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Minimum Age for Riding the Lift Unsupervised? - Page 2

post #31 of 50
Quote:

Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 

I do not like taking responsibility for someone's 5 year old on the lift, however.

 

 



I have no problem with that.  If there's a little kid riding up with me sans parent I act as if he or she is my own kid, because he or she is just a little kid.  

post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post



I have no problem with that.  If there's a little kid riding up with me sans parent I act as if he or she is my own kid, because he or she is just a little kid.  


I do the same. I've never left my own child to the care of an adult on the lift, but I understand how/why it happens. I've been asked a couple times if a kid could ride up with me at my little home hill.  I'd also be happy to accompany an 22 year old girl up if she needed assistance, especially on bikini day.  I'm not sure my wife would approve.

 

 

 

post #33 of 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post

I have no problem with that.  If there's a little kid riding up with me sans parent I act as if he or she is my own kid, because he or she is just a little kid.  


I agree.  On more than one occasion, ski school has had an odd number of kids and the teacher has asked if I'd ride up with the extra kid.  I'm happy to and treat them as if they were my own...b/c why wouldn't I...or anyone?
 

 

post #34 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

This is why.  Plain and simple.  Regardless of the odds, knowledge of monsters among us existing is why..
 

1203-jerry-sandusky-tmz2-bn.jpg


Eh, I must disagree. Not that he isn't scary, but he isn't stranger danger. That's part of what makes it so horrific ... the kids were supervised. 

 

Has anyone ever heard of a kid being molested at a ski area? (Honest question) I know that resorts do a good job of sweeping things under the table (people falling off lifts, etc) when they can, but I seriously have never heard of a kid being kidnapped or whatever at a ski place. I mean, it's not exactly easy pickings. Lots of layers, too. 

 

post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post



I have no problem with that.  If there's a little kid riding up with me sans parent I act as if he or she is my own kid, because he or she is just a little kid.  



Yeah, I don't have an issue with that; I'm glad to help out when I can. You can have some great conversations, too -- and then there are the ones who treat you like YOU are the stranger danger! roflmao.gif

post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by iWill View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by noncrazycanuck View Post

just read above no daughter did not move out to load position that particular day. This was Baker early season mid week usually there are no lines and at that time the base did not even have other skiers in the area. She skied down adjacent the lift where the three of us would wait for to join another skier for one to ride with (double chair) as we had been doing all day. This time the liftee just picked her up and put her on a chair. Much to her surprise. My daughters started skiing at age three so from an ability point of view she likely appeared competent. But from a physical point of view when her skis remained at 90 degrees from the hill because the legs weren't long enough for the knees to bend off the end of the chair I think it should have been pretty clear she was pretty young and needed supervision.     



In the old days the Baker liftees had a reputation for being slackers, but I've certainly never seen or heard of any liftee doing anything remotely like that. I have seen them call for a snowmobile to take a single 6 year old back to the lodge when he tried to load by himself and couldn't say where his parents where. The rule at Baker is 7 years old to ride any chair unaccompanied. That's one of the reasons Baker will not offer group lessons for children under 7.

 

 


New to the party, but I have to put in my thoughts.  Baker liftys have had a long reputation for being way off-task.  I've smelled the reefer more than once on them.  It's disconcerting to arrive at the top of a lift to find that there is nobody visible, or more often, the lift "operator" is so far from the controls that they would be unable to stop the lift in case of emergency (this is very common).  Another common sight is the top operator doing something unrelated to work.  I've seen them reading, playing guitar, talking on the phone, texting, etc.  At Stevens Pass I was told by the Patrol Director (my brother) that if a lift operator was caught not watching each and every skier get off of the chair they would be fired then and there.  No such concern for employees at Baker.  No place in my experience is as loose.  If it's not as bad as it used to be, it still has a long way to go.

 

As a Baker local, I really enjoy skiing there and don't care too much about whether or not these guys and gals are doing their job.  I just take it for granted that they aren't and watch out for myself.  When I had little kids they didn't ride without me at Baker, but we mostly went to Stevens for their safety and where they could ride alone from time to time.

 

post #37 of 50
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post


Eh, I must disagree. Not that he isn't scary, but he isn't stranger danger. That's part of what makes it so horrific ... the kids were supervised. 

 

Has anyone ever heard of a kid being molested at a ski area? (Honest question) I know that resorts do a good job of sweeping things under the table (people falling off lifts, etc) when they can, but I seriously have never heard of a kid being kidnapped or whatever at a ski place. I mean, it's not exactly easy pickings. Lots of layers, too. 

 



Churches aren't safe because of clergy, bus drivers, and other staffers.  Schools aren't safe because of teachers, janitors and other staff.  Why wouldn't one also assume there are ski instructors and other ski resort staff (and especially) in addition to strangers that are predators as well?

post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


 



Churches aren't safe because of clergy, bus drivers, and other staffers.  Schools aren't safe because of teachers, janitors and other staff.  Why wouldn't one also assume there are ski instructors and other ski resort staff (and especially) in addition to strangers that are predators as well?



I was replying in the context of what you said here:  "Still, knowing what we know about people that wasn't common knowledge back in the 70s, I don't let my kids (oldest is 9) go more than a half block away from the front door without a trusted teenager or adult with them. "  It's different things, a coaching or teaching relationship vs letting your kid ride up a lift with some dude or ski alone or walk a half block alone. Or maybe I've read this thread wrong... 

post #39 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post



I was replying in the context of what you said here:  "Still, knowing what we know about people that wasn't common knowledge back in the 70s, I don't let my kids (oldest is 9) go more than a half block away from the front door without a trusted teenager or adult with them. "  It's different things, a coaching or teaching relationship vs letting your kid ride up a lift with some dude or ski alone or walk a half block alone. Or maybe I've read this thread wrong... 


If they'll pull this shit with kids of families they know well, imagine what happens when they encounter kids that are complete strangerseek.gif

 

post #40 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


If they'll pull this shit with kids of families they know well, imagine what happens when they encounter kids that are complete strangerseek.gif

 



The point is that something like 80% of molestation crimes happen between people who already know each other. I'm not saying not to be aware of strangers, but it's much more likely that the bad guy isn't a stranger. 

 

ANYway, I still want to know about such crime statistics on ski mountains ... I'll go google ...

post #41 of 50
Thread Starter 

I get that the hometown hill might not be any more sketchy than the movie theaters or mall (where I also wouldn't leave a 7 year old to roam alone or with other youngsters).  But, how about a ski area that isn't your home hill?  How about Disney World?  There are also several layers there, actually several more.  My kids could actually read the Magic Kingdom map and find their way around the park just fine at 7 and 8.  But, I still wouldn't let them wander anywhere in there out if sight.  However, we did put them on some rides soloirony.gif while watching and waiting for them at the exit.  Nothing as dangerous as a ski lift though. 

post #42 of 50

Has anyone ever heard of a paedophile, priest or zombie dragging a kid from the chair?

 

I'm more concerned with the safety bar on a quad or 6 pak being up when

 

- gaper adults are too busy watching the scenery as the kids horeseplay;

- the adult seated on the far left grabs a toppling hefty kid on the far right. Then the adult starts to topple and he grabs whoever he can to save himself. Soon enough, they're all hauling each other off the chair.

 

If I go up with kids (or adults), the bar goes down. If anyone objects, I tell them I suffer vertigo and I'd hate to take someone with me. Works everytimebiggrin.gif

post #43 of 50

Children on lifts alone while in ski lessons has been a peeve of mine since I started teaching in the 80's but it is the standard at many resorts.  Group lessons are up to 10 children in a group.. I have taken as many as 10, 3 years old in a group ski lesson, though that resort supplied me two teen assistants to help transport them around the ski resort.  I have been at resorts where these is just no line ups to even ask for assistance with 5 year olds to get on the chair and the 5 and 6 year old children are paired up and ride up small double chairlifts (low so they can fit) as soon as they are comfortable and willing on the beginner hill.  I hate it, I want an adult on any non surface lift with children and an adult with any children under 6 on a surface lift.  The first people to teach my child how to get on a chair lift was a group lesson (I was an instructor then) at a resort we were vacationing at and I felt I never had control of him after that.  He just took off ahead of us last minute, down the hill and jumped on the lift before we could quite catch up when ever he thought he could get away with it, I think he was 7. 

 

I would love to see a standard that did  not let children on chair lifts unaccompanied, until at least 8 and if parent wants to save the cost of a private or semi private lesson for a group lesson then I would like to see them along to assist their children up the chair lifts until they are the higher age, or at least skiing the same run so they are available for uploads.  I have taught at resorts that did no group lessons for children under 7 and this was the reason, but at 7 they would be taken and taught to use a chairlift and ride up with other skiers in their group, which would probably be 7 to 10 years old.

 

I would love to see a standard or legislation on this myself, as any time I teach young children and the standard is to let them go up the lift together, I worry that one day I will have to face the horror of a child falling out.  On the other hand, I have skied regularily since getting my instructors in 1987 and have never seen an incident or heard of one at a resort I was at, so they are very likely rare.  I just feel it's a risk that maybe shouldn't be taken and one I wish I didn't have to take.

post #44 of 50

To prevent irrational fear about chair lifts: It was not (likely) a freak accident. There (may) have been safety behavior rules broken. 

 

It does not mean that your child could be swept away by some unknown cause on a chair lift.   It is a statistical possibility, but this accident does not mean that the likelihood  is any greater, IMO.

 

standard protocol is for the instructor to sit in the last chair so she can keep an eye on the children's behavior.

 

(I'm not an official source)

post #45 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


 



Churches aren't safe because of clergy, bus drivers, and other staffers.  Schools aren't safe because of teachers, janitors and other staff.  Why wouldn't one also assume there are ski instructors and other ski resort staff (and especially) in addition to strangers that are predators as well?


Certainly, if you operate under the assumption that there is a significant risk that your child will be molested any time you let them out of your sight, then maybe there's no reason to suspend that assumption while skiing.  However, not everyone thinks that's a sensible assumption.

post #46 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

To prevent irrational fear about chair lifts: It was not (likely) a freak accident. There (may) have been safety behavior rules broken. 

 

It does not mean that your child could be swept away by some unknown cause on a chair lift.   It is a statistical possibility, but this accident does not mean that the likelihood  is any greater, IMO.

 

standard protocol is for the instructor to sit in the last chair so she can keep an eye on the children's behavior.

 

(I'm not an official source)


At WP kids instructors go first or the kids will wander off at the top.  You can give them coaching getting off the lift or help pick up the bodies which helps keep the lift going.

 

'Safety bar' is a misnomer.  Most just call it 'the bar' these days.  It doesn't prevent kids or adults from falling out of the chair.   Squirming children + slick ski clothing can equal kid easily slipping under the bar.  Had a friend have that happen in a class about 7 years ago.  Kid turned around in the chair to yell at his friend behind him.  Kid fell 20 feet, bounced, and got a bloody nose.   Adults don't bounce too well.

 

At WP, kids under a certain age are hauled up the hill via snowmobile sled.

 

If a staff member at a resort has an issue - that information usually works its way around to surrounding resorts.  They generally do not do paid background checks on staff as that costs money.  The bad apples generally get screened out pretty quickly. 

post #47 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Posaune View Post


If it's not as bad as it used to be, it still has a long way to go.

 

 

They have definitely cleaned up their act.

post #48 of 50

I did not make my original post in order to point fingers at any particular resort. It was just my story of how easily what should be a simple run can go sideways. Watching my 5 year old daughter hanging on to that chair is still with out doubt the scariest moment I have ever had while skiing. Serious injuries and even the death of ski buddies I have accepted as part of a sport I love. I could not have have accepted it if my daughter had fallen because I was not close enough to stop her being put on the lift. As a parent I should have been.

 

Baker is a fun hill, good snow cover, low crowds and enough steep terrain to make it enjoyable. I recommend it for anyone while in the area. But even last year while they may have cleaned up their act, my ski buddies were still commenting on how slack they were. I always thought they were volunteers.    

post #49 of 50

brittany coxThis munchkin was in the 2010 Winter Olympics' womwns moguls an rides with the bar down. Why take chances wih the "bar up"? Sure its not as safe as seatbelts but, imo, a bar is better than nothing.

post #50 of 50

truly ironic thing is that this accident may have occurred BECAUSE the bar was down, (footrest type bar). now I wouldn't have ever seen THAT coming.

 

I'm really uncomfortable with the connection of this thread to the family's loss. are we doing this discussion with sensitivity? I'm going with prevention in the future as the only reason to re-hash tragedy.

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