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Flat tail powder ski recommendation?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

I'm looking for a one ski quiver for inbounds skiing at Alta/Snowbird/Grand Targhee.  I want something that would be good in powder/trees, and tolerable on groomers moguls.  I may occasionally use it in Vermont.  After my demoing experience, I think I've decided that I prefer the traditional feel of a normally cambered ski with tip rocker and a flat tail, with an underfoot width around 105-110ish.

I have demoed the Bonafide 180 (too skinny, and don't like the tail rocker), the 2010 K2 Hardside 182 (liked it, but would like something wider), the 2010 Gotama 180 (liked it, but prefer the traditional feel of a cambered ski with a flat tail), and the 2011 G3 Manhattan 180 (close to what I'm looking for).

I am an advanced skier, 5'11", 165#.  

 

My gut is telling me that the K2 Sidestash 181 is what I'm looking for (the description seems identical to the G3 Manhattan).  I unfortunately have not yet been able to demo it, and the G3 Manhattan makes me slightly nervous as it seems more geared to backcountry skiing (made by a backcountry equip company, after all). 

 

Would it be stupid of me to buy the K2 Sidestash without having demoed it, or should I just go with the G3, since I demoed it and liked it well enough, even though it is made by a "backcountry skiing" company and I plan on only doing inbounds skiing?

 

Thanks.

 

Peter

post #2 of 26
How about the Fischer Watea 101.
post #3 of 26

backcountry, vs on hill is just marketing.   dont worry about that...

 

also faction alius is 102mm

 

4frnt EHP

 

dynastar 105 or 115 legend.

 

 

post #4 of 26

Flat tail "powder" skis would include.................

 

Sidestash as you've mentioned.

Dynastar Legend 105

Atomic Coax

Kastle BMX 108

Line Influence 105

 

The Sidestash has far more tip rise than the rest. All of these are really just oversized "all mountain skis" Each is different, all are good.

 

SJ

 

post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thanks. A few things:

Do you guys know if K2 is now measuring their skis at actual length (e.g. is the 181 sidestash actually 181cm or is it longer?)

Anyone with experience with G3 skis?  The only reason I demoed the G3 Manhattan was it had very similar specs to the sidestash and it was all they had to demo at Wolf Creek last week...

 

 

post #6 of 26
Ski length is the actual length of the ski tip to tail.
post #7 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by petey View Post

I'm looking for a one ski quiver for inbounds skiing at Alta/Snowbird/Grand Targhee.  I want something that would be good in powder/trees, and tolerable on groomers moguls.  I may occasionally use it in Vermont.  After my demoing experience, I think I've decided that I prefer the traditional feel of a normally cambered ski with tip rocker and a flat tail...

Thanks.

 

Peter



flat tail

being a bit of a retro grouch myself - it took some thought to go with a pr of skis with a Twin tip, primarily for POW

one nice surprise

 

I tend to find myself in tight, steep, no exit places in trees and chutes...

one major benefit of my new TTs was the ability to back out of those places easily - especially in tight trees where you find yourself with no virtual exit... or I'll end up on a ledge where the landing is just not makeable... backin out is sometimes the smart move -  TT - icon14.gif

post #8 of 26

My gut is telling me to recommend to you a pair of Dynastar XXL 187's. I see them on ebay all the time for under $500. I am similar dims and skier style as you describe, and the XXL 187 is a great, albeit some what old school style all mtn powder charging, side country crushing ski.

post #9 of 26

Three good resort pow skis from indies with mild front rocker that claim tail rocker but in reality have pretty traditional rears are the Prior Overlord and the PM Gear Lhasa pow or 183 Fat. There have been reviews of all three here, and a bunch at TGR. The Lhasa will be the friendliest in tight spaces, the 183 fat will carve the best, the Overlord will crush crud and chop the best. I've owned both the Overlord and the Lhasa, FWIW. Have also heard a lot of good things about the ON3P Billy Goat for resort trees. It has a touch more tail rocker but reportedly handles groomers just fine. Some of the other skis mentioned here - all fine BTW - may be a lot for eastern trees IMO. 

post #10 of 26

I have to admit I'm not really clear on exactly what you are looking for, but I think you ought to take a look at the Kastle FX104. Flat tail. No rocker, but man does it ski well. It reminds me of the original Gotama, but with an even better feel. It was the first non-rockered bigger ski I've been on in a few years, and I can't say I missed the rocker. If are set on the tip-rocker though, the BMX 108 has that too.

 

The first ski that came to mind for me is the Cochise, but if you don't like the Bonafide's tail rocker I guess you won't like the Cochise either.

 

Take a look at the Volkl Katana too. Very, very mild reverse camber, but feels very "normal".

post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by petey View Post

I'm looking for a one ski quiver for inbounds skiing at Alta/Snowbird/Grand Targhee.  I want something that would be good in powder/trees, and tolerable on groomers moguls.  I may occasionally use it in Vermont.  After my demoing experience, I think I've decided that I prefer the traditional feel of a normally cambered ski with tip rocker and a flat tail, with an underfoot width around 105-110ish.

 

I have demoed the Bonafide 180 (too skinny, and don't like the tail rocker), the 2010 K2 Hardside 182 (liked it, but would like something wider), the 2010 Gotama 180 (liked it, but prefer the traditional feel of a cambered ski with a flat tail), and the 2011 G3 Manhattan 180 (close to what I'm looking for).

I am an advanced skier, 5'11", 165#.  

 

My gut is telling me that the K2 Sidestash 181 is what I'm looking for (the description seems identical to the G3 Manhattan).  I unfortunately have not yet been able to demo it, and the G3 Manhattan makes me slightly nervous as it seems more geared to backcountry skiing (made by a backcountry equip company, after all). 

 

Would it be stupid of me to buy the K2 Sidestash without having demoed it, or should I just go with the G3, since I demoed it and liked it well enough, even though it is made by a "backcountry skiing" company and I plan on only doing inbounds skiing?

 

Thanks.

 

Peter


If you think the Bone is too skinny, then what makes you think that 105-110mm is "the answer"? I mean 5-10% wider is really not going to be that much more in terms of float... I ski 98 under foot skis all the time and the difference between them and something 105-110 under foot, well Its noticeable, rarely, but I don't think its a huge difference most of the time. Just my $.02.  

 

For a 105-110 that is significantly better in pow and trees than a 98 under foot ski... I would look at something very much on the softer side of things which will get you alot more float, manoeuvrability,  and feel in pow and in smaller lines in trees, chutes, etc...

 

 

 

post #12 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post

Ski length is the actual length of the ski tip to tail.


Right. Now put a K2 against a Kastle of the "same" length and say that again.

post #13 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofun3 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post

Ski length is the actual length of the ski tip to tail.


Right. Now put a K2 against a Kastle of the "same" length and say that again.


You need to follow the length if the ski obviously.
post #14 of 26

To the OP: I have a pair of first gen "181" Sidestashes and they measure 184cm. When I glanced at the current ski it *seemed* as though it was still under measured. Also, the front half of the current Sidestash is going to feel different than the 2010 Hardside you skied. The current Sidestash has more than double the length of rocker than the first two model years. I think you'd be happy with a previous year Sidestash if you can find one. For all intensive purposes it's just a wider, cambered all mountain ski that has a very slightly disconnected feeling tip.

post #15 of 26

This is the ski you're looking for:

 

186-Vicik11-850x77.jpg

 

104 under foot

Cambered

Early rise

Flat semi-twin tail

 

Versatile enough to be pull every day.

post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

Flat tail "powder" skis would include.................

Line Influence 105

 

SJ

 



but isnt there a bit of a rise at the tail with these, or is this more just it being rounded off. At any rate with the 115s because they are not squared off it feels like the tails come around easier in powder

post #17 of 26

^^^^^^^^^ Correct, none of these skis except the Kastle have a real flat tail. Most have a slightly rounded or kicktail. However, the term is used to differentiate from a full twin or true tail rise (rocker)

 

SJ

post #18 of 26

Look at the Movement Trust as it has a true flat tail http://www.backcountry.com/movement-skis-trust-ski and is a great do everything ski.

post #19 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

This is the ski you're looking for:

 

186-Vicik11-850x77.jpg

 

104 under foot

Cambered

Early rise

Flat semi-twin tail

 

Versatile enough to be pull every day.



One of the best out there for sure. Bambo and carbon fiber hand made by skiers,what else could ya want.

 

post #20 of 26

Peter,

 

Definitely take a look at the Cochise.  It seems like you are looking for the same thing as I was and I have used them over the last few weeks on hard pack on the east coast, powder/trees at Whistler and powder/trees at Snowbird (what there was of it) and although there are definitely better specific skis for each, it's the best one ski I've ever had.

 


Chris

post #21 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

This is the ski you're looking for:

 

186-Vicik11-850x77.jpg

 

104 under foot

Cambered

Early rise

Flat semi-twin tail

 

Versatile enough to be pull every day.

+1 to this. Exactly what I was going to recomend when I read the OP post. If you want something slightly wider in the waist, you could also look at the Wrenegades, which are 113mm in the waist I think. But the Vicik sounds perfect for what you're describing.

 

 

post #22 of 26

Katana, the rocker in the tail is so minimal I wouldn't even considered it rockered.

post #23 of 26

Petey if you haven't already pulled the trigger I would add the Elan Olympus to your list and at your size the 183. It's a flat tail, tip rise with a medium flex and excellent pow, crud and groomer performance for it's size. Better in tree's and tight spaces than most skis mentioned here and for how much stability it offers at speed. The BMX108 is another one I love that might fit your bill. Check out Dawgcatching reviews on these two skis. 

post #24 of 26

Nordica Enforcer.  Just a bit of tip rocker.  Fun all places, all day long.

post #25 of 26

Atomic Atlas, adding to the list of good ideas

post #26 of 26

I'll second the love for the Enforcer. Flat tail, tip rocker so slight that you can't see it, but you can feel it. No silly tip flopp. I weigh 180 lbs and bought the Enforcer in a 178 to be a compliment to my Elan 1010. What I wanted was a quicker, less burly, easier to toss around, do everything resort ski. Compared to the Bonafide it carves much better, you can push it way out to the side, find the edge before the fall line and hold on as it rips back around. The Bonafide has a stiff mid section that grips well, but it doesn't carve with power or excitement. The Enforcer tip tracks much better than the Bonafide as well. The Bonafide gets knocked around by heavy mashed potatoe crud. The Enforcer less so.

 

On the negative side for the Enforcer, the 178 is too short for my often non-centered stance in crud. Compared to the Elan it is too quick and too easy to overturn in our typical heavy crud. I should have bought the 185. It would track more smoothly in the crud I think, without giving up much quickness. 

 

The Elan 1010 has been like a religious experience for me. In 6-18" of PNW heavy crud the ski is rock solid. It'll carve (smarve?) smoothly and solidly or pivot instantly. Never dives or sinks and totally blasts through any piles or snowboard troughs. It has made skiing crud and heavy snow a complete blast and often has me leading a pack of talented skiers 10-15 years younger.(Yeah, I'm almost 60) No slouch on hardpack either, but not in the same class as the Enforcer or my old Nordica Jet Fuels.

 

So why did i pick up a pair of Enforcers if my 1010s are so bomber? I'm starting to wonder.  

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