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What ski boot (2011-2012) this year do you think is better than any boot you have owned in performance and fit? - Page 2

post #31 of 46

QFT
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

 

Biggest difference to me: boots can't usually be resold like skis can.
 

 



 

post #32 of 46

Dynafit uses carbon on some of its touring boots. Don't know about others...

 

 440

 

 

GRE.jpg

post #33 of 46

thats the problem, its a pure race thoroughbred; it has no other purpose. You take away what makes it unique, fast, responsive your ruined the boot.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

I think the main trend in boots is increased customization that is required to achieve close and comfortable fit.  It will be extremely difficult to achieve this level of customization with carbon fiber technology.  I can see some parts of a boot being made of carbon fiber to reduce weight and increase the power transmission, but other parts would have to be made of malleable or grind-able material to allow for a close fit. The only possibility I see for carbon boots going mainstream would be if they get coupled with a new liner technology that would allow durable close fit with increased power transmission and reasonable comfort.  Some of those traits may be an inherent contradiction, so this will be quite a technical challenge.   



 

post #34 of 46

I've been ogling the Dodge boots as well, though I don't want to pay the current price for them.  I like the idea of a boot that's lighter, very stiff laterally, and doesn't get soft when it gets warm.  I've also heard the Dodge boots don't leak and are easy to put on.  Since I currently ski everything in a plug boot anyway, I don't really see these boots as a one-trick pony.  I see them as a better version of what I'm in now.

 

The other boot I've been ogling is the Dynafit TLT5 Performance.  The cuff is carbon fiber for stiffness and light weight, and I really like how the ski/walk mode is integrated with the top buckle.  I was talked into trying on a pair in St Anton last year, and nearly brought them home with me.  I like the idea of a light boot that can still drive a beefier ski.

post #35 of 46

I ski in the dodge boots and this is my second season in them. The boots are stiff but they don't ski nearly that stiff. By playing with buckle tightness you can dial in a flex that is way less than a 150 WC flex (of course if you slam down the buckles you can get to a 180 Flex). I can't ski in anything else now which seems to be what everyone who tries them says. The lightness and responsiveness and quickness is unparalleled  and they weigh about half as much as regular boots. The CF is also much thinner than plastic so everyone seems to go down a size (I ski a 305 BSL in the Dodge and was in 313mm BSL in my Head Raptor 150's). It's also much thinner than a plastic boot so you have substantailly increased lateral leverage. For any skier that can use their edges and does this with lateral pressure on the skis, it is a game changer in all conditions. I wouldn't ski anything else in trees, steeps, bumps, crud and powder. Of course on hard snow they just rock.

 

The price seems high but most people are in boots for 300+ days which for many can mean 10 years. Many people buy 1-2 new sets of skis per year. Amnortized over the life of the boot it doesn't amount to a lot versus a good plug or semi plug which cost $800+ currently.

 

I also agree that in 5 years there will be numerous options in CF boots. Prices may come down some and features and performance will probably increase. But I am not that young and I am glad I have them now!!

post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hedgedskier View Post

I ski in the dodge boots and this is my second season in them. The boots are stiff but they don't ski nearly that stiff. By playing with buckle tightness you can dial in a flex that is way less than a 150 WC flex (of course if you slam down the buckles you can get to a 180 Flex). I can't ski in anything else now which seems to be what everyone who tries them says. The lightness and responsiveness and quickness is unparalleled  and they weigh about half as much as regular boots. The CF is also much thinner than plastic so everyone seems to go down a size (I ski a 305 BSL in the Dodge and was in 313mm BSL in my Head Raptor 150's). It's also much thinner than a plastic boot so you have substantailly increased lateral leverage. For any skier that can use their edges and does this with lateral pressure on the skis, it is a game changer in all conditions. I wouldn't ski anything else in trees, steeps, bumps, crud and powder. Of course on hard snow they just rock.

 

The price seems high but most people are in boots for 300+ days which for many can mean 10 years. Many people buy 1-2 new sets of skis per year. Amnortized over the life of the boot it doesn't amount to a lot versus a good plug or semi plug which cost $800+ currently.

 

I also agree that in 5 years there will be numerous options in CF boots. Prices may come down some and features and performance will probably increase. But I am not that young and I am glad I have them now!!




funny that very few Pro freeriders who get paid to ski powder and trees think very differently from you.

post #37 of 46

I think he is expressing his own opinion based on his experience which does not conflict with what you say. What he says could still be true as long as these pro freeriders have not tried the dodge boots unless you know otherwise. We won't know until one pro try the boots and does not like them.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




funny that very few Pro freeriders who get paid to ski powder and trees think very differently from you.



 

post #38 of 46
Perhaps a pro free rider is not looking for an ultimately responsive ski boot, but rather for an optimal combination of control and shock absorption at high speed in variable snow.
post #39 of 46

Nelson Riley skis them and loves them. I am not sure we are at a point in their evolution where anything other than handful of people have even tried the boots. Atomic has a CF race boot that evidently their racers don't like. Others will be forthcoming. Let's come back to the question and issue of Pro Freeriders in 5 years. And the same issues exist with them as do with WC skiers in that they all have contracts with boot co's and can't ski anything else and they won't be on a CF boot until ther sponsor has one.

post #40 of 46

Carbon fiber elements will exist within ski boot design, full carbon will never become norm.

post #41 of 46

I'm still searching for the perfect pair of alpine ski boots.frown.gif

 

The closest pair to fit, comfort, and performance were my Salomon X-Wave 8's. Out of box fit was pretty good. But the liner started packing out after about 10 days on them. It was a heat moldable liner, which I found I could put into a convection oven at 200F, and re-expand the liner. That became less, and less effective after time. And the boot was not stiff enough for my biggest and burliest ski.

 

I switched to a pair of Tecnica Agent 120's (98mm last) 2 years ago. Great performance, light boot for hiking, but the fit was just always a work in progress. I spent about $80-$100 having them punched, ground, and stretched, and still I had hot spots.Getting out of that boot was just the most painful experience too. Didn't notice it when I was trying them on at the ski shop. But once in the cold mtn air...ouch! Couldn't ski a whole day in them. But dang, they just worked like a charm with my Dynastar XXL's! Instant feedback, great snow feel, very precise. Just wish the fit and comfort would had been better suited to my feet.

 

I am now on a pair of Fischer Progressor 120's. The comfort is very good. It's a 100mm last but so far so good with the fit, I hust wear a slightly thicker ski sock, as opposed to the thinnest ski sock on the market. Flex is not quite what I had hoped for. Will look into options to stiffen it up just a tad. But the liner is the most comfortable of any boot I have had. Super easy to slide my foot on and off, and it's a warm liner, where as my Tecnica's always had my feet a bit cold. Probably due to poor circulation and the really thin sock I had to wear. I especially like the heel gel/cork pad. It just locks my heel down.

post #42 of 46


 

 

 

 

 

 

I just started sking the Dodge and the power transmission is unbelievable. Yes, it would be awesome to put an intuition powerwrap in a dodge but that is not currently a reality. After skiing the Dodge, my old plastic boots seem to have a lag time between pressuring the ski and the ski turning. (I never realized until I skied the dodge.) The dodge seems to be instantaneous.

 

They can't be fit like the fischer vacuum but what other boot can? True, it can't be made in a plug boot and worked to the skiers foot but its not really an apples to apples comparison. The boots can be fit very precisely and can be foamed for the serious racers. This is definitely the future of ski boots. The dodge may not be for everyone but I believe they set the trend.

 

My concern for the fischer vacuum, aside from all the comments lately about the liner being junk, is that the temp sensitive plastic needed to mold will vary too much with skiing temps. The carbon fiber is the same flex in the shop as it is on snow.

 

I agree with hedgeskier, there are not many people skiing on these but I haven't hear one negative post about them. They are not a one trick pony they seems to rock in a variety of conditions. I believe future generations will see different models for different purposes as well as mens, ladies, kids, etc.

 

Hedgeskier is also correct about using the buckles to adjust flex. The shell doesn't open up like a plastic boot and the support is so much that you can buckle looser to get more flex

 

Johnny

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Edited by johnnysdg - 1/14/12 at 8:25pm
post #43 of 46

For me it's Head's i-Type rear entry boots.

post #44 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnysdg View Post

 

I just started sking the Dodge and the power transmission is unbelievable. Yes, it would be awesome to put an intuition powerwrap in a dodge but that is not currently a reality. After skiing the Dodge, my old plastic boots seem to have a lag time between pressuring the ski and the ski turning. (I never realized until I skied the dodge.) The dodge seems to be instantaneous.

 

They can't be fit like the fischer vacuum but what other boot can? True, it can't be made in a plug boot and worked to the skiers foot but its not really an apples to apples comparison. The boots can be fit very precisely and can be foamed for the serious racers. This is definitely the future of ski boots. The dodge may not be for everyone but I believe they set the trend.

 

My concern for the fischer vacuum, aside from all the comments lately about the liner being junk, is that the temp sensitive plastic needed to mold will vary too much with skiing temps. The carbon fiber is the same flex in the shop as it is on snow.

 

I agree with hedgeskier, there are not many people skiing on these but I haven't hear one negative post about them. They are not a one trick pony they seems to rock in a variety of conditions. I believe future generations will see different models for different purposes as well as mens, ladies, kids, etc.

 

Hedgeskier is also correct about using the buckles to adjust flex. The shell doesn't open up like a plastic boot and the support is so much that you can buckle looser to get more flex

 

Johnny

.

 

Not certain what you are talking about regarding the temp changes with the Fischer Vacuum.  Based on ALL the reviews, the new Vacuum's do NOT change flex at different temps.  That is one of it's strengths.  Carbon fiber elements are OK in some boots and crap in other boots and is nothing NEW in the boot industry AT ALL.  Heck, my 2004 Rossi's have a carbon fiber tongue in them and it does help them stay stiff even after all these years but CF is really nothing new in ski boots.  I did find a pair of the Dodge's in my size for $400 but IMHO I'd rather have the Vacuum's even if they were a bit more

post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post

Carbon boots will be like carbon bikes, racquets, bats and carbon everything else.  Wait five years for the big companies with real R & D budgets to work out the kinks and produce a superior and cheaper product.  The Dodge is a cool idea, but I have no interest in spending 1500.00 to be a field researcher for what is a developing product.

 

I remember carbon bikes from 10 years ago that cost a fortune and couldn't hold a candle to today's average carbon frames that cost half as much.  It'll be the same with carbon boots.

 

 

 

Maybe even as soon as...TODAY.  Here's a pair for $399!

post #46 of 46
Check out the custom fit Ertlenz boots from Germany. There's is a YouTube video from Gorsouch in Vail showing the Fitting process. Cost for the boots I think is $2,500 . Boot is fully heated. Not just the toes. Can't see what this fitting process achieves that the Fischer vaumn doesn't. In the Ertlenz process it is my understanding they are building a boot to fit a cast of you leg and foot along with a foam liner. Would think with the Vacumn being molded to your leg and foot configurations you would be achieving the same things at a much lower cost. Maybe I'm wishing something with the Ertlenz system. I've watched them do it a couple of times at Gorsouch and it's pretty cool.
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