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How to minimize base burn

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 

Toko US with Ian Harvey has put together a series of tuning and waxing videos. Many of the videos include Willi Wiltz, the infamous WC ski tech.

 

This video shows how to apply cold powder wax along the ski edge to minimize excessive base burn which can occur in highly abrasive snows, such as man made or icy conditions.

 

post #2 of 14

I've been thinking about that since watching the vid a while ago. Anybody do this? My bases never seem to take wax as well along the edges. I always assumed the metal edge was acting a bit as a heat sink but maybe it's burn (no visible grey). I'd be interested to know if anybody does this, especially on GS and Slalom skis where the middle 80% of the base spends very little time in contact with snow.

 

And, would this be a regular practice? Base prep for new skis? Will those portions of the base then accept a softer wax on top? Does it really matter (assuming we're talking race skis)?

post #3 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohoen View Post

I've been thinking about that since watching the vid a while ago. Anybody do this? .....

And, would this be a regular practice? Base prep for new skis? Will those portions of the base then accept a softer wax on top? Does it really matter (assuming we're talking race skis)?

This is a fairly common practice although there are a few variations to the method. We do it routinely with newly ground skis that will see cold snow right away. After saturating them with a base prep we will apply a cold powder wax (we use Dominator Psycho, other common powders are Toko x-cold and Swix CH3), scrape lightly, then wax with a harder wax on top.  

 

For bases that seem prone to base burn (typically softer Electra bases) we use this step routinely: For medium and cold snow we apply the powder first, then the day wax. The area treated with the powder wax will accept the softer wax readily. If you do it the other way around the ski will be slower on edge.  For very cold or very abrasive snow we apply the day wax first, then the powder along the edge.  This step does make a difference, the fuzzy part of the base can be quite slow.

 

 

post #4 of 14

Is there such thing as a super-cold powder with a lubricant additive pre-mixed into it?

 

...looking for something to replace LFG4  in my wax box.

post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Is there such thing as a super-cold powder with a lubricant additive pre-mixed into it?

 

...looking for something to replace LFG4  in my wax box.


Both Dominator Psycho New Snow and Dominator Psycho Old Snow contain extreme pressure lubricants.  They are not listed on the site but you can contact the US office for more info.

 

Keep in mind that all these powder waxes (Psycho, Toko x-cold, Swix CH3 or LF3 run a little colder than the now defunct LFG4 you want to replace.

 

 

post #6 of 14


Thanks.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thanos K View Post

 


Keep in mind that all these powder waxes (Psycho, Toko x-cold, Swix CH3 or LF3 run a little colder than the now defunct LFG4 you want to replace.

 



Kept in mind it is - and the old LFG4 was the best I could get at the time, not the best imaginable.

post #7 of 14

Thanks Thanos K, I'll give it a try next season.

post #8 of 14

Another approach used by several racers  is to run a line of Holmenkol Ultra (Blue) down each edge as well as the chosen wax of the day (typically Beta)

post #9 of 14
Hey guys. So Thanos what about spring conditions when I might use a warm weather wax? Would you put the powder along the edges first then the warm wax?

If you put the powder on first do you melt it first, scrape it, then put the warm wax on?
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

... So Thanos what about spring conditions when I might use a warm weather wax? Would you put the powder along the edges first then the warm wax?
If you put the powder on first do you melt it first, scrape it, then put the warm wax on?



Do you get base burn near your edge in spring conditions? It is uncommon to need an extra cold powder wax in the spring. What is common is that the snow can be very hard in the morning (especially after a clear night), and then get softer and wetter as the day progresses. In these cases we wax with a hard wax (typically for -7C and colder) for the morning hours and take a bar of softer (0C to -7C) fluoro wax with us, a piece of Scotchbrite (a wax wizzard would be better, I guess) and a brush. When the snow gets wet, we stop for a coffee rub the soft wax on the base, buff well with scotchbrite and brush out. Around five minutes invested and we enjoy good glide the rest of the day. The rubbed on wax can be quite durable on soft, wet snow.

post #11 of 14
Interesting. In the Northeast this year it's been a perpetual Spring, at least in Southern New England. Lots of days of icy in the morning and not really slush, but piled up sugar and somewhat wet snow in the afternoon. So I get some burn, not a lot. Been using Dominator Zoom and recently tried some Toko LF Dibloc Yellow. That's the one that I would consider adding the cold powder to (still have some around from a couple of years ago.)

These are new Blizzard Magnum 7.6 skis so the still haven't gotten that impregnated yet, in spite of multiple waxings this season, so they do get a little white near the edges.
post #12 of 14
Thanos, the Yellow Toko isn't anywhere near as warm a temp range as the Yellow Swix (LF12.)

Toko LF Dibloc Yellow - Snow Temp: 25F / 32F (-4C / 0C)

I'm sure you're right that the snow temps are a lot lower then I'm thinking, because even when it gets springlike in the afternoons it's not a wet snow, more like sugar, sometimes almost like sand.

My wife's skis have been all Zoom this year while I've been experimenting with the LF Diblocs on my skis. Her skis are looking better then mine.

I'm going to try your technique but with the Red LF Dibloc on top and see how that works. Running out of Dominator and have the three blocks of Toko, so I want to use it.

I did use Graphite a lot, ran out and went back to the regular Zoom, because of how much the graphite discolors the bases. Interesting that you generally prefer it. When I buy more I'll buy the Graphite again.
post #13 of 14

I find this prep works good for prevention of base burn - after an initial post grind prep, or a base burn removal by hand

 

Swix

 

1 layer MB 77

2 layer BP 77

3 layer CH3 or LF3

4 layer Whatever temp wax for the day of skiing

 

good luck

 

 

post #14 of 14

SMJ, if you get a chance to try  Psycho with LF Dibloc, I'd be real interested.

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