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Inbounds Powder Ski?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

I just relocated to ski country where my number of ski days per year will jump from 16-17 to 60-70!

I have 2 frontside skis, but I would like a mellow, easy-skiing powder-oriented ski that can still handle the groomers on the way back to the lift without scaring me.....something in the 98-105 range underfoot.

 

At some point, I would really like to give short sidecountry day-long AT skiing a try with them, but for the time being they will be used for powder days in trees and bumps inbounds.  I'm 5'10, 165 lbs, mid-40's, and a very solid Level 6 skier, level 7 on my more cocky or good days.

 

My demo opportunities are limited primarily to Rossi and Volkl.  I'm not crazy about  Volkl skis, and while I usually like Rossi, my demo of the S3 last year left my unimpressed.  Not interested in a twin-tip.  The new Coomback seems right in dimensions, and I've heard tell it's fairly forgiving, which is nice for a sometimes admittedly lazy skier such as myself.  I was thinking that ski in 174 with a Marker Tour or Diamir binding, but that's not set in stone...hence my search for other opinions.

 

Anyone have any words of wisdom advise-wise....either regarding my stated leanings or even another more appropriate suggestion entirely???

Thanks for any input.

post #2 of 23

If you were unimpressed with the Rossi S3 it may be the combination of its rocker along with most demo bindings are over ramped between the heel and toe heights. That being said that would indicate that a more traditional camber may be what you are looking for like the Rossi Experience 98. You did mention that you are a level 6-7 skier so getting too beefy of a ski along with your stature may not be what you need. The Experience while being a slolid ski should be forgiving enough for you to do the things you want to do. By skiing 60 times this year I would fully expect that you will be a solid level 8 skier by the end of the season.

post #3 of 23

There are a ton of skis that will do what you want, Skierish. I'd look at the Line Profit 98 or Influence 105, the Blizzard Cochise, Head Inferno, Nordica, and the like. The E98, while a very nice ski,  is more piste oriented and it seems you have that end well covered.

post #4 of 23

^icon14.gif

Would also throw the Icelantic Nomad Soft into that mix.  A nice traditional camber ski, easy turning, soft snow friendly, all mountain ski.   It likes pack snow too but not an ice skate.

post #5 of 23

Go wider.  Armada JJ is what you are looking for.

post #6 of 23

Welcome to North Idaho (and EpicSki)! Hope to see you at Schweitzer or Silver sometime.

post #7 of 23
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the replies:

Skixtremedude, to be fair to the S3, the conditions kind of stunk...breakable crust...and the only one they had may have been a tad long for me.  Since Rossi demos are easy to do here, I think I'll give it another try on a powder day.  

I thought about the E98, but Rossi's own site suggests it's a bit burly and aimed at Expert skiers...but there's certainly no harm in giving it a demo also!

 

Markojp, I've seen the Lines in a nearby shop and wondered about the Influence 105, but figured it would be stiffer and maybe not as friendly-skiing as the Coomback.  I should get a chance to demo both Lines after Christmas, tho.

 

I probably should've added at the start that another thing I liked about the Coomback other than dimensions, weight, and reported ease of skiing is that it has a rockered tip and flat tail, but the idea of buying without demoing isn't an appealing one!  The Black Diamond Verdict has almost the same dimensions and seems to have similar profile, so maybe it would be a better choice for inbounds powder days and later easy touring...no Haute Route or anything...but I doubt I'll be able to demo that either.  One of those two or something really similar in size, profile, and intended use that's pretty idiot-proof is what I'm after. 

 

Liberty Skis is having a demo day tomorrow, and while nothing in their website grabbed my interest, a demo or two won't hurt.

Any thoughts on the bindings...one of the lighter-weight Markers or Diamir?


Edited by Skierish - 12/19/11 at 5:21pm
post #8 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skierish View Post

To be fair to the S3, the conditions kind of stunk...breakable crust...and the only one they had may have been a tad long for me.  Since Rossi demos are easy to do here, I think I'll give it another try on a powder day.  

I thought about the 98, but Rossi's own site suggests it's a bit burly and aimed at Expert skiers...but there's certainly no harm in giving it a demo also!



try the scimitar from rossi. Its a better ski IMO than the S3.

post #9 of 23

For my .02, given what you've said: Praxis Backcountry is kind of a no-brainer. (although I admit to a Praxis bias)

 

That said, there are a number of skis in the zone you are talking about. Look at the Praxis, DPS & ON3P sites. I'd consider the 105 range a minimum & would not hesitate to go fatter. While not super light, the 180 Salomon Rocker 2 might meet your needs. The JJ is an obvious candidate. etc. The bottom line, as usual, is to find a modern ski - a good rocker profile, smart use of sidecut & early taper. If you use search here and TGR, you'll find many discussions of this exact topic.

 

FWIW, I would not be a fan of skis like the Icelantic Nomad or the Line Influence/Prophet line(s), any of the skinnier Rossis, etc. I just think there are more modern/better designs out there.

post #10 of 23

Definitely give the Rossi S3's another try, everyone I know with them raves about them. Also, I know you said 98-105mm underfoot but I would highly recommend you don't limit yourself in the waist right away. Technology now has given many "fat" skis the ability to perform amazingly on the groomed. Plus, if you're looking for something powder oriented....personally my perfect everyday ski is something 110-115mm. I just demo'd the Lib Tech Pow NAS ski (181cm - 115mm underfoot) over the weekend and they were INCREDIBLE when it came to everything from the groomers to the pow that was around (4-6" of week old untracked). In all honesty I haven't been this excited about a ski since I rode the Moment Bibby Pros last year at a demo. I realize the company (Lib Tech) isn't your typical Rossignol or Volkl type, but they have really made a damn fine ski. I just finished a review of them today actually if you'd like to read it here (See text on the page). 

 

I would also highly recommend the Line Sir Francis Bacon, it's a 108mm underfoot ski and performs very similarly to the Lib Tech Pow NAS. Meaning: I demo'd them last year and found them to be a great ski on both the groomed runs (hard pack that day) and also off-piste in everything from some softer snow to the bumpy crud. I reviewed them as well and you can read that here if you'd like. 

 

Good luck and happy Winter!

post #11 of 23

It is great that you demo'ed a ski and potentially helpful info that you didn't like like it much. The problem is that you haven't said why you didn't like the S3. These other suggestions are all over the map as far as characteristics and without more feedback on your S3 experience, they are completely worthless. (Rest assured there are another dozen or so I could recommend..........and they might be equally worthless as well)

 

So.......back up........tell us what length the S3 was that you demo'ed, what the broad range conditions were, and what you did like as well as what you didn't.

 

Or.......just take allllllll these other suggestions, pin 'em up on a wall and throw a dart.

 

SJ

post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindrift View Post

For my .02, given what you've said: Praxis Backcountry is kind of a no-brainer. (although I admit to a Praxis bias)

 

That said, there are a number of skis in the zone you are talking about. Look at the Praxis, DPS & ON3P sites. I'd consider the 105 range a minimum & would not hesitate to go fatter. While not super light, the 180 Salomon Rocker 2 might meet your needs. The JJ is an obvious candidate. etc. The bottom line, as usual, is to find a modern ski - a good rocker profile, smart use of sidecut & early taper. If you use search here and TGR, you'll find many discussions of this exact topic.

 

FWIW, I would not be a fan of skis like the Icelantic Nomad or the Line Influence/Prophet line(s), any of the skinnier Rossis, etc. I just think there are more modern/better designs out there.


Good info.  I had the Backcountry's and for a resort powder ski like my Lhasa Pows way more.  I would go with the Movement Trust if you want a ski that has a little more hard snow ability.

 

post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

It is great that you demo'ed a ski and potentially helpful info that you didn't like like it much. The problem is that you haven't said why you didn't like the S3. These other suggestions are all over the map as far as characteristics and without more feedback on your S3 experience, they are completely worthless. (Rest assured there are another dozen or so I could recommend..........and they might be equally worthless as well)

 

So.......back up........tell us what length the S3 was that you demo'ed, what the broad range conditions were, and what you did like as well as what you didn't.

 

Or.......just take allllllll these other suggestions, pin 'em up on a wall and throw a dart.

 

SJ


I laughed aloud at that last bit....Damn, he's figured out my selection process!

 

I do appreciate anyone taking the time to consider this and respond, but I mentioned to a friend the responses were....ummm, broad.

O-K, I hope this clarification won't be so long as to put anyone into a coma.... 

I don't know if I have enough experience evaluating skies to pin down precisely what I found wanting in the S3.  I didn't hate it, but maybe the hype had me expecting a ski that could leap buildings in a single bound?  I was about 10 lbs lighter then(weight gain from quitting smoking hadn't fully appeared yet) at 5'10 and 155 or so and wanted to try the 168, but all they had was 178.  I had been skiing on 2005 Rossi Zenith Z5 162cm daily during my 15-18 ski days yearly, which I still love.  So, that S3 may have been a bit long, but it wasn't all that big a deal really.  I think they just weren't well suited to the conditions that day; rock-hard groomers and I could only find breakable crust in the trees, which caused me to take an unusual spill...not exactly confidence-inspiring!  The hard conditions made them not as responsive as I would've liked...I think.  That's why I think I should try them again on a better day for them.

 

The irony is that the groomers were so hard...boilerplate in places...that I demoed a few hard snow skis as well.  I loved the Atomic D2 VF 82 for those conditions, so I bought a pair in 166 for 1/2-price over the summer, and those are now my very hard snow skis.  I still love my old Z5's for softer groomers and shallow soft crud days in the trees and bumps.  But...I still need a ski for powder days and eventually short 1-day or less out-of-bounds tours to neighboring peaks.  3 years ago I was at Jackson Hole after a 12" dump and knew better than to take my 74mm Z5's out, so I asked the shop for a good powder rental.  This was '08 or '09, and they gave me a Fischer Watea 98, which I hated.  It was too "planky" and not very responsive to me.  Lengths of that and the next one were maybe upper 160's.  They then gave me a 92mm K2 Outlaw, which I really liked.  I was comfy on it, it seemed "planted"(?),  I took runs I typically wouldn't...skied down (skied, not hopped or side-slipped!) dbl-blk Expert Chutes for best run ever, before or since.  In short, they instilled a LOT of confidence!  I added those bits in case it's at all helpful for determining my current best option.

 

Background for me: I 1st skied at 17, then a few times in next 10 years as an excuse to do fun, cool stuff with buddies for a few days and drink.  Gave it up for next 9 years, and when I picked it up again, it was fun, but I took it serious and determined to continue to improve each time.  15-18 days a year since...although only 3 last year...it sucked!  Except for last year, took 1 private lesson each year, and liked being pushed and challenged.  Moved to N. Idaho 20 miles from Schweitzer, have season pass, 13 days in already, which should be 60-70 by end of year each year from here on out.  Am also starting a weekly 8-week clinic 01-07 for intermediate-advanced skiers.  I'm realistic about my ability, which is a very strong level 6 flirting with level 7.  An instructor from the upcoming clinic said most skiers of my ability tend to ski a little defensively on steeps with too much concern for speed control, and that's definitely me!  I try to focus on proper technique, and can feel my confidence and ability improving just about daily now.  Hit some steeper bump lines yesterday, and they were fun!  Was on my easy-turning and idiot-proof Z5's...idiot-proof as long as you don't overski them anyway....

 

Lack of past exposure to it means powder is also a weak point.  I don't want to get out of my comfort zone parameters for powder-oriented skis, which after scouring review sites, forums, and talking to shop reps, I've narrowed down to 98-105 in the waist, rockered tip, flat(ish) tail, on the lighter side, forgiving and at home in powder and soft crud, but at least comfortable on groomer glides back to the lift...doesn't punish occasional bouts of laziness at end of the day.  Will be used exclusively for powder days, and really would like to try turn-earning with them sometime soon.  I'm not a charging speed-demon and at my age likely wont become one even as I improve...I like savoring the run.  Occasional speed needs fixed by just-for-fun NASTAR course runs or rocketing a blue groomer...but I have my Atomics for that.  Am now 5'10 and 165 lbs.  Based on all the above, the Coomback in 174 seemed like it would be a good fit...or maybe the B.D. Verdict, but I'm not enough of an authority on gear to know for sure.  Any other ski that meets all or the vast majority of those criteria I would look at...the Line Influence 105 might be a good choice also, for example.  The ability to demo is obviously a plus!

 

Sorry that was sooo long, but I hope it covers all the bases and is specific enough for more targeted recs.

Of course, there's still always the dart approach, I guess....

Thanks for reading it all and any input!

 

 

 


Edited by Skierish - 12/20/11 at 12:30am
post #14 of 23

HI dude!

I'm Austrian myself. Why don't you go for the black crows navis or corvus? These are solid skiis which can also be ridden in the harder stuff or crud!

post #15 of 23

OK.....given the conditions, it is no surprise that you didn't care for the S3. No soft snow oriented ski would have felt very good in those conditions. You have a reasonable target in the width range that you are seeking and your target of tip rise and flat tail is also reasonable. In general, I'd suggest avoiding skis with metal such as the Lines and the Rossi 98 or others like that. I have skied the Coomback and it is a good choice. I can't comment on the current Black Diamonds but have skied quite a few in the past and have not been impressed. The current crop might well be different. You could over-think and over-demo yourself into a state of further confusion so just seeking out the Coomback and be done with it might be a good direction. If you really need more choices, the Nordica Hell and Back would be a very good choice as well. It is 98mm with tip rise, a light core and very good inbounds performance. BTW......You were on the correct size as the S3 skis very short due to tip and tail rise. Mid 170's is the shortest that you should consider.

 

SJ

post #16 of 23

ON3P Vicik

 

That ski would be perfect for you. It would quickly become your everyday ski.  Also, works great as a touring ski, so if you plan on going that way in the future, you'll already have a great ski for backcountry.

 

 

 

 

 

post #17 of 23

Maybe check out the Armada TST, or an Atomic Access. They are both fun and playful powderish skis that can be used daily if needed. The S3 is a similar ski and is a great pick according to your description. Try it again maybe in better snow if you can. If the ski you buy has rocker make sure you buy atleast in the 170cm range. You will likely be looking for a longer ski after this season in Idaho, which is a great thing.  

 

As far as the bindings go between a Marker and a Fritschi, I would say Fritschi. I am biased towards the ability to keep my ski on while taking my skins off. Markers work fine though, Duke or Barons, I have not skied the tours. If you are buying later in the season maybe keep your eye out for the new Atomc hiker that could be available later this season (doubtful). I have been on Markers for the past 3 seasons and do believe that they are more durable than the fritschi's, so if you are skiing the ski a majority of the time(hiking or on piste) the Marker may be the better binder. If you already own bindings that you really like you could look into a MFD alltime plate, but they are heavy. MFD's can be skied hard and you will get fit hiking them. You dont weigh a lot and it doesnt sound like you are a hucker so MFD's are a bit of over kill.

Have fun, Ryon

post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post

OK.....given the conditions, it is no surprise that you didn't care for the S3. No soft snow oriented ski would have felt very good in those conditions. You have a reasonable target in the width range that you are seeking and your target of tip rise and flat tail is also reasonable. In general, I'd suggest avoiding skis with metal such as the Lines and the Rossi 98 or others like that. I have skied the Coomback and it is a good choice. I can't comment on the current Black Diamonds but have skied quite a few in the past and have not been impressed. The current crop might well be different. You could over-think and over-demo yourself into a state of further confusion so just seeking out the Coomback and be done with it might be a good direction. If you really need more choices, the Nordica Hell and Back would be a very good choice as well. It is 98mm with tip rise, a light core and very good inbounds performance. BTW......You were on the correct size as the S3 skis very short due to tip and tail rise. Mid 170's is the shortest that you should consider.

 

SJ

 

Thanks, that is almost certainly what I will do, and I agree about over-thinking it.  I should be able to demo the K2 at another resort fairly nearby, and if lucky maybe the BD.  I'll wait until it snows, tho, and I'll also give the S3 in 178 another try and maybe 1 or 2 close cousins to those options...no more than 4 or 5, tho.  Then I'll pull the trigger.

Liberty Skis had a free demo day at the hill today, so I figured "Why Not?"  Despite hard snow conditions yet again, I gave the Helix in 176 a try, and it only confirmed my desire for a flatter tail.

Just need some fresh snowfall now!  ...both here and at nearby ski areas where K2's can be found.  I'm told they don't sell locally for some reason....
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by butryon View Post

Maybe check out the Armada TST, or an Atomic Access. They are both fun and playful powderish skis that can be used daily if needed. The S3 is a similar ski and is a great pick according to your description. Try it again maybe in better snow if you can. If the ski you buy has rocker make sure you buy atleast in the 170cm range. You will likely be looking for a longer ski after this season in Idaho, which is a great thing.  

 

As far as the bindings go between a Marker and a Fritschi, I would say Fritschi. I am biased towards the ability to keep my ski on while taking my skins off. Markers work fine though, Duke or Barons, I have not skied the tours. If you are buying later in the season maybe keep your eye out for the new Atomc hiker that could be available later this season (doubtful). I have been on Markers for the past 3 seasons and do believe that they are more durable than the fritschi's, so if you are skiing the ski a majority of the time(hiking or on piste) the Marker may be the better binder. If you already own bindings that you really like you could look into a MFD alltime plate, but they are heavy. MFD's can be skied hard and you will get fit hiking them. You dont weigh a lot and it doesnt sound like you are a hucker so MFD's are a bit of over kill.

Have fun, Ryon

 

Thanks, like I said to SJ above, the 178cm S3 will get another try once we get more than a dusting of snow.

I like the convenience aspect of the Fritschi also, but since I won't be doing a LOT of uphill, and short tours will likely be only occasional things, I'll probably go with a Marker.  I'm not an aggressive, cliff-dropping skier, so maybe one of the lighter ones.  I'll have to fiddle with one, but one of the tours looks like it may be a good fit.  Decisions.....
 

 

post #19 of 23

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^  It's been almost two years since the last post. I s'pect the OP has made up his mind by now.

 

Just Sayin'.................SJ

post #20 of 23

How do 2 year old threads get unknowingly bumped:confused

post #21 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post
 

I s'pect the OP has made up his mind by now.

 

Either that, or she is disturbingly familiar with how indecisive I can be!

post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by liv2 ski View Post

How do 2 year old threads get unknowingly bumped:confused

Newbies.
post #23 of 23

tis' the season, I got a PM inquiring about a jacket I listed and sold in 2009 yesterday  :D

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