Uproar at Snowbasin?

Didn't look like the kid did anything real dangerous...he went around the guy who was standing still so he could hit al little kicker.  He was in control, and not going particularly fast.  I skipped through a lot of the rest of the video only pausing to catch some f-bombs from the patroller.

Just went back and listened.  That patroller is a total douche and should be dismissed.  Slow skiing area?  THey weren't going fast..not at all. 

If a ski patrol talked to me like that i would be talking to his boss,  completely uncalled for to swear, especially to a minor...and not even give a warning.   Hope this video goes viral and he feels like a complete ass.

He wasn't even going fast and in complete control, i could ride switch on my ski's faster than that and i suck at switch.

I ask myself- why are these guys so mad... it can't be because they "don't like young people"... that's whiney BS that was old in the '50s. So looking at the beginning of the video, I see two blue suits...official, but not patrol... instructors... so the rider cruises to within a couple feet of one to hit a little kicker... then you see it. A tiny figure, legs splayed apart in a snowplow, below the rider.. ok, a three or four year old kid. The rider threads a needle between instructor and toddler to hit a tiny kids kicker in a slow beginner zone...how close did he come to the kid? Camera doesn't show. How fast was he going? Doesn't seem excessive, but videos, especially shot at matching speed, can be deceiving. Why were three adult professionals on the scene in real time so pissed off?

 I wonder... something to do do perhaps with protecting really young people. Just a thought... 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Crab 

I ask myself- why are these guys so mad... it can't be because they "don't like young people"... that's whiney BS that was old in the '50s. So looking at the beginning of the video, I see two blue suits...official, but not patrol... instructors... so the rider cruises to within a couple feet of one to hit a little kicker... then you see it. A tiny figure, legs splayed apart in a snowplow, below the rider.. ok, a three or four year old kid. The rider threads a needle between instructor and toddler to hit a tiny kids kicker in a slow beginner zone...how close did he come to the kid? Camera doesn't show. How fast was he going? Doesn't seem excessive, but videos, especially shot at matching speed, can be deceiving. Why were three adult professionals on the scene in real time so pissed off?

 I wonder... something to do do perhaps with protecting really young people. Just a thought... 

What kid? Where do you see a kid? The guys have a 3 minute conversation right after the incident and no one mentions almost hitting a kid...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tromano 

What kid? Where do you see a kid? The guys have a 3 minute conversation right after the incident and no one mentions almost hitting a kid...

The kid in red that's at least 30+ feet away by the time he hits the small kicker at the beginning of the video?  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Crab 

I ask myself- why are these guys so mad... it can't be because they "don't like young people"... that's whiney BS that was old in the '50s. So looking at the beginning of the video, I see two blue suits...official, but not patrol... instructors... so the rider cruises to within a couple feet of one to hit a little kicker... then you see it. A tiny figure, legs splayed apart in a snowplow, below the rider.. ok, a three or four year old kid. The rider threads a needle between instructor and toddler to hit a tiny kids kicker in a slow beginner zone...how close did he come to the kid? Camera doesn't show. How fast was he going? Doesn't seem excessive, but videos, especially shot at matching speed, can be deceiving. Why were three adult professionals on the scene in real time so pissed off?

 I wonder... something to do do perhaps with protecting really young people. Just a thought... 

I'm also guessing because there are a lot of obnoxious free-flying douches on the trail, speeding down slow zones, doing "tricks" off of jumps that are on the side but send them flying right into the heart of the trail, etc. With the lack of snow, these tools are in the middle of slow trails rather than on more difficult terrain/in the park, yet they don't seem to realize it.

That being said, I urge everyone here to boycott Basin for no less than four years because of the instructors rude behavior

I like the guy who blows by them all during the arguing at 2:48  lol !       I don't know if this is from this year but Ski patrollers are usually a little stricter at the beginning of the season.   But they really didn't appear to be going fast at all.   Probably shouldn't of buzzed that guy just to hit a tiny kicker...   Now if it were a big kicker then hell yes! :)  

Quote:

Originally Posted by huhh 

If a ski patrol talked to me like that i would be talking to his boss,  completely uncalled for to swear, especially to a minor...and not even give a warning.   Hope this video goes viral and he feels like a complete ass.

 

He wasn't even going fast and in complete control, i could ride switch on my ski's faster than that and i suck at switch.

I guess our idea of control differs...

If the gaper doesn't dive hard left between the ski schooler and the kid, no one would have said a word. Boarder brought this on himself, Yeah the troller was also a doosh bag...

So glad this was captured in tape.  My point here isn't to argue whether or not the snow boarder was speeding or out of control.  People can argue that for as long as they want.  Instead i want to bring up the fact that there is a consensus about how inappropriately the snowbasin staff handled the situation.  This doesn’t seem to be an anomaly.  I felt like I was watching a memory because of this was so similar to what happened to me a couple years ago.  Short story is a buddy and I cut rope under a lift so we wouldn’t have to hike around.  Dumb. Whatever.  What happen next was unacceptable.  We started off cooperative, but we immediately met with a disrespectful, dismissive, and stuck-up lifty.  The lifty pulled our passes and then questioned are support for our race team.  She categorized us with other racers placing their faults on us.  And later we noticed a double standard as not 10min had passed and an older man was giving a warning for the same action.  We then continued to see similar traits in from the ski patrol, and upper management of on hill operations.  At one point, after scheduling a meeting with a manager I tried to introduce myself and explain my case.  I held out my hand for a hand shake and he said “I’m not here to be your friend, get out of this lodge.”  There is obviously a problem at snowbasin.  They don’t value their customers.  Skiers should spend their money elsewhere.
As a note, I’m emailing this thread to snowbasin in hopes action is taken.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Crab 

I ask myself- why are these guys so mad... it can't be because they "don't like young people"... that's whiney BS that was old in the '50s. So looking at the beginning of the video, I see two blue suits...official, but not patrol... instructors... so the rider cruises to within a couple feet of one to hit a little kicker... then you see it. A tiny figure, legs splayed apart in a snowplow, below the rider.. ok, a three or four year old kid. The rider threads a needle between instructor and toddler to hit a tiny kids kicker in a slow beginner zone...how close did he come to the kid? Camera doesn't show. How fast was he going? Doesn't seem excessive, but videos, especially shot at matching speed, can be deceiving. Why were three adult professionals on the scene in real time so pissed off?

 I wonder... something to do do perhaps with protecting really young people. Just a thought... 

My thought exactly.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by CascadeConcrete 

 

So glad this was captured in tape.  My point here isn't to argue whether or not the snow boarder was speeding or out of control.  People can argue that for as long as they want.  Instead i want to bring up the fact that there is a consensus about how inappropriately the snowbasin staff handled the situation.  This doesn’t seem to be an anomaly.  I felt like I was watching a memory because of this was so similar to what happened to me a couple years ago.  Short story is a buddy and I cut rope under a lift so we wouldn’t have to hike around.  Dumb. Whatever.  What happen next was unacceptable.  We started off cooperative, but we immediately met with a disrespectful, dismissive, and stuck-up lifty.  The lifty pulled our passes and then questioned are support for our race team.  She categorized us with other racers placing their faults on us.  And later we noticed a double standard as not 10min had passed and an older man was giving a warning for the same action.  We then continued to see similar traits in from the ski patrol, and upper management of on hill operations.  At one point, after scheduling a meeting with a manager I tried to introduce myself and explain my case.  I held out my hand for a hand shake and he said “I’m not here to be your friend, get out of this lodge.”  There is obviously a problem at snowbasin.  They don’t value their customers.  Skiers should spend their money elsewhere.
As a note, I’m emailing this thread to snowbasin in hopes action is taken.

Staff?  you mean one guy.  The other guy appeared to be an instructor and was angry that the boarder buzzed another instructor with a student.   .   One angry ski patroller, yep,  Worth a boycott?  Don't know.., and seriously, no joke, I am planning my yearly Utah trip and was going to Snowbasin for at least one day.  So my question to anyone who may know is,  is this the norm at this resort?   I mean I like to ski fast as hell, (like many others here), obviously I'm not going to buzz a teacher, but if I go to this resort and hit the top all day long, am I gonna get chased down by ski patrollers??  

"Staff?  you mean one guy."

I said "staff" because from my experience its a staff wide problem. for anyone that is just going off the video, then you are right, the problem was just the patrol guy (although the instructor didn't seem like a class act himself)

Quote:

Originally Posted by CascadeConcrete 

 

So glad this was captured in tape.  My point here isn't to argue whether or not the snow boarder was speeding or out of control.  People can argue that for as long as they want.  Instead i want to bring up the fact that there is a consensus about how inappropriately the snowbasin staff handled the situation.  This doesn’t seem to be an anomaly.  I felt like I was watching a memory because of this was so similar to what happened to me a couple years ago.  Short story is a buddy and I cut rope under a lift so we wouldn’t have to hike around.  Dumb. Whatever.  What happen next was unacceptable.  We started off cooperative, but we immediately met with a disrespectful, dismissive, and stuck-up lifty.  The lifty pulled our passes and then questioned are support for our race team.  She categorized us with other racers placing their faults on us.  And later we noticed a double standard as not 10min had passed and an older man was giving a warning for the same action.  We then continued to see similar traits in from the ski patrol, and upper management of on hill operations.  At one point, after scheduling a meeting with a manager I tried to introduce myself and explain my case.  I held out my hand for a hand shake and he said “I’m not here to be your friend, get out of this lodge.”  There is obviously a problem at snowbasin.  They don’t value their customers.  Skiers should spend their money elsewhere.
As a note, I’m emailing this thread to snowbasin in hopes action is taken.

Please do that, bro. Maybe start a big Web campaign too. There are definitely problems at Snowbasin, and no other resort would ever rip you one for ducking a rope. Fight the power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdiddy 

Staff?  you mean one guy.  The other guy appeared to be an instructor and was angry that the boarder buzzed another instructor with a student.   .   One angry ski patroller, yep,  Worth a boycott?  Don't know.., and seriously, no joke, I am planning my yearly Utah trip and was going to Snowbasin for at least one day.  So my question to anyone who may know is,  is this the norm at this resort?   I mean I like to ski fast as hell, (like many others here), obviously I'm not going to buzz a teacher, but if I go to this resort and hit the top all day long, am I gonna get chased down by ski patrollers??  

 

No. I have never seen anything like the video in my time there, ~5-10 days a year at snowbasin for the last 3 or 4 years.  They seem to provide good customer experience, the video seems like the exception to the rule.
 

    Joe Ut: "Please do that, bro. Maybe start a big Web campaign too. There are definitely problems at Snowbasin, and no other resort would ever rip you one for ducking a rope. Fight the power."

Yep. We'll dig you out come spring.

When I was about 30 the cops suddenly turned from the bad guys to the good guys. Once the patoller used the f-word, he lost. Maybe hurt some little feelings, and it looks bad to mommy and on the internet.

   We don't have a 360 pov like the people on the scene. One of the Park City Medical Center ER docs was late to our Christmas party- he had more than 35 injuries that day from the three Park City resorts, thirty of which had to be sent to the big trauma one hospitals in SLC by lifeflight or ambulance. Patrollers see this stuff all day, just like cops, firefighters and docs.

IMHO. Snow boarder was going slow.  Snow boarder was in control.  Snow boarder was not too close.  The patroler was not in the mood for an argument.  If it came down to who to believe he would believe the ski instructor over some random snowboarder, but he didn't decide who to believe; he made a decision before the argument started.  It was his predetrimend game plan that if the snowboarder politely appologised for coming too close and too fast (even though he didn't), he would have gotten a warning, but since the snowboarder gave him an argument, he got his pass pulled.

Snow boarder should have read "Piggling Bland" when he was a kid, "It's not wise to argue with the police."  It applies to power-tripping patrollers too.

EDIT: Note to self: Don't ski at Snowbasin. 

For the most part, I'm a believer in the "don't argue with the cops/patrollers" theory.  However, there are times when you've just had enough and you need to stand up for yourself and your dignity.  Apologizing for something you didn't do just doesn't work some days.  Sounds like these kids may have had some issues in the past at Snowbasin and maybe they got fed up with it.  As he said, it's a main trail, they were not going fast and not too close to anyone (although that last point is up for debate).  Maybe next time they'll just bolt and the patrollers who eventually catch up with them will ask why they ran and that they were just going to talk and get a warning....

Management is aware of the situation:

https://www.facebook.com/snowbasin

My take:

 the snowboarder "buzzed" the instructor, riding between him and the red coat little kid.

 To be fair, he may have taken a closer line when flagged - ie what does this guy want.

 I think the patroller then decides to fight the instructors battle.

The f-bomb is inexcusable in any circumstance, and especially perplexing in this one:

       he must see the video camera and it is not even a heated situation.

To be fair to the patroller he does calm down and apologize later in the footage.

If I was the instructor that the gaper boarder came so close t. barely in control for 4 inches of air, I would have taken him out 2 turns later.

IF HE WOULD HAVE LEFT MORE ROOM NOTHING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then junior wants to argue...kids just don't get it...

And the old fart troller needs to get laid, badly.

Remember people, wide angle cameras make objects appear farther away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by docbrad66 

The f-bomb is inexcusable in any circumstance, and especially perplexing in this one:

       he must see the video camera and it is not even a heated situation.

 

To be fair to the patrol he does calm down and apologize later in the footage.

  

 

 

 

The patrol appeared to be looking for trouble.  He is a hot head and mean spirited and I hate to see it but this is not uncommon.  He might be good a dealing with injuries, but he's a dick head pure and simple.

He does apologize but did he not still take the pass?  I thought that the kid handled himself very well.  He was reasonable and he spoke with respect considering the circumstances.  He accused them of profiling because of their age.  If it were me I would have had to practice restrain not to react.  I can swear too.

At best this is a warning.

I see too much of this on the mountain - mean spirited ski patrol.  And there are those too who think the situation through and act with reason.  This guy did not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by k2skier 

If I was the instructor that the gaper boarder came so close t. barely in control for 4 inches of air, I would have taken him out 2 turns later.

 

He looked in control to me.

He was a reasonable distance from the instructor (who was not moving) for the speed he was going - looks like 6 feet or more from the still frames.  Wide angle at the filming distance and angle wouldn't distort the distance/gap. That's not how wide angle works. As for the kid, he was way out of the picture. 

Instructor and patroller were off base.  Warning...maybe.  The rest was ridiculous and the patroller should not be allowed to interact with the public.

over-reaction of course.

I would also say that these decisions to turn here or jump there are made in split seconds. He was going fairly slow. He was apologetic and self-deprecating, at first. I feel sorry for the kid in this instance. IMO, it is a stretch to say that he was endangering anyone. rude?  maybe, but not intentionally.

The ganging up of three men on one kid is always wrong. Anyone gets nervous in that situation. The instructor should have yelled at him and end of story. For the second instructor to pile on was bad; he set the tone and escalated the whole thing. IMO, he is the arch villain here.  For the patrol to be antagonistic was bad. Actually, the kid was riding as thousands of skiers and boarders ride every minute.  I have seen bad behavior from kids, every day, but this wasn't that.

Another point in defense of the rider:  I see this all the time; the riders hit the same jumps every run; they connect one jump to the next, connect the dots. again, this is their routine and what gives them stoke.  The boarder did not likely select that jump to endanger anyone or piss anyone off. He was likely doing that jump every single run and figured that although it was a little tight this run, it was still doable. (dare I suggest that an instructor not stop his 4 year old on a kicker that the kids are using when there is a whole mountain to stop on?)

I am 100% behind patrol at my resort. However, I will say, that sometimes a patrol develops a dislike for a skier or boarder, and the treatment that skier gets is not going to be fair, the same as other skiers, or consistent with resort policy. (not saying this is a factor in the video.)

Patrol don't appreciate wise asses, smart alecs, low-lifes, and disrespectful inconsiderate people. At the same time, they have to be aware that all skiers and boarders have not accomplished enlightenment and maturity. You go skiing, you're still the same butt you always were. 

Patroller knew the F-bomb was a losing strategy the second it came out.  His whole mannerism changed.  Few of us haven't experienced a moment we'd have regretted later if it was recorded.  The incident brough to light an issue that management has dealt with.  That's pretty much all you can ask from any organization.  There is plenty of blame to go around, and we can speculate on the safety or public relations aspect, but the point is, we just need more snow.

Looked like a never-ever lesson was going on and while the boarder might have been in complete control and in no danger of hitting the student it wouldn't seem that way to the newby - getting  buzzed by someone whan you're just starting out is terrifying and the instructors are right to try to limit that behavior. 

Patroller lost his cool, which is unprofessional.  I guess I don't have much sympathy for either.

The kid was never out of control and he was not going fast.  He was in chill mode, fasho.  If that kid in the red coat was being taught by the standing still blue coat, why was the instructor looking uphill?  Listened to it at no volume so I missed the language, but the kid shredding the gnar should never have been stopped.