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Question on Rotobrush

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 

I have the following questions, most appreciated if someone can answer them for me:

 

What is the size of the shaft of the Rotobrush? Can I presume the shaft is standard size? I am worried that it is too large for the chuck of my drill.

 

Will say a Toko or Swix brush fits a Holmenkol shaft?

 

Cheers

post #2 of 43

Just started using the Red Creek roto kit from Reliable Racing. The difference in terms of the quality of the brushing and the time required is amazing.

 

The shafts should fit any standard 1/2" chuck. Be sure to use a corded drill that can turn around 2,500 RPM (cordless drills do not spin fast enough, only around 800 RPM) also would recommend using a keyless chuck to ease changing brushes. 

 

Not sure, but I do not think the shafts are universal in terms of different brands of brushes. I like to brush tail to tip before waxing and the Red Creek kit did not include a brass brush. I was in a shop and found a Toko brass brush that does fit the Red Creek handle, but was told the Swixx brushes do not work with the Red Creek handle.

 

Would like to hear any opinions on the Red Creek roto products. I did notice Red Creek was less expensive than other brands and I am wondering if there is any quality issue or if I just found a good deal. This brings up another question, how will I know when a roto brush is done and needs to be replaced. I assume these brushes wear out at some point and will become less effective, but could this damage the base of the ski. How long should I expect the roto brushes to last if I am only waxing 4 - 5 pairs of skis once, sometimes twice, a week.

 

Only been using this for a few weeks and so far the results are great.

post #3 of 43


Regarding the question of brushes from different brands fitting shafts from different brands.  I know about Swix, SKS/FKtools, Red Creek & KUU.

 

Red Creek & KUU brushes are interchangeable on the others' shafts, but do not fit Swix & SKS/FKtools shafts.  And vice versa, Swix & SKS/FKtools brushes are interchangeable on the others' shafts, but do not fit Red Creek & KUU shafts.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scavenger View Post

I have the following questions, most appreciated if someone can answer them for me:

 

What is the size of the shaft of the Rotobrush? Can I presume the shaft is standard size? I am worried that it is too large for the chuck of my drill.

 

Will say a Toko or Swix brush fits a Holmenkol shaft?

 

Cheers



 

post #4 of 43

AFAIK, the standard roto brush shaft is a 10mm hexagon which works for Briko-Maplus, Red Creek, Toko & KUU and I thought Swix among others. (SVST has a proprietary oval.) I wouldn't be surprise if these brushes were all made in the same factory, but branded accordingly, like SkiMan does for a lot of tools and vises.

 

The problems I've seen is the length of the brush and shaft, not the cross section. KUU brushes measure 11.25 cm and stated as a 10cm, while Briko-Maplus & Toko measure 9.75cm for a stated 10cm brush. The KUU shaft and guard is longer than the other two. We had a KUU brush returned because it was too long for a Red Creek shaft, but fit the shaft cross section. Other brush and shafts are 14cm and 20cm increments. A shorter brush can 'work' on a longer shaft, but it is less than ideal due to it's ability to slide a little along the shaft.

 

A 10cm Toko brush can fit the Briko-Maplus Quick Grip shaft or Red Creek, but is short for the KUU shaft. The KUU brushes are just long for the B-M Quick Grip, but can 'work' with a minimal purchase of the shaft in the drill chuck.


Edited by Alpinord - 12/29/11 at 7:09am
post #5 of 43

I disagree with the comments about not using a cordless drill.  I've been using a Ryobi drill and it works great!  I also believe that if you are using a brass rotobrush, you DO NOT want to go 2,500 rpms.  I believe 800 rpms or something under 1000 rpms is the max for brass.  Nylon and horse hair can go much faster; as does my Ryobi cordless (18v).

post #6 of 43
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwbrookside View Post

The shafts should fit any standard 1/2" chuck. Be sure to use a corded drill that can turn around 2,500 RPM (cordless drills do not spin fast enough, only around 800 RPM) also would recommend using a keyless chuck to ease changing brushes. 

 


That is my problem - my drill has a 3/8" chuck only. It means buying another drill which I try to avoid.

 

Thanks guys for all the respsonses. Happy New Year to you all.

 

post #7 of 43



icon14.gificon14.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

I disagree with the comments about not using a cordless drill.  I've been using a Ryobi drill and it works great!  I also believe that if you are using a brass rotobrush, you DO NOT want to go 2,500 rpms.  I believe 800 rpms or something under 1000 rpms is the max for brass.  Nylon and horse hair can go much faster; as does my Ryobi cordless (18v).



 

post #8 of 43

keep in mind you are trying to remove wax from the structure.  if you go too fast or use too much pressure you can remelt the wax which defeats the purpose....

post #9 of 43

They will last a long time. Do not press!!!!! Let the brush do the work. Brush tip to tail, brush rotating towards the tail at the top of brush

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwbrookside View Post

Just started using the Red Creek roto kit from Reliable Racing. The difference in terms of the quality of the brushing and the time required is amazing.

 

The shafts should fit any standard 1/2" chuck. Be sure to use a corded drill that can turn around 2,500 RPM (cordless drills do not spin fast enough, only around 800 RPM) also would recommend using a keyless chuck to ease changing brushes. 

 

Not sure, but I do not think the shafts are universal in terms of different brands of brushes. I like to brush tail to tip before waxing and the Red Creek kit did not include a brass brush. I was in a shop and found a Toko brass brush that does fit the Red Creek handle, but was told the Swixx brushes do not work with the Red Creek handle.

 

Would like to hear any opinions on the Red Creek roto products. I did notice Red Creek was less expensive than other brands and I am wondering if there is any quality issue or if I just found a good deal. This brings up another question, how will I know when a roto brush is done and needs to be replaced. I assume these brushes wear out at some point and will become less effective, but could this damage the base of the ski. How long should I expect the roto brushes to last if I am only waxing 4 - 5 pairs of skis once, sometimes twice, a week.

 

Only been using this for a few weeks and so far the results are great.



 

post #10 of 43

I own Red Creek, Briko and Kuu roto brushes. I have found that my only Kuu brush is out of round or balance. I have a dual brush shaft and Kuu brush rapidly shakes my drill and brush shaft with any of of my other brushes which makes it hard to get an even finish on my skis. I wax many sets a week for the LAST 100 years and  my 3/8" chuck electric drill has worked fine for me! I can not imagine waxing over 10 sets of skis (lived this nightmare) with a 1/2" chuck drill. I have a 18 volt cordless drill that works fine but it is still heavy. 

post #11 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

They will last a long time. Do not press!!!!! Let the brush do the work. Brush tip to tail, brush rotating towards the tail at the top of brush

Interesting. I have always let the brush rotate the other way (so the action on the ski imitates the direction of travel of the snow surface along the ski). This results in the brush rotating toward the tip at the top of the brush. It seems like the other way might create some roughness-drag in the Ptex.

What is the prevailing opinion among roto-brushers out there?
post #12 of 43


If you have the brush rotating as you suggest, you are spiitng the wax out of the brush in front of the brush and then brushing over it again.This drives the wax back into the base and probably somewhat melts the wax again.

http://www.skiwax.ca/tp/cb_roto.php

 

From RED CREEK site

 

If you have the brass roto-brush it will be the first roto-tool to use. [If you have one of the fine, steel brushes it may be used instead of the brass roto-brush.] Place the brass roto-brush on the shaft noting this brush has an arrow indicating the direction of spin. You will want to have the brush so that the lower part of the brush when it is touching the ski will move away from you.

 

This is the same as the top of the brush moving towrds you (towards the tail)

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NE1 View Post


Interesting. I have always let the brush rotate the other way (so the action on the ski imitates the direction of travel of the snow surface along the ski). This results in the brush rotating toward the tip at the top of the brush. It seems like the other way might create some roughness-drag in the Ptex.
What is the prevailing opinion among roto-brushers out there?


 

post #13 of 43

edited to check out that link and head to the basement for a trial run.

 

post #14 of 43


Sorry dudes contact point goes towards the tip, you guys are spitting the wax out and then brushing over it!  No-NO!!!!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowfan View Post


I'm with you.  Tip to tail with the brush spinning towards the tail at the contact point. The other way sounds all wrong to me.  Don't even want to try it.

 

Atomicman, can you clarify?

 

 



 

post #15 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post


If you have the brush rotating as you suggest, you are spiitng the wax out of the brush in front of the brush and then brushing over it again.This drives the wax back into the base and probably somewhat melts the wax again.

http://www.skiwax.ca/tp/cb_roto.php

 

From RED CREEK site

 

If you have the brass roto-brush it will be the first roto-tool to use. [If you have one of the fine, steel brushes it may be used instead of the brass roto-brush.] Place the brass roto-brush on the shaft noting this brush has an arrow indicating the direction of spin. You will want to have the brush so that the lower part of the brush when it is touching the ski will move away from you.

 

This is the same as the top of the brush moving towrds you (towards the tail) Contact point at the bottom towards the tip (away from you!

 

 



 



 

post #16 of 43

Tip to tail with the bottom spinning toward the tail which sends the dust to the tail. It is the same when hand brushing tip to tail. Not complicated and this works fine for me:

 

 

post #17 of 43

http://www.epicski.com/t/75533/rotobrush-101-please#post_997368

 

Terry, here is a picture you posted.

 

This is exactly how I use the Rotobrush. Just opposite of what your video showed. See all the wax behind the brush towards the tip. And the tech is pulling the brush towards him not pushing it. This shows  the Drill motor on the left side of the skis (away from the bench not over it on the right side) and he is standing facing the tips not the tail.

post #18 of 43

As I said, the method in the video is very intuitive and works just fine for me. (At 'Traversatory' I get plenty of testing of pure glide with little slope.) Personally, the image of the opposite seems counter-intuitive to me, especially with years of hand brushing tip to tail. At the end of the day, will the ski glide truly be different depending on which way you brush the wax? To me it's a lot like polishing edges both ways with stones or diamonds....it's all good. Better to keep it simple and intuitive and encourage people to scrape and brush than to get hung up on finer points that probably won't matter for the vast majority of rec skiers and beer league/NASTAR racers.

 

How could you compare the glide on brushing direction anyway? Do one ski one direction and the reverse for the other and go for a ride?

post #19 of 43


Agreed! But the way you do it seems very awkward to me, so Touche'

 

Seems odd to have your drill motor over the bench like that. Seems like you have to have your skis high in the vise.

 

But to each their own, I am sure it mkaes no difference as long as you get the structure opened out, the excess wax out and polished.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

As I said, the method in the video is very intuitive and works just fine for me. (At 'Traversatory' I get plenty of testing of pure glide with little slope.) Personally, the image of the opposite seems counter-intuitive to me, especially with years of hand brushing tip to tail. At the end of the day, will the ski glide truly be different depending on which way you brush the wax? To me it's a lot like polishing edges both ways with stones or diamonds....it's all good. Better to keep it simple and intuitive and encourage people to scrape and brush than to get hung up on finer points that probably won't matter for the vast majority of rec skiers and beer league/NASTAR racers.

 

How could you compare the glide on brushing direction anyway? Do one ski one direction and the reverse for the other and go for a ride?



 

post #20 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View PostBut to each their own, I am sure it mkaes no difference as long as you get the structure opened out, the excess wax out and polished.


Like a lot of things tuning and waxing, there are multiple ways to achieve success relative to ones own needs and perspective. As long as people understand what they are trying to accomplish, finding their own way to get there can simply get down to personal preferences and experimentation over time.

 

Edit: Snowfan might be able recall how our skis compared in the glide department.

 

 

post #21 of 43

I went to atomicman's link and found:

 

 start at the tip and move toward the tail. REMEMBER: DO NOT PRESS DOWN! The drill should still be spinning the roto-brush so the bottom moves away from you

 

 

This to me reads like  what Alpinord is describing and consistent with the brush direction for hand brushing.

post #22 of 43

That depends on how you stand when working on your skis. I find it totally awkward to push the roto toward the tail with the drill motor in my left hand skis on your left.


I stand opposite just like all other tuning. facing the tips  the skis on my right,  drill motor hanging over the floor not the bench roto handle in my right hand. Pulling the brush towards the tail pushing it towards the tips.

 

So no we are the opposite.

 

But the Photo Alpinord posted in a previous thread shows all the wax towards the tip and the tech oriented  how I stand!

 

Go figure?????????????confused.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

I went to atomicman's link and found:

 

 start at the tip and move toward the tail. REMEMBER: DO NOT PRESS DOWN! The drill should still be spinning the roto-brush so the bottom moves away from you

 

 

This to me reads like  what Alpinord is describing and consistent with the brush direction for hand brushing.



 


Edited by Atomicman - 12/30/11 at 3:07pm
post #23 of 43

A couple thoughts relative to drill position comments:

 

In my case, while brushing a pair of skis on the vises, the near ski is done with the drill (with handle up) over the floor and is more comfortable. The inside ski, I sometimes do with the drill in the same position, but can also be done with the drill direction reversed and on the inside. It's OK and only short duration so it's not a big deal. Additionally, coupled with vise height, I think that the size and shape of the Quick Grip handle and no guard provides some minor body and hand position options that may be different than other vise set ups and a longer roto handle with a guard.

 

Freeing the structure of wax and polishing the base is the goal. The how is highly variable as long as it achieves the goal.

post #24 of 43

Near as I can tell, if your drill is reversible, doesn't matter which side the drill is on, or which side your skis are on.  Moving the drill DOWN the ski, bristles moving (where they contact the ski) TOWARDS the tail.  Just citing your OWN reference. 

 

I just got mine, still learning. The issue I found was the wax dust was being tossed towards the tail and we were moving into it, but no different than hand brushing.  The huge difference I found, though, was lots of dust being left BEHIND the brush as well, unlike when I hand brush where it's glossy.  I had to wipe after each pass. 

 

Not using a brass brush, only a horsehair and a "fiber" (assume it's nylon) brush as I can think of no more likely way to trash your base than using a rotobrush that is brass.  I'll do any brass brushing by hand, thanks.   

post #25 of 43

I guess that works for a rec ski.....  I would never touch a base with a brass brush after waxing, but that is just me.... 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

Tip to tail with the bottom spinning toward the tail which sends the dust to the tail. It is the same when hand brushing tip to tail. Not complicated and this works fine for me:

 

 



 

post #26 of 43

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuckerDH View Post

I guess that works for a rec ski.....  I would never touch a base with a brass brush after waxing, but that is just me.... 


As noted above: "REMEMBER: DO NOT PRESS DOWN!" and using a light touch a brass brush can expedite the process with no ill effects. Additionally, over time brass brushes can soften.

post #27 of 43

I only use brass before waxing too. Brass is to open up the structure


 

Stiff horsehair first brush after scraping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuckerDH View Post

I guess that works for a rec ski.....  I would never touch a base with a brass brush after waxing, but that is just me.... 

 



 



 

post #28 of 43

I guess cranking turns on man made is harder on my bases than anything I do to them on a bench...but that's just me. biggrin.gif

 

Happy New Year all and I hope we all get a bunch of snow....soon. icon14.gif

post #29 of 43

i do not know, is it?  but if it works for you thats all that matters..... 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

I guess cranking turns on man made is harder on my bases than anything I do to them on a bench...but that's just me. biggrin.gif

 

Happy New Year all and I hope we all get a bunch of snow....soon. icon14.gif



 

post #30 of 43


Terry thanks and Happy New Year to you!

 

We are getting hammeed up here!

 

22 inches of new in last 48 hours at Crystal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post

I guess cranking turns on man made is harder on my bases than anything I do to them on a bench...but that's just me. biggrin.gif

 

Happy New Year all and I hope we all get a bunch of snow....soon. icon14.gif



 

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