ski exactly) all use the D2 in Gs

post #14 of 28

Sounds reasonable to me...for WC skiers. D2 works for me...an aging Masters racer...in all events because the tip bends really easily into the turn, as the D2 top tightens up in the middle the ski holds the arc, and when the D2 releases at the end of the turn, it gives me a lot of juice into the next turn. Note that other manufacturers...specifically Blizzard and Nordica...starting playing with their own versions of D2 this year.  Next year, I'm going to be a lot more concerned about sidecuts and lengths...and if it's true that Amer (Atomic/Salomon) is really behind this whole FIS Farce, I'm likely to be switching to Rossignol...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pitters View Post

The reason they dont use a double deck in sl is that it is less responsive. On the non D2 ski, the plate is broken into two distinct parts with a gap between them. the binding that holds them together acts like a giant spring, increasing the reaction out of the turn. Having tried the D2 and non D2 ski, there is a very slight but noticable difference while free skiing and the non D2 is noticably faster in the course when it is smooth.

 

Noone uses a non D2 ski in gs because it works. I have heard of some guys (europa cupers mostly) cutting the D2 plate infront and behind the binding, the same way they cut the top sheet on speed skis, to change the flex of the ski. however, for the most part, both Marcel and Ben, as well as pinterault (salomon, but it is the same ski exactly) all use the D2 in Gs



 

post #15 of 28

The ski is actually identical between the non D2 and the D2 at the fis stock level, all the D2 does is "mellow out" the ski, making it more forgiving in ruts, bumps, groves, etc.. As for the radius changes, you probably wont be able to get your hands on them next year, or have to deal with them, because they are only required at the WJC, WC and EC races. It is like the current WC skis (they exist at the provincial fis level, guys need sub 30 points to have a chance at getting them) Blizzard and nordica is only putting it on the GS ski this year and having talked to the Noridica North America a few weeks ago at a fis race, they dont seem to have any plans of putting them on the sl skis.

post #16 of 28

I already have two pairs of last year's 165 D2 SLs, I just got a good deal on a pair of this year's 165 non-D2s, so I picked them up. Yep, they aren't quite as mellow, but I think they're going to stick a little harder and be a little more precise...

post #17 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post

I already have two pairs of last year's 165 D2 SLs, I just got a good deal on a pair of this year's 165 non-D2s, so I picked them up. Yep, they aren't quite as mellow, but I think they're going to stick a little harder and be a little more precise...



Have you skied them yet SR?  I was thinking about a pair to complement the 11 D2

post #18 of 28

A better course report will follow.  I've been on them twice, but the snow was so soft/cold it was hard to tell.  Will run some SL gates on them tomorrow and Saturday and compare with the D2s...watch this space...

 

biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post



Have you skied them yet SR?  I was thinking about a pair to complement the 11 D2



 

post #19 of 28

I free skied on them today for 3 runs on some corduroy...unbelievable skis. They're not quite as mellow as the D2s into the turn...the tip is stiffer, and you have to push them a little more, but the hookup is incredible and they make a great, clean arc. Lots and lots of energy out of the turn, stick like glue on the steep, very predictable if things go south and you have to jump on them to get back in the game...really glad I got a pair...

 

biggrin.gif

post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 

Now its official. There is no more D2 construction on the 2013 SL skis. The non FIS model will also be a tip rocker version.

post #21 of 28

not sure if you already saw this...

 

racing on:

1327442084_hirscher.jpg

 

propagating:

500x350.jpg

 

...marketing for the win

 

btw I bought nonD2s too, like them... but missing the comparison with D2s...

post #22 of 28
Thread Starter 
Spirit, check out the yellow front of the ski he races on, thats 2013 design.
post #23 of 28

ye.. well point is they ski on nonD2s and sell D2s... even marlis, just google images... not really new shocking info, but interesting, at least for me as new guy in this kind of ski/racing stuff... just another proof of how marketing is powerful

post #24 of 28
Thread Starter 

They probably need to sell old stock of D2's. At some point they will start marketing the new 2013 skis and then we will see the non D2s on the podium. BTW, the new D2 construction is slotted for 2013. To save weight I guess.

post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

BTW, the new D2 construction is slotted for 2013. To save weight I guess.



I saw that too, brings back memories of the Salomon ProLink... smile.gif

post #26 of 28

I saw a D2 Salomon GS yesterday. Even had the Atomic logo on the top deck. Different profile in the tip, so it wasn't just a different topsheet on an Atomic.

post #27 of 28

What binding?

post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

What binding?


It was a Salomon Driver type, but he said he had to color outside the lines and drill for that. I think it was setup for the X20 or whatever Atomic calls it.

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