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How to ski bumps dynamically - Page 2  

post #31 of 98

I've tried to stay on the sidelines for several years now, but I must say the  Bushwacker has finally pushed me  over the cornice. For Bushwacker  to dismiss skier after skier ripping bump lines and then saying that they should ski more like he does is a joke. Bushwacker, you are not that good!!  You are delusionary in your perceived ability. The video you put up was a joke compared to the way Blake Saunders and most of the others skied. End of rant.

post #32 of 98

A straighter faster line with absorption/extension is more offensive than the easy round slow line demo'd earlier.

 

More dynamic bump skiing --

 

 

 

 

post #33 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

Definition (for purpose of this thread): dynamic = fast but easy on the body

 

What do you focus on?



Hi Chuck

I would say, you need to practice one thing at a time.  That would be the thing to focus on.

I think this guy Chuck Martin has the entire deal dialled-in and he puts it over very intelligently. This is the best bump-skiing I have ever seen.

Stacked alignment - you can't absorb if you are twisted. You need to be aligned to the bump - so it can look like there is a lot of inclination going on.  No turn-N-Scrape, you push the skis straight down the backside of the bump.  Only then do you twist them when you extend. 

There's a whole series of lessons.

 

Love bumps

 

 

post #34 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
therusty I do not think being athletic is hard on the body. 

...

 

before I get crap for talking crap about everyone elses example. first ask yourself what is a offensive skiing? what is defensive skiing? going fast doesnt make you an offensive skier its an tactical attitude towards the mountain and giving it to mountain instead of letting it give it back to you. With that said you still need to know defensive movements just do not make them a habit.

 

 

 

 

 

Let's remember Chuck's original definition:

Definition (for purpose of this thread): dynamic = fast but easy on the body
 

As I creep closer to retirement age, I'm becoming more sympathetic to the concept of athletic movements being hard on the body. But I still hold the opinion that athletic movements make skiing easier on a net expenditure basis. We've seen some great clips in this thread including excellent demonstration of absorption skills. But many non-mogul skiers will look at these examples and conclude that these examples demonstrate "hard on the body". In the examples where you see bending forward at the waist after impact, I'd agree. But in many of the clips, the range of movement of the lower body makes it look "hard", but what you have to look at is the change in speed of the feet relative to the hips to accurately judge "hardness". Where you see little difference in speed, you'll find the skiers describing their run as (relatively) "effortless". So although I'm not fond of the given definition of dynamic, the question to Chuck "have you seen fast but easy on the body mogul skiing in these clips yet?" The really stupid question is "if one had a pair of skis long enough to span across the tops of the moguls and simply straight lined the run always being supported by the tops of the moguls, would that be dynamic mogul skiing?"

 

Although I'm sympathetic to the definition of using one's edges set against the path of travel to control speed as defensive and using edges to turn the skis to control speed as offensive (my interpretation of the debate), the general public would not view zipper line skiing at the speeds seen in this thread as defensive no matter what technique is being used. It really doesn't matter with respect to Chuck's question. I love to use edge sets to check speed in the bumps and I love to use edge engagement to turn the skis in the bumps. Either way can get you down the bumps. Either way can be easy or hard on the body depending on how you do it and how you define "hard" on the body. "Carving" through the bumps looks "easier", but is generally slower. "Bashing" through the bumps looks "harder", but is generally faster.

 

Earth to Chuck - you still out there?

 

post #35 of 98

Love the austrian mogul skiing video...very much a fine example of dynamic bump skiing.

 

Guys, all the mogul skiing videos in this thread are great.  But the whole defensive vs. offensive skiing is pedantic nonsense and a real distraction. 

 

All good mogul skiing is more or less 'dynamic', but the energy and the athletic dynamism of some is far greater than others.  CVJ's and Bush's is quality mogul skiing, for sure.   It is typical high quality instructor, glued to the snow type stuff that students are often encouraged to pursue. 

 

But honestly, the dynamic, athletic, energetic, and, yes, entertaining level of Seasted and Crew,  The Austrian Mogul Gang, the Classic fistful of Moguls, and Much of the Berger et al. videos just hopelessly outpaces the other videos shown (with Blake Saunders getting an honorable mention for a really good all mountain skiing and mogul clip).

 

Simply put, I'd be happy to take a lesson on bumps from guys who ski like Bushwacker and CVJ.  But, for entertaining and inspiring dynamic bump skiing, I'd watch (and re-watch) those other videos (Seasted, Austrians, Berger) again and again.

post #36 of 98

I second the motion to watch the Chuck Martin video series. Great lessons on absorption/extension. Mr. Martin explains that speed control in the bumps is 50% turns and 50% absorption. A point overlooked to often.

 


Edited by skiatansky - 12/26/11 at 6:01pm
post #37 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by pud View Post

I've tried to stay on the sidelines for several years now, but I must say the  Bushwacker has finally pushed me  over the cornice. For Bushwacker  to dismiss skier after skier ripping bump lines and then saying that they should ski more like he does is a joke. Bushwacker, you are not that good!!  You are delusionary in your perceived ability. The video you put up was a joke compared to the way Blake Saunders and most of the others skied. End of rant.

 

I am not dismissing their ability all I am saying is that is is defensive skiing. My video was put up to show slow line fast skiing that is dynamic with out being jarring.
 

Blake Saunders could not ski bumps like me from what I have seen in his video. I would bet my entire life on it. At the same time I never ski bump by bashing because its it high wear and tear skiing IMO.

 

by the way whats your name so I can hate on you in real life as well?

 

 

post #38 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 

I am not dismissing their ability all I am saying is that is is defensive skiing.

 

 


No, it is not.

 

post #39 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

 

Let's remember Chuck's original definition:

Definition (for purpose of this thread): dynamic = fast but easy on the body
 

As I creep closer to retirement age, I'm becoming more sympathetic to the concept of athletic movements being hard on the body. But I still hold the opinion that athletic movements make skiing easier on a net expenditure basis. We've seen some great clips in this thread including excellent demonstration of absorption skills. But many non-mogul skiers will look at these examples and conclude that these examples demonstrate "hard on the body". In the examples where you see bending forward at the waist after impact, I'd agree. But in many of the clips, the range of movement of the lower body makes it look "hard", but what you have to look at is the change in speed of the feet relative to the hips to accurately judge "hardness". Where you see little difference in speed, you'll find the skiers describing their run as (relatively) "effortless". So although I'm not fond of the given definition of dynamic, the question to Chuck "have you seen fast but easy on the body mogul skiing in these clips yet?" The really stupid question is "if one had a pair of skis long enough to span across the tops of the moguls and simply straight lined the run always being supported by the tops of the moguls, would that be dynamic mogul skiing?"

 

Although I'm sympathetic to the definition of using one's edges set against the path of travel to control speed as defensive and using edges to turn the skis to control speed as offensive (my interpretation of the debate), the general public would not view zipper line skiing at the speeds seen in this thread as defensive no matter what technique is being used. It really doesn't matter with respect to Chuck's question. I love to use edge sets to check speed in the bumps and I love to use edge engagement to turn the skis in the bumps. Either way can get you down the bumps. Either way can be easy or hard on the body depending on how you do it and how you define "hard" on the body. "Carving" through the bumps looks "easier", but is generally slower. "Bashing" through the bumps looks "harder", but is generally faster.

 

Earth to Chuck - you still out there?

 



Hi therusty, I'm still here pondering what is said and watching the videos posted here. A lot of good points (thought provoking to me) are said, and the skiing is absolutely impressive, dynamic (in the usual sense of the word) for sure. Regarding my peculiar definition (proposed to narrow the scope of discussion here, not meant to suggest it's a better def in any way) of dynamic being fast but easy on the body, I am thrilled to see many segments in these clips that meet that definition. Maybe you can tell me whether I am thinking straight or not. I can't ski moguls and therefore can only guess if what I see is hard on the body.

 

I think a run is more stressful if the upper body, or perhaps more accurately the COM, is frequently checked or going up and down or side to side rapidly. Such jerky motion of the COM inidcates there are strong short-duration forces or impacts on the body. So, if the legs and feet are moving rapidly relative to the hips, but the hips themselves move smoothly down the hill, I would guess the run is not punishing the skier. (I don't understand your statement highlighted above - in an extreme example, if I just lock myself into a body position and drop into a bump field, I am pretty sure I will crash and my body would cry uncle even though there is no difference in relative speed of feet and hips.)

 

Blake Saunders, Chuck Martin, Bush (in red jacket, appearing for a few seconds?) and Nail Bender all show they can ski fast but easy on the body in these clips? No?

 

Here is an "analysis" from someone who can't ski either way (yet). It looks like if you take the rounder line  as skied by Bush, for example, and tighten it more and more, the (competent) skier will have to turn faster and faster with more absorption/extension to stay "dynamic" and become more like Blake. I guess both styles require the same key technical elements, short turns and A/E, but with different emphasis. "Bashing" into the bumps with absorption is one end of this spectrum whereas carving through round, widely-spaced bumps is at the other. I am also baffled why Bush said Blake couldn't ski bumps like him. I feel they skied the way they did in these clips simply because they just happeedn to chose the line and therefore the style at the moment. I would think that these guys can ski either way. What say you, Bush, Blake and Nail?

 

It also seems to me that "carving" here is not the same thin lines on the snow carving. The feet are closer to the body. Are the ankles more relaxed?

 

post #40 of 98

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

The guys are ATTACKING that bump run in a way that few can match. In my neck of the woods that is OFFENSIVE skiing. 



this right here is one of the problems with the epicski instruction forums,  some anonymous no-name can come and try to discredit actual real working coaches, who do know much more than they do.

 

again attacking doesnt not mean offensive if your back and edge setting every turn...

post #41 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

this right here is one of the problems with the epicski instruction forums,  some anonymous no-name can come and try to discredit actual real working coaches, who do know much more than they do.

 

again attacking doesnt not mean offensive if your back and edge setting every turn...


 

IMO... the problem in this forum when describing various techniques as offensive and defensive is that it sets a very presumptuous and insular tone in the conversation. I have been "coached" by a former two time freestyle Olympian, he does not describe his tech as defensive. I have talked to others who have been coached in various moguls camp.... I willing to bet my ski boots (my most prized possession) that the coaches in those camps do not describe their techs as defensive.

post #42 of 98

How many readers see backseat defensive skiing in these --

 

 

post #43 of 98

Nice video that skiatansky posted, the "learn to ski bumps" one.  That skier that is at 50 seconds is awesome. 

 

Quote: From pud

I've tried to stay on the sidelines for several years now, but I must say the  Bushwacker has finally pushed me  over the cornice. For Bushwacker  to dismiss skier after skier ripping bump lines and then saying that they should ski more like he does is a joke. Bushwacker, you are not that good!!  You are delusionary in your perceived ability. The video you put up was a joke compared to the way Blake Saunders and most of the others skied. End of rant.

Thanks for the compliment.  I have to second all of this.  Especially the first sentence.  I have tried to ignore Bushwacker and to deal with him politely, but he does not make it easy so.....  Here is what I have to say:  Some skiers cannot accurately assess their own ability level, I have known skiers like that... other skiers lie and argue and try to convince people that they are great skiers when they are not.  Bushwacker is both of these types combined.  He won't listen to any arguments because he actually believes he's a great skier and he won't ever give up his arguments for fear that people will realize he's not that good (even though it's obvious to anyone who knows about skiing).   I have no doubt that my argument here will not have any affect on him and will only make this whole thread worse, so this is probably my last post on this thread... but I am tired of ignoring him... for now. 

 

Bushwacker, as mentioned is both delusional and incredibly conceited in his assessment of his own ability level.  Bushwacker skies at an average ability level no matter what he thinks or will tell other people.  He wants people to think he is awesome even though he is not so he tries to tell people that his way is the best. 

 

By the way bushwacker, in one of my attempts to deal with you politely I asked you to "set me straight" here:  http://www.epicski.com/t/104615/am-i-sitting-too-far-back-critisism-wanted-thank-you/30#post_1373325    I was being sarcastic.  I was surprised that you didn't realize this and then proceeded to give me advice on another thread here:  http://www.epicski.com/t/105964/what-the-hell-is-a-slarvy-turn    

 

On another note, I don't really care how each of us defines "defensive" or "offensive" but by my definition, I can't think of anything more "defensive" than going around moguls, avoiding them almost entirely. 

 

              Quote: From ChuckT

 I am also baffled why Bush said Blake couldn't ski bumps like him. I feel they skied the way they did in these clips simply because they just happeedn to chose the line and therefore the style at the moment. I would think that these guys can ski either way.

Thanks, and yes of course we can ski Bushwacker's way.  Most average PSIA instructors can too, only better than him. 

 

       Quote: From ChuckT

What say you, Bush, Blake and Nail?

Here is what I say.....

 

Quote: From Bushwacker

Blake Saunders could not ski bumps like me from what I have seen in his video. I would bet my entire life on it.

You want that to be true.  This is a favorite argument from SVMM guys and it's completely preposterous.  I found a youtube video where nailbender was saying this exact same thing about Chuck Martin, by the way.  I've skied with Chuck Martin, he's great and can ski with any style. 

 

So here is what I have to say....  Let's make a deal Bushwacker.  I see your shot at 42 seconds in your video from Stowe that you posted (the one called "epic spring conditions").  Leave that video up, I am willing to make a one shot video matching your style and ability on a similar run.  If what you say is true, I should completely fail to match your ability level in your style of skiing.  The poeple on this forum can be the judge of whether or not I successfully match it.  Give me time to make the video though the resort I'm at needs more snow.  I haven't dared to go in the moguls yet due to rocks.  I'm going to wait. 

 

But here's the deal, I am not going to do this unless you also agree to make a video matching my style and ability level in the moguls.  Since you're such a great skier, this shouldn't be any trouble for you at all... especially since your very style that you currently ski with dictates that you are a better skier than me... right?  I prefer it if you post first so that I don't end up posting one without a video response from you, I have already wasted too much time on this rediculous argument.  Here is a video with shots I'd like for you to match, do so and I will match your style and ability in it:  http://www.youtube.com/user/Blakera4848  There is a good shot for you to match at 2:50, 3:21, 4:46 you'll get the idea.  Make sure you video on similar terrain if you agree to this. 

 

The people on this forum can be the judge of who matches who's style and ability level in that style accurately.

 

Do we have a deal?

 

 

post #44 of 98

Or maybe istead of matching your style and ability myself, I'll have my 65 year old mother who has Rhumatoid Arthritis and a Kidney Transplant do it.  LOL

post #45 of 98

 

Whew, bumps are controversial!

 

Here are my meager $.02:

 

-I don't know why the two conflicting styles of bump skiing are seen to be contradictory. I do not claim to be an excellent bump skier, but I do know that when bumps are icy and ratty, my style tends toward the SVMM/technical side, with more swooping turns to smooth things out. When bumps are soft and nice, I take a more direct line with greater absorbtion like (but not as pretty as redface.gif) Blake. Both techniques and everything in between have their place, and both can be fun, depending on the conditions and goals of the skier.

 

-Blake's skiing is not defensive. He is not shoving his tails out to control speed, his skis are not leaving the snow, and he is not pounding the bumps sideways. He is taking a graceful but direct line, clearly leading with the tips. He has reached the limit of "slow line fast" technique. He is going very fast, but is technique displays the qualities of slow line skiing. 

 

-The skiers in that horrible 80s Killington video are leaving the snow, pounding bumps sideways, and leaving the snow - they are most certainly being defensive.

 

-I also like the SVMM videos here, but I do agree that it's harder to ski like Blake than to ski SVMM, which is why I only try to ski like that in nice soft bumps. 

 

Edited by LiveJazz - 12/27/11 at 3:21pm
post #46 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

How many readers see backseat defensive skiing in these --

 

 

 

 


 

I think you are the first one that put backseat and defensive together in this thread.

post #47 of 98


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post


 

I think you are the first one that put backseat and defensive together in this thread.


 

BW says the skiing in those videos is defensive in page 1 of the thread. In post 40 he expands on why it is defensive.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

 



this right here is one of the problems with the epicski instruction forums,  some anonymous no-name can come and try to discredit actual real working coaches, who do know much more than they do.

 

again attacking doesnt not mean offensive if your back and edge setting every turn...



 

post #48 of 98

Defensive skiing is such a subjective term.  At the "un" extreme, any effort to control speed or change direction to avoid disaster or even to just avoid going faster than a person would prefer can be labeled as defensive skiing (i.e. saving your ass).  I think most people would agree really labeling defensive skiing as being overly "timid" rather than pushing the envelope where possible.  Blocking with your poles and excess speed checks are typical tell tale signs of what most agree is defensive skiing.  But, a zealot could call any attempt to control speed and maintain control as "defensive".

post #49 of 98

 

Quote:

BlakeS wrote:

 

On another note, I don't really care how each of us defines "defensive" or "offensive" but by my definition, I can't think of anything more "defensive" than going around moguls, avoiding them almost entirely.

 

Gotta agree Blake and is one of the reasons why the most of the zipperline skiing in the videos posted is defensive IMO, including yours.

 

Everyone in these videos is skiing "around" the moguls and avoiding skiing "over" them entirely  They are all locked into skiing through the ruts or troughs that in reality define the bottom edges of the moguls which themselves are the the very large piles of snow that everyone is avoiding to ski over by banking off the bottom edges.

 

 

Quote:

BlakeS wrote:

 

You want that to be true.  This is a favorite argument from SVMM guys and it's completely preposterous.  I found a youtube video where nailbender was saying this exact same thing about Chuck Martin, by the way.  I've skied with Chuck Martin, he's great and can ski with any style.

 

Preposterous eh?

 

Why is it that I've NEVER seen Chuck Martin skiing consistently over the moguls, only avoiding them entirely by deflecting off of them while tracing the zipperline.  There are quite a few CM videos, if he can ski the technical line and carry speed, why NO video ANYWHERE of it?

 

I've watched all of your videos which have quite a bit of zipperline skiing , but NO "over the tops" mogul skiing.  It's all pure zipperline.  While very good, it's not technical line skiing and by your definition of defensive mogul skiing above, that's exactly what it is, defensive skiing.

 

We need snow badly here too, but by skiing over the moguls and not around them, I'm able to get down them without ticking the nasty's that are scraped up/exposed in the ruts.  You should give it a try.

 

Happy Holidays!

 

post #50 of 98

The definition of defensive and offensive in this context is rather clever.  Some comments made about one can also be made about the other. In my mind, the term “offensive” seems to imply superiority, and that is offensive to some.

post #51 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

Why is it that I've NEVER seen Chuck Martin skiing consistently over the moguls, only avoiding them entirely by deflecting off of them while tracing the zipperline.  There are quite a few CM videos, if he can ski the technical line and carry speed, why NO video ANYWHERE of it?



Maybe he likes how he skis bumps. Can you ski the zipper line? Why have we not seen video of it?

post #52 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post
Why is it that I've NEVER seen Chuck Martin skiing consistently over the moguls, only avoiding them entirely by deflecting off of them while tracing the zipperline. 

 



A skier cannot avoid a mogul by deflecting off of it -- to deflect off of an object you have to make contact. A skier that avoids moguls does not need the incredible absorption and extension ability a pro mogul skier like Chuck demonstrates in all of his mogul skiing. As a competition mogul coach Chuck teaches the line required to win mogul contests.

 

Your video shows more hits on the sides of the moguls -- like Chuck -- than over the top. Chuck does it faster and smoother. 

post #53 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Saunders View Post

Nice video that skiatansky posted, the "learn to ski bumps" one.  That skier that is at 50 seconds is awesome. 

 

Thanks for the compliment.  I have to second all of this.  Especially the first sentence.  I have tried to ignore Bushwacker and to deal with him politely, but he does not make it easy so.....  Here is what I have to say:  Some skiers cannot accurately assess their own ability level, I have known skiers like that... other skiers lie and argue and try to convince people that they are great skiers when they are not.  Bushwacker is both of these types combined.  He won't listen to any arguments because he actually believes he's a great skier and he won't ever give up his arguments for fear that people will realize he's not that good (even though it's obvious to anyone who knows about skiing).   I have no doubt that my argument here will not have any affect on him and will only make this whole thread worse, so this is probably my last post on this thread... but I am tired of ignoring him... for now. 

 

Bushwacker, as mentioned is both delusional and incredibly conceited in his assessment of his own ability level.  Bushwacker skies at an average ability level no matter what he thinks or will tell other people.  He wants people to think he is awesome even though he is not so he tries to tell people that his way is the best. 

 

By the way bushwacker, in one of my attempts to deal with you politely I asked you to "set me straight" here:  http://www.epicski.com/t/104615/am-i-sitting-too-far-back-critisism-wanted-thank-you/30#post_1373325    I was being sarcastic.  I was surprised that you didn't realize this and then proceeded to give me advice on another thread here:  http://www.epicski.com/t/105964/what-the-hell-is-a-slarvy-turn    

 

On another note, I don't really care how each of us defines "defensive" or "offensive" but by my definition, I can't think of anything more "defensive" than going around moguls, avoiding them almost entirely. 

 

              Quote: From ChuckT

Thanks, and yes of course we can ski Bushwacker's way.  Most average PSIA instructors can too, only better than him. 

 

       Quote: From ChuckT

Here is what I say.....

You want that to be true.  This is a favorite argument from SVMM guys and it's completely preposterous.  I found a youtube video where nailbender was saying this exact same thing about Chuck Martin, by the way.  I've skied with Chuck Martin, he's great and can ski with any style. 

 

So here is what I have to say....  Let's make a deal Bushwacker.  I see your shot at 42 seconds in your video from Stowe that you posted (the one called "epic spring conditions").  Leave that video up, I am willing to make a one shot video matching your style and ability on a similar run.  If what you say is true, I should completely fail to match your ability level in your style of skiing.  The poeple on this forum can be the judge of whether or not I successfully match it.  Give me time to make the video though the resort I'm at needs more snow.  I haven't dared to go in the moguls yet due to rocks.  I'm going to wait. 

 

But here's the deal, I am not going to do this unless you also agree to make a video matching my style and ability level in the moguls.  Since you're such a great skier, this shouldn't be any trouble for you at all... especially since your very style that you currently ski with dictates that you are a better skier than me... right?  I prefer it if you post first so that I don't end up posting one without a video response from you, I have already wasted too much time on this rediculous argument.  Here is a video with shots I'd like for you to match, do so and I will match your style and ability in it:  http://www.youtube.com/user/Blakera4848  There is a good shot for you to match at 2:50, 3:21, 4:46 you'll get the idea.  Make sure you video on similar terrain if you agree to this. 

 

 

The people on this forum can be the judge of who matches who's style and ability level in that style accurately.

 

Do we have a deal?

 

 




blake the thing is if i am average, nearly everyone I have met is below average. it really was not about me until someone who is anomymous started talking crap about me.

 

First average PSIA instructor. Newflashs I am Level 3, most 'average" instructors never can reach that level. I also run people into the ground everyday freeskiing I literaly go though multiple set of ski buddies each day because people start to get tired. I doubt I am just that more athletic some of it has to be efficiency. Good luck passing a Level 3 because again I go news for you. With your current applications of some damn good skills you have you would never pass the skiing part.

 

fsecond you are very good at which your doing and trust me I am not front flipping off any 25 foot cliffs anytime soon but you skiing was still defensive in fact most everything in your video was defensive. It may be aggressive and fast but you have no upper part to any of your turns.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Saunders View Post

 

I like a high energy, athletic, carved turn with minimal sliding.  I don't relate well to some style changes that have come about in recent years in the sport.  To me, a Scot Scmidt or Mike Hattrup turn is more impressive than a new school half-slid turn.  At the time when ski movies showed guys like Hattrup, or Rob Deslauriers, or Kirk Jensen.... there seemed to be a lot more interest in how a person's turn looked.  Nowadays in the movies, it's like if you don't fall between jumps in powder you're doing fine : ) 

 

 



your hop from edge set to edge set. Its very defensive and shows a unwillingness to change.

 

with that said once we get some snow I am going to copy you bump skiing. heck ill copy nails, ill even copy the air borne antics as well.

 

so when people stop telling me I am great in person, stop comments about how good I do things, can actually ski with me for a whole day, can beat me in a GS course(which alot of people can but I can beat alot more people...).

 

post #54 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
with that said once we get some snow I am going to copy you bump skiing. heck ill copy nails...

 



Copy this too --

 

post #55 of 98

 'Austrian Mogul Skiing' vid is really good.  That's going in the collection.  Eddie Ferguson's skiing in the video here still "epitomises the sport of freestyle" like few others can.

post #56 of 98

I just want to say, I really, really like the skiing of that first Austrian guy. I would say that that is "offensive" skiing per both BWPAs and skiatansky's criteria, but still probably not the easy on the body skiing that the OP wants to talk about. I'm not really sure how all of these high-speed low-drag bump-skiing videos help the OP with his question. It seems more like chest bumping at the house of primates.

post #57 of 98

Bush,

 

I've always really enjoyed your videos, especially because they showcase the unique expert terrain of Northern, VT and how to ski it really well.

 

But, Blake Saunder's 2010 Mogul and Freeskiing video is the most complete exhibition of expert free skiing skills ever posted on this website (especially by a non-professional skier).  There is just no legitimate knocking his smooth as silk zipper line bump skiing (on real big moguls that don't require the usual poster apology of 'these are way bigger, steeper than they look'...even on film these look like big moguls).  He samples some great cliff air lines and skis out of some tricky maneuvers. C'mon, man, he even sticks a 20ft front flip!   Add to that his pretty top notch carving sequences (mostly over fairly irregular terrain) and you have a 4 minute display of a very high-end and complete expert skier.

 

Now, none of that diminishes your skiing, Bush.  But, Blake is right to be chuffed by your dismissive and condescending attitude towards his skiing.  It's one thing to take a paternalistic pedagogical tone with intermediates who need some centering guidance, but skiers at Blake's level (which is as high, if not higher than anyone else who posts here except Dan Egan and Deslaurier) deserve a little more respect.  

 

And, Nail...you know, the SVMM stuff is great....but I've only seen CVJ ski it well.  You're a decent resort level skier, and could probably teach a fair number of folks on Epic a thing or two about bump skiing, but honestly, you're not qualified to criticize a single turn in a single video posted in this thread.  

post #58 of 98

With respect to the original question of dynamic bump skiing that's easy on the body, I think the skiing in Nailbender's clips most closely meets those criteria. Bushwacker's bump skiing also looks efficient, proficient, and easy on the body. It's pretty dynamic, and a lot of people would be happy to ski bumps that way. But it doesn't look like quite as much fun as skiing bumps Nailbender's way.

 

As an athletic feat, zipperlining steep bumps is quite impressive. I certainly can't do it. I don't think it's easy on the body though. Also, in my opinion, it's not all that aesthetically pleasing to watch. It looks very mechanical. Tiny poles flicking constantly, skis locked rigidly together, and knees working like a piston up and down. I don't see any grace, any nimbleness or playfulness.

 

I find the skiing in the Epic video to be the most fun to watch and to be the skiing that I'd most like to emulate. But I also like Nailbender's skiing a lot, because it looks easiest on the body in addition to being dynamic.

post #59 of 98

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

...... but still probably not the easy on the body skiing that the OP wants to talk about. I'm not really sure how all of these high-speed low-drag bump-skiing videos help the OP with his question.....
 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

 

I think a run is more stressful if the upper body, or perhaps more accurately the COM, is frequently checked or going up and down or side to side rapidly. Such jerky motion of the COM inidcates there are strong short-duration forces or impacts on the body. So, if the legs and feet are moving rapidly relative to the hips, but the hips themselves move smoothly down the hill, I would guess the run is not punishing the skier.

 

I agree with your statement that jerky motions impact the body.... thus smoothly moving the com as well as the hip as you move down the hill lessens the impact. IMO, if you want to ski a direct line down the bump field, this is achieve with good absorption and extension .

 

However, as with any techniques and skills development, it has to be ingrain into muscle memory before one can use it at faster speeds. Here's another vid, its a series of tips from Nelson Carmichael, the one below has a segment where he takes on some air to go down faster and then in the last segment, he had more snow contact to control his descend. The series has other vid/tip for you to ponder while this thread gets hijacked...

 


Edited by jack97 - 12/28/11 at 7:26am
post #60 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by powderjon View Post

 'Austrian Mogul Skiing' vid is really good.  That's going in the collection.  Eddie Ferguson's skiing in the video here still "epitomises the sport of freestyle" like few others can.

 

I now see that we are all way off track. Clearly we should be aspiring to the BOOHMM (Bat Out of Hell Mogul Madness) technique demonstrated from 1:05 to 2:20 of this video. 
 

 

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