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How to ski bumps dynamically  

post #1 of 98
Thread Starter 

Definition (for purpose of this thread): dynamic = fast but easy on the body

 

What do you focus on?

post #2 of 98

Keeping the tips engaged with the snow.

post #3 of 98

Hands, shoulders, knees, and shins forward.  Ski confident, own your line rather than allowing it to own you.

post #4 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoritz View Post

Keeping the tips engaged with the snow.



Do you press on the shins or pull the heels up to keep tips engaged? And always or only at certain location on a bump or phase of the turn?

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

own your line rather than allowing it to own you.


Please explain

 

post #5 of 98

cliff notes

 

hips square to the hill with no inclination , round turn shape, balance on the outside ski, skis turn on stable upper body and hips IE Femur in hip socket,retraction transition, learn to move from tip to tail and back to the tip.

 

and most importantly do not just ride the front of your boots,riding the fronts of the boots is a great way to pushed into the backseat.

 

 

post #6 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post



Do you press on the shins or pull the heels up to keep tips engaged? And always or only at certain location on a bump or phase of the turn?

 


Please explain

 


I flex at the ankles while pushing the knees forward.  That helps keep me out of the back seat and keeps my tips down.  More so when exiting a turn and transitioning to a new turn across the fall line.  Most of us end the turn with the skis a little out and down the pitch, the idea is to quickly get them back under you with hands out front, shoulders square across the fall line, and knees/shins pushing to keep the tips down and proper aggressive instead of defensive fore aft body position.  Many of the active instructors here have nifty illustrations of these concepts and can explain them better.  I'm just trying to explain how it works for me.

 

Hands forward, shoulders square across the fall line facing down the hill instead of across it, pushing forward aggressively to own the line rather than allowing the bumps to own you. 

 

post #7 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

Definition (for purpose of this thread): dynamic = fast but easy on the body

 

What do you focus on?



2-3 turns ahead of me

post #8 of 98

Absorb and extend. Full range of motion. 

post #9 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckT View Post

Definition (for purpose of this thread): dynamic = fast but easy on the body

 

What do you focus on?


What: Tips down but to the side. 

 

Why: Ski contact. To the side for a rounder turn. 

 

How: Heels to bum. (helps upper body move forward). Toes to side. 

 

When: Right after my most retracted position. 

 

Hope this makes sense.

post #10 of 98
Thread Starter 

good stuffs for me to try next time. Thanks

post #11 of 98

Tips down is especially relevant on the backside of the bump. You want a person that is below you on the hill to only be able to see a brief flash of your bases before he is seeing top sheet again. Think about what that means in terms of where your hips have to be.

post #12 of 98

And now for something completely different....

 

How: The faster the better and minimize the variation of the altitude of your skis from the snow surface.

Focus: Line

 

 

Fast and dynamic generally requires athletic movements. Are athletic movements easy on the body?

post #13 of 98

Slow to start.

Smooth round turns.

Plan your route.

Can you tell I am not a bump skier.

post #14 of 98

Turn...

 

 

ALOT!

post #15 of 98

 

 

 

I was going to post this gem in the dynamic skiing thread...but this is even more appropriate.  These guys are skiing real world, huge moguls at Killington with more energy and dynamic skiing that I've seen in any other video posted on Epic or elsewhere.  All the Brian Seasted (BeastEd) productions are great--I love shred like lettuce).  This one opens with the incomparable Nelson Carmichael in some local competition and then it's all Seasted and crew ripping up the real mogul terrain with flair and energy.  1991, anybody remember skiing like this??   How come nobody rips like this anymore?

 

How anybody can equate dynamic with glued to the snow is beyond me...especially in moguls.  Get your wings on boys!

post #16 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post

I was going to post this gem in the dynamic skiing thread...but this is even more appropriate.  These guys are skiing real world, huge moguls at Killington with more energy and dynamic skiing that I've seen in any other video posted on Epic or elsewhere.  All the Brian Seasted (BeastEd) productions are great--I love shred like lettuce).  This one opens with the incomparable Nelson Carmichael in some local competition and then it's all Seasted and crew ripping up the real mogul terrain with flair and energy.  1991, anybody remember skiing like this??   How come nobody rips like this anymore?

 

GREAT video!  People still rip like that; I think it's that nobody makes ski porn on bumps anymore, so unless you're in the right place at the right time, you're not going to see it.

 

Maybe head up to the nearest mountain that has an academy with a freestyle program?  Figure out where they're training for the day, and you'll see kids ripping zipperlines and throwing bigger tricks than you see in that clip.  I'm not sure you'll see them doing it on open trails in the same way, though.  You'll mostly see it in roped off training areas.  What you don't really see is the "devil-may-care" attitude that the clip suggests.  I don't know if the skiers at the time were really like that or if it's a creation of the movie, but the kids I've seen are scouting stuff, wearing helmets, etc.  I haven't seen any of them just open up on a random trail.

post #17 of 98

Listen to the coach around 3:15

 

 

 

post #18 of 98

 

Quote: From ChuckT
dynamic = fast but easy on the body

That is exactly what I go for in the moguls: "fast but easy on the body".  Being easy on the body means being smooth.  My thinking is that if you're faster but less smooth than someone else, then you're not necessarily a better skier... furthermore, if you're smoother but less fast than another skier, you are again not necessarily better than them... BUT, if you're faster AND smoother than other people, you ARE better than them for sure.  On a related note though, it is easier to go fast than to be smooth in the moguls, so if a skier is slightly smoother but slightly slower than another skier, the slower, smoother skier is probably better.  For example, I truly believe that Hannah Kearney and a few other female mogul skiers are better skiers than most, if not all of the world cup men.  Women like Hannah Kearney have styles that depend on great technique and the men typically have styles that involve more impact (worse obsorption) and an overemphasis on speed and power.  They have more brute force in their skiing and less technique in my opinion.  When you take into consideration the fact that the skiers I'm talking about are always on perfect machine-made moguls, it's more obvious that something is lacking in technique when they have trouble being smooth.  It's easier to be smooth in perfect moguls. 

 

In order to go fast you have to be absorbing well or else you'll end up launching up into the air off each bump, so speed and smoothness are related.  To go fast while being easy on the body, you need to absorb well.  That's the main thing.  Absorbing well means absobing as deep as the mogul is tall and as fast as your speed requires.  At high speeds it's more of a pulling up with your abs than a squating down with your legs.  Your butt ends up near your bindings on big moguls.  Timing is everything.  A late or slow absorption results in your skis coming off the ground. 

 

You can learn great mogul skiing in 4 steps.  Step 1 would be to be able to do short turns on the groomed, step 2 would be being able to do short turns while staying in a mogul line slowly without absorbing, step 3 would be to be able to do those short turns in a line while absorbing and step 4 would be doing the same while gradually increasing speed.  It's good to be pretty much centered.  In skiing being centered means having a body position that is perpendicular to the angle of the hill... but in moguls the angle of the hill changes with each bump and most of the actual skiing takes place on the part of the bump that can be flat or even uphill (the "uphill" side of the mogul), for this reason it is easy to be too far forward. 

 

If you go to 2:18 in this video, this is about the best I can do to illustrate the idea of "fast but easy on the body" or smooth absorption, the shot at 1:40 is another pretty good example.  I have some faster skiing in other videos, but I like my absorption a lot here.  These are huge, pointy, natural moguls:  http://www.youtube.com/user/Blakera4848#p/u/3/nA0ZC8ujZlk

 

post #19 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBoisvert View Post

 

GREAT video!  People still rip like that; I think it's that nobody makes ski porn on bumps anymore, so unless you're in the right place at the right time, you're not going to see it.

 

Maybe head up to the nearest mountain that has an academy with a freestyle program?  Figure out where they're training for the day, and you'll see kids ripping zipperlines and throwing bigger tricks than you see in that clip.  I'm not sure you'll see them doing it on open trails in the same way, though.  You'll mostly see it in roped off training areas.  What you don't really see is the "devil-may-care" attitude that the clip suggests.  I don't know if the skiers at the time were really like that or if it's a creation of the movie, but the kids I've seen are scouting stuff, wearing helmets, etc.  I haven't seen any of them just open up on a random trail.



I've seen the freestyle teams...but I've never seen them open it up on non-seeded moguls, and never airing it out like these guys...except on man made kickers with landing zones.  The guys in this video are flying through big, natural, unpredictable moguls landing and launching off bumps that are pretty chaotic.  I don't see any freestyle team working on those skills.  I think these sort of skiers are park rats now  (and I don't knock the park rats, what they can do is impressive and talented).  

 

At my local bump there is a Late 20 something age group crew who will tear up the lift line ad nauseum (and air it out fairly impressively) on big twin tips when the coverage is good.  They're similar to what is going on in this video.  But the Seasted crew is much better.

 

Oh, judging by that OTHER video, I have to say that the Brothers Saunders are ripping skiers!

post #20 of 98


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanBoisvert View Post

 

GREAT video!  People still rip like that; I think it's that nobody makes ski porn on bumps anymore, so unless you're in the right place at the right time, you're not going to see it.

 

Maybe head up to the nearest mountain that has an academy with a freestyle program?  Figure out where they're training for the day, and you'll see kids ripping zipperlines and throwing bigger tricks than you see in that clip.  I'm not sure you'll see them doing it on open trails in the same way, though.  You'll mostly see it in roped off training areas.  What you don't really see is the "devil-may-care" attitude that the clip suggests.  I don't know if the skiers at the time were really like that or if it's a creation of the movie, but the kids I've seen are scouting stuff, wearing helmets, etc.  I haven't seen any of them just open up on a random trail.

 

Back in those days I was sharing Devils Fiddle with a small group of guys like that.  One of them flew by me, way too close, with his skis about level with my head.eek.gif  He apologized and said it wasn't intentional.  I'm not sure if the fact that it was unintentional should make me feel better or worse! eek.gifeek.gif

post #21 of 98

although I like the skiing in both videos posted the first one with Judas Priest is REALLY high impact and both fall into the pivot slam catergory  IMO. Both are actually defensive skiing, and showing the fast line being done being fast but with defensive movements.

 

When I think about dynamic mogul skiing I think about short radius Slow line fast skiing.

 

some of the slower speed stuff in this video is pretty low impact. all of it is more offensive than anything shown thus far in this thread.

 

 

there is good clip of me skiing bumps here on upper starr(37 degree pitch) IMO slamming the bumps like every video shown on here is a great way to become tired really quickly and is extremely tough to do on steep bump runs. skiing a slow line fast or realistly in this case since this video was taken while demoing for the Stowe Buster's team 7-8 on scale of 10. Is the best way to go though with the bumps smoothly with out much impact. Being super strong and flexible and strong at the end of you range of motion helps as well. I would say I taking less impact than any of the video shown including the technical one with Richie berger. at :41 seconds. It again is more 'offensive" than the videos posted prior to my post.

 

 

therusty I do not think being athletic is hard on the body. I actually think that my athleticism lets me ski with a much softer touch than someone with out it. with that said I think ANYONE can learn to be athletic and work and train towards that goal.

 

Skip to 15:00 minute in this video.

 

 

although there is some GREAT bump skiing in the video, mostly done by Bob(oragne jacket), Weems(green jacket) , the girl in red pants with the crazy jacket(although she is a little pivoty on top the turn) . even the comp bump guys are skiing a much more round much more offensive line than the other 'comp" bump skiing shown. there is some only mearly good skiing. The entire group could benefit from kryptons it would give them the 'soft touch" I think I have and I think most in this group are missing. cool.gif

 

 

 

 

before I get crap for talking crap about everyone elses example. first ask yourself what is a offensive skiing? what is defensive skiing? going fast doesnt make you an offensive skier its an tactical attitude towards the mountain and giving it to mountain instead of letting it give it back to you. With that said you still need to know defensive movements just do not make them a habit.

 

 

 

 


Edited by BushwackerinPA - 12/24/11 at 7:10pm
post #22 of 98

Quote:

Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

...Femur in hip socket...


I'm thinking that if my femur wasn't in its hip socket I wouldn't be trying to ski down a bump run. smile.gif

post #23 of 98

This is dynamic

 

post #24 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

This is dynamic

 


 

it is but it is fast line fast skiing with defensive movements.

 

 

 

post #25 of 98

Are you saying that the bumpers in that video are not skiing offensively?

post #26 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

Are you saying that the bumpers in that video are not skiing offensively?



yes I am saying that. they are skiing aggresively and are damn good at their way of doing it it but its is not offensive. Its reactive and defensive.

 

but as I am trying to say its you can ski a slow line fast and be alot less impact than every video shown besides the one I showed.

post #27 of 98

The guys are ATTACKING that bump run in a way that few can match. In my neck of the woods that is OFFENSIVE skiing. 

post #28 of 98

BushWacker...agree, definitely defensive skiing in those videos.  The terrain determines where the impacts for speed control happen, not the skiers.

 

My suggestion to dynamically ski moguls with the least amount of impact/abuse is to start skiing over the moguls instead of around them like the skiers in the videos above do exclusively.

 

The last part of this video shows this clearly, in reverse slow motion even.

 

 

This is another with a lot of "over the top" mogul skiing, not focusing pounding the zipperline and allowing it to dictate.  Dynamic, smooth skiing.

 

post #29 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

This is another with a lot of "over the top" mogul skiing, not focusing pounding the zipperline and allowing it to dictate.  Dynamic, smooth skiing.


NB, what defines smooth in the video of your skiing?

post #30 of 98

I think the debate that is occurring is more the difference in the definition of the terms. 

 

Offensive skiing versus defensive skiing. It is not describing a mental attitude. It is the description of tactical and technical difference that is very obvious even during the Olympics. 2 differing styles. Someone should probably give them new and unique names.

 

Offensive - Skiing the slow line fast. Rounder turn shape emphasised so that ski contact is maintained. (Ski contact would probably be the definition of smooth for the purpose of this discussion).

 

Defensive - Straighter line. Skis are pivoted quickly (sometimes mid air) and absorption is emphasised over ski contact. 

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