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Firearrow F1 anyone have a direct comparison to a Dalbello Krypton Pro?

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Ok I need new boots. I have loved alot of thing about my Krypton Pros but there is alot I am not loving after 5 years of having this boot. A recent trip with a friend to get some boots had me try on the "ace of spades" boot which is the same last as the "Firearrow F1"

 

Surprise outta of the box fit, and it appears that nordica has addressed alot the things that Dalbello is kinda of sucking at.

 

1. The nordica's have replaceable soles, which the dalbello's do not. Which is nice because being a ski coach I wear though soles really fast.

 

2. Nordica's build quality has got to be better than Dalbello's crappy buckles.

 

 

3.The fit outta of the box is almost spot on.

 

4. they are supposely laterally stiffer. I can feel the krypton fall inwards on high angle turns on groomers.

 

The Only things I am worried about is the flex rating is softer than the stiffest krypton pro setting and the lack of adjust ability with the boot. with the Krypton you are able to adjust nearly everything with in minutes.  i wish I had a firearrow to feel if it is indeed stiffer than than the Ace of spades.

 

has anyone went from a Krypton to a firearrow and had a positive experience? I am so fed up with breaking buckles on the Dalbellos that I am honestly thinking about giving nordica a try blindly. I am just worried because the krypton's have worked for me really well besides the durability issues.

 

 

 

post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

Ok I need new boots. I have loved alot of thing about my Krypton Pros but there is alot I am not loving after 5 years of having this boot. A recent trip with a friend to get some boots had me try on the "ace of spades" boot which is the same last as the "Firearrow F1"

 

Surprise outta of the box fit, and it appears that nordica has addressed alot the things that Dalbello is kinda of sucking at.

 

1. The nordica's have replaceable soles, which the dalbello's do not. Which is nice because being a ski coach I wear though soles really fast.

 

Nordica 1, Dalbello 0

 

2. Nordica's build quality has got to be better than Dalbello's crappy buckles.

 

Nordica 2, Dalbello 0

 

 

3.The fit outta of the box is almost spot on.

 

Nordica 3, Dalbello 0

 

4. they are supposely laterally stiffer (they are....dramatically). I can feel the krypton fall inwards on high angle turns on groomers.

 

Nordica 4, Dalbello 0

 

The Only things I am worried about is the flex rating is softer than the stiffest krypton pro setting and the lack of adjust ability with the boot. with the Krypton you are able to adjust nearly everything with in minutes.  i wish I had a firearrow to feel if it is indeed stiffer than than the Ace of spades. (F-1 is........quite a bit)

 

Nordica 5, Dalbello 0

 

has anyone went from a Krypton to a firearrow and had a positive experience? I am so fed up with breaking buckles on the Dalbellos that I am honestly thinking about giving nordica a try blindly. I am just worried because the krypton's have worked for me really well besides the durability issues.

 

 

 


Shutout.

 

SJ

 

post #3 of 14

What's up with the orange boots Josh?

post #4 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

What's up with the orange boots Josh?



The infenro 130s have just such a weird flex and snow feel for me and literally bruised my shins using them. The only positive was the they hold and a great edge on grooms but sucks everywhere else(for me).

 

The inferno 130 feels very upright, the flex is retardedly stiff and then REALLY soft and then you hit a brick wall(aka bruised shins), they are bitch to get on and off, the cuff feels low, and there is like no snow feel.Intertingly they fit my foot with out any work which is something I did not expect. I feel like I a 60 year old man who has no idea how to balance skiing in them. I am going to take the Metal chassis out and try them again though.

 

when try to ski the whales on gondolier I could not remain with me skis at all I kept getting thrown back. When hitting choppy bumps at speed they just killed my shins. I am pretty much sold that the cabrio for me is a better design.

 

SJ would you say the for and aft flex of the Firearrow F1 is comparable to a stiffest setting on a Krypton?

post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post


SJ would you say the for and aft flex of the Firearrow F1 is comparable to a stiffest setting on a Krypton?


No, in fact the F-A flex on an F-1 is one of the stiffest out there. Nordica has reinvented the flex index thing with a new and different index with differing flex parameters from what everyone else is using. Their marketing story is that the lateral is more important and that you don't need much F-A range. Probably true enough and the F-1 skis fine but it's kinda strange. Honestly, I would't suggest you order them blindly. I think you better find some to try on b/c that flex range is really different and for someone coming out of a Flexxon/Krypton........you may not like it.

 

SJ

post #6 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



The infenro 130s have just such a weird flex and snow feel for me and literally bruised my shins using them. The only positive was the they hold and a great edge on grooms but sucks everywhere else(for me).

 

The inferno 130 feels very upright, the flex is retardedly stiff and then REALLY soft and then you hit a brick wall(aka bruised shins), they are bitch to get on and off, the cuff feels low, and there is like no snow feel.Intertingly they fit my foot with out any work which is something I did not expect. I feel like I a 60 year old man who has no idea how to balance skiing in them. I am going to take the Metal chassis out and try them again though.

 

when try to ski the whales on gondolier I could not remain with me skis at all I kept getting thrown back. When hitting choppy bumps at speed they just killed my shins. I am pretty much sold that the cabrio for me is a better design.

 

SJ would you say the for and aft flex of the Firearrow F1 is comparable to a stiffest setting on a Krypton?



Harb told me over 12 years ago that Technica was the most disfunctional boot on the market. FWIW, he's not too high on the Krypton's, either. There was an article years ago in Inside Tracks about the "unique" characteristics of Technica boots. Peter Keelty also did a comparison on his website of the Technica boots that are sold to the public as compared to their boots that are used by their sponsored athletes, and the difference in the functionality was striking. Do you think maybe there's a chance that a couple of 60 year olds might be onto something? Oh, and by the way, I'm 60 years old, and I seem to be able to balance in my boots just fine. And I'll give you a hint: they're not Technicas or Kryptons.wink.gif

 

post #7 of 14

Well, as usual I'll take a contrarian stance.  snowfight.gifI own the Dalbello Cross with the B tongue, which makes it a Pro sans stiffer footbed. And I tried on a Firearrow F3 and F1, so cannot speak to on-slope, but can speak to fit and flex at store temp.

 

1) They have radically different lasts, so I'm surprised that the Nordies fit you right out of the box but you also like the fit of the Pros. For me, the Firearrows were amazing in the front - great toe box and nice treatment of the 6th toe - but a disaster in back. There was an odd pocket of extra volume between just forward of my ankle bones to a few cm above the heel, then the heel bottom itself was fairly snug. OTOH, my Cross's are cramped in front, with no clear recognition of what a human forefoot is shaped like, while the ankle is evenly snug. This year's incidentally are a touch larger in front, still nothing to write home about. Lesson: We all got wildly different feet and pressure points.

 

2) The Krypton B tongue supposedly flexes at 120, I'd give it a 110-115. With another 5 points from a Intuition wrap, that's a sweet spot IMO. The F3 felt more like a 100 or so, and the F1 felt like an honest 120, no more. Slightly stiffer than the B tongue, but mainly, a very different flex pattern. Lesson: I think there's massive grade inflation in estimating flex. (Will eschew quip about correlations to private plumbing length. Or ski length.) If you start with race plugs as being fairly accurate benchmarks of flex and work backwards, there's no way all these rec boots are 130 and north. Unless you want to say, yep, recs have caught up to plugs, or at least to where plugs used to be, and that's a desirable thing, since we all used to advocate plugs for variable snow, bumps, and pow. Hmmm.

 

3) Did not find the F1 dramatically stiffer or softer laterally than the Cross/Pro, but that's in the shop and it's tough to guesstimate on-slope outcomes. The F1 felt a bit quicker. so that might translate as stiffer laterally. The F3 felt slower and less rigid laterally. I find the Cross to be as quick side to side as a good overlap like my Falcon 10's or some Technicas I've owned. Maybe a bit less than a higher end Lange. Again, have to ask how vital extreme lateral reactivity is in the terrain cabrios are optimized for. th_dunno-1[1].gif Lesson: Maybe god intended us to own two pairs of boots, one for rec racing groomers and one for hopping along in the trees. 

 

4) The Firearrow design is a overlap pretending to be a three piece. By that I mean that the feel of the F1/F3 as you flex forward is very two-piece-ish, with that initial stiffness, then easier, then serious stiffening and some minor shell deformation if you really push it. Whereas the Cross/Pro has a typical linear flex that can feel like you're falling forward if you expect things to feel like a two-piece. Lesson: IMO the selling points of a three piece are not that they're radically quicker side to side, or god's gift to tip pressuring, but that a) the heel lockdown due to buckle location works, b) the boot tongue absorbs shocks rather than transmit them to your ankle and leg, c) a cabrio seems to enjoy a more neutral stance like you'd deploy on many modern skis in soft snow more than an overlap, and d) yes, they go on and off easier. Which if you've wrestled with a few brands I can think of, can be non-trivial. 

 

Anyway, I also recall that SJ wasn't exactly ah, on fire about the Firearrows a coupla months ago when we last discussed them. SJ, has your opinion picked up, or do your ratings just reflect a foundational dislike of cabrio designs, so that you'd pick a Scott over a Dalbello? biggrin.gif


Edited by beyond - 12/28/11 at 1:45pm
post #8 of 14

There are few that were more proponents for the Krypton than me, I was a the first person who's paycheck was not made out by Dalbello to get a pair. Mine were so fresh, that I received them w/o liners (there were none available yet) . Six years later, I went from a Krypton into an Inferno 130 and the transition was seamless. While in a 26 Krypton shell, the 25 Inferno shell actually felt better. I had to make two modifications to the Infernos, I softened the shells (lowers) a bit and I had to at a tongue shim to take up volume for my chicken legs. In adjusting for the skinny legs, I also took bout 1/4" of material from the 3rd buckle strap. In fact, I actually had to do more work (including Cuff and complete canting)cto my Kryptons than the Infernos. With all that said, I really liked the upright stance of the Inferno compared to the Krypton and like BW said the groomer performance was far superior and while I am not 60 (yet) I had no issue off piste in trees and steeps. Personally, I find the current Tecnica stance (Inferno & Demon/Sidecountry series) to work very well and would endorse them to anyone as long as they matched their foot shape. 

 

I know BW has been in the Krypton for a few seasons w/hundreds of days...how do I know...I feel like G Dubya...I know they have WOMD..because we sold them to them, daym it !!!..I supplied BW with his two pair of Kryptons. The buckle issue...sure, they loose buckles...I just learned to make sure screws were tight..the tool benches at ski areas should also have a regular philips just for Krypton wearers. IMHO, he should give the Infernos a chance, it is a damn good boot and I think with a bit of work..it still has possibilities. 

post #9 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac View Post



Harb told me over 12 years ago that Technica was the most disfunctional boot on the market. FWIW, he's not too high on the Krypton's, either. There was an article years ago in Inside Tracks about the "unique" characteristics of Technica boots. Peter Keelty also did a comparison on his website of the Technica boots that are sold to the public as compared to their boots that are used by their sponsored athletes, and the difference in the functionality was striking. Do you think maybe there's a chance that a couple of 60 year olds might be onto something? Oh, and by the way, I'm 60 years old, and I seem to be able to balance in my boots just fine. And I'll give you a hint: they're not Technicas or Kryptons.wink.gif

 

 

well maybe your better than me then because in the 130s I was all over the place. people watching me said i d looked good but I did not not feel good. With that said the guys skiing the plug Tecnica who have also skied the inferno 130s said that the Plug was smooth more progressive flex and was a better boot for more people.

 

Ideal I would buy a krypton with a flex that went outward as it went foward(instead of inward), which would make it harb approved was stiffer laterally, had replaceable soles and had nordica buckles.

 

I honestly am thinking about trying to take one my destroyed kryptons and remake them.

 

post #10 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Well, as usual I'll take a contrarian stance.  snowfight.gifI own the Dalbello Cross with the B tongue, which makes it a Pro sans stiffer footbed. And I tried on a Firearrow F3 and F1, so cannot speak to on-slope, but can speak to fit and flex at store temp.

 

1) They have radically different lasts, so I'm surprised that the Nordies fit you right out of the box but you also like the fit of the Pros. For me, the Firearrows were amazing in the front - great toe box and nice treatment of the 6th toe - but a disaster in back. There was an odd pocket of extra volume between just forward of my ankle bones to a few cm above the heel, then the heel bottom itself was fairly snug. OTOH, my Cross's are cramped in front, with no clear recognition of what a human forefoot is shaped like, while the ankle is evenly snug. This year's incidentally are a touch larger in front, still nothing to write home about. Lesson: We all got wildly different feet and pressure points.

 

2) The Krypton B tongue supposedly flexes at 120, I'd give it a 110-115. With another 5 points from a Intuition wrap, that's a sweet spot IMO. The F3 felt more like a 100 or so, and the F1 felt like an honest 120, no more. Slightly stiffer than the B tongue, but mainly, a very different flex pattern. Lesson: I think there's massive grade inflation in estimating flex. (Will eschew quip about correlations to private plumbing length. Or ski length.) If you start with race plugs as being fairly accurate benchmarks of flex and work backwards, there's no way all these rec boots are 130 and north. Unless you want to say, yep, recs have caught up to plugs, or at least to where plugs used to be, and that's a desirable thing, since we all used to advocate plugs for variable snow, bumps, and pow. Hmmm.

 

3) Did not find the F1 dramatically stiffer or softer laterally than the Cross/Pro, but that's in the shop and it's tough to guesstimate on-slope outcomes. The F1 felt a bit quicker. so that might translate as stiffer laterally. The F3 felt slower and less rigid laterally. I find the Cross to be as quick side to side as a good overlap like my Falcon 10's or some Technicas I've owned. Maybe a bit less than a higher end Lange. Again, have to ask how vital extreme lateral reactivity is in the terrain cabrios are optimized for. th_dunno-1[1].gif Lesson: Maybe god intended us to own two pairs of boots, one for rec racing groomers and one for hopping along in the trees. 

 

4) The Firearrow design is a overlap pretending to be a three piece. By that I mean that the feel of the F1/F3 as you flex forward is very two-piece-ish, with that initial stiffness, then easier, then serious stiffening and some minor shell deformation if you really push it. Whereas the Cross/Pro has a typical linear flex that can feel like you're falling forward if you expect things to feel like a two-piece. Lesson: IMO the selling points of a three piece are not that they're radically quicker side to side, or god's gift to tip pressuring, but that a) the heel lockdown due to buckle location works, b) the boot tongue absorbs shocks rather than transmit them to your ankle and leg, c) a cabrio seems to enjoy a more neutral stance like you'd deploy on many modern skis in soft snow more than an overlap, and d) yes, they go on and off easier. Which if you've wrestled with a few brands I can think of, can be non-trivial. 

 

Anyway, I also recall that SJ wasn't exactly ah, on fire about the Firearrows a coupla months ago when we last discussed them. SJ, has your opinion picked up, or do your ratings just reflect a foundational dislike of cabrio designs, so that you'd pick a Scott over a Dalbello? biggrin.gif



My kryptons have been worked quite a bit. in the 6th toe area.

post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 

I honestly am thinking about trying to take one my destroyed kryptons and remake them.

 


Check out this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5b8Sh9vhJWE&context=C27ac2ADOEgsToPDskJSayv2V5XfnFFZlMlPG0MR if you like Frankenboots. Actually, seems like a very cool general concept. Go for it and post a video.

 

post #12 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post


Anyway, I also recall that SJ wasn't exactly ah, on fire about the Firearrows a coupla months ago when we last discussed them. SJ, has your opinion picked up, or do your ratings just reflect a foundational dislike of cabrio designs, so that you'd pick a Scott over a Dalbello? biggrin.gif



My opinion has not changed, I simply answered the question that BW axed which was Krypton Vs F-1.

 

FWIW........I was given a KP a few years back, fiddled with it for couple months and decided it wasn't for me. If I had to ski in one or t'other, it would be an FA but there are fair number of conventional race bred boots that I'd choose first over either one.

 

Would I pick a Scott over a Dalbello........wellllll........which Scott??????

 

SJ

post #13 of 14


Try on a new pair of Kryptons the shell has been re-worked a bit and should fit you better. The out of the box fit (new Krypton) was so much better than my old pair that had hours of boot fitting in them. They call the re-work Contour 4 " A little extra “space” is molded into the inside of the boot shell at 4 critical fit points: ankle, heel, 5th met atarsal, & navicular"

 

If you want crappy buckles check out the FT Classic!! At least all of the Krypton Buckles have screw rivets and metal buckles.

 

How many days do you have on these boots?? 5 Years and your a Coach are you a freestyle/bump Guy?

 

 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



My kryptons have been worked quite a bit. in the 6th toe area.



 

post #14 of 14
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidmarks View Post


Try on a new pair of Kryptons the shell has been re-worked a bit and should fit you better. The out of the box fit (new Krypton) was so much better than my old pair that had hours of boot fitting in them. They call the re-work Contour 4 " A little extra “space” is molded into the inside of the boot shell at 4 critical fit points: ankle, heel, 5th met atarsal, & navicular"

 

If you want crappy buckles check out the FT Classic!! At least all of the Krypton Buckles have screw rivets and metal buckles.

 

How many days do you have on these boots?? 5 Years and your a Coach are you a freestyle/bump Guy?

 

 

 


 



 



about 200 days per pair I have had 3 pairs.....

 

whatever I get is getting yack tracked and I am going to switch to other buckles for the kryptons if I get them.

 

 

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