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MA - early season groomed turns - Page 2

post #31 of 39
12/16/11 at 6:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaobrien6 View Post


I'll preface this by saying that most of these technique discussions go right over my head.  I just don't understand the terminology, etc.

 

Having said that, can you explain to me what's so different about these two pictures?  Maybe I could see it in a video, but in a still shot, these don't look *that* different to me.  Different, sure, but not night-and-day different.  Do I just not understand what I'm looking at?

 

 

Alex is leaning more, you can see that in the picutre and I quote from previous post
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

2. Get your armpit over your outside ski.
Creates some angle at the waist

 

About counter, also shown in the picture as Rusty described.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

 

The first movement I would introduce to you is turning into counter. If you look at the finish of your first left turn in the opening clip, your upper body stays pretty square to the skis. Your head is turned downhill, creating an appearance of counter, but your right (downhill) hand is leading straight ahead, while your left (uphill/inside) hand is bend and behind.

 



 

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post #32 of 39
12/17/11 at 12:28pm
Nice skiing, alexzn! Takes guts to put your video up and you have certainly made progress and become much smoother from earlier videos.

As Bud says, it is always worthwhile to experiment with your boots! Certainly could be room for improvement there, but I am not convinced it is time to fire your boot fitter (doesn't sound like you are either) or spend a bunch more time there at this point. I see the possibility Bud mentions for delta to be improved and the A-frame. However, I also think a lot (if not all) of that will clean up if you incorporate the suggestions you have already received in this thread. To that end, here is a fantasy construct of technique that might contribute to look like an alignment issue…

Many have mentioned you rotate into the turn. As Adie indicated, this reduces your ability to create angles at the hip and your hip moves out over the downhill ski causing it to flatten and washout. Solution: Knee angulation while levering the tongue of the boot to get the ski to bite. Presto, an A-frame with a little down stem to a platform. The ski does bite and stalls as the tip augers in so you pile up on the tongue of the boot (flexing it more); you are counting on this, it is how you slow your feet and catchup with them (and stop your rotation). But anticipating and resisting the slow down of the feet causes you to hang back a bit, so it appears your torso is a bit upright from ideal compared to your lower leg. Piled up on the outside boot tongue you push off of the platform you created powering your rotation into the new turn while stepping away from the boot blocking your forward motion and onto the new outside ski…

Or not…

Anyway, my two cents is you can get more from coaching at this point then from a boot fitter (quiet, don't tell Bud). As TheRusty describes you have some fundamental movements to change, if you learn the new movement patterns that have been described you can start to flow actively and smoothly across the skis from one turn into the next. At that point I think gross angles will have cleaned up and you will be down to fine tuning on the boots.
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post #33 of 39
12/17/11 at 1:53pm

Good call Chris. It is definitely not all boots and I hope I did not insinuate that it was?  From what I see, at one time during his development he used primarily upper body rotation but has since learned to turn his feet and lower legs better and has some unneeded remnants to eliminate.  I do agree with Chris's critique though and those that suggested javelin turn drills to help change the habitual movements of the hips through the turns.

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post #34 of 39
12/17/11 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud heishman View Post

Good call Chris. It is definitely not all boots and I hope I did not insinuate that it was?


Not at all, I was just fun'n about not telling the boot fitter in you there might be something other than boots wink.gif
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post #35 of 39
12/18/11 at 6:55am

work on releasing and tipping to start your turns.

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post #36 of 39
12/18/11 at 1:08pm
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and I appreciate the praise and critique.  No, no, no, I am not about to fire my bootfitter, not anytime soon :-).

 

Few of my own thoughts:  I don't think I am relying exclusively on upper body rotation or heel pushing as I would not been able to ski half of the terrain I am skiing.   I do agree with the lack of counter observations, and I will be working on that (Javelin turns and Bud suggested, and I also read about the pole pointing drill in the Fellows book that seems to promote proper counter).  In the past I used to rely on up-unweighting and pivot, I got rid of some of that, but there is clearly baggage remaining there.  The left hand is still doing something weird, the right hand less so, but maybe getting the counter right will cure that (or maybe getting the hands to behave will cure the lack of counter).  I am also thinking that I should focus in shifting the edge pressure earlier in the turn, should help with smoothing things out.   I did notice this tendency to freeze in second half of the turn just riding the edge of the ski,  if I try to relax the outside leg at the end of the turn, that would help me to flow over the skis earlier and hopefully smoother.  The drill I am thinking of trying is long leg/short leg (should also help with counter, right?), and just trying to focus on the timing and play with it while skiing with the poles up to keep the counter in check.  Thoughts? I will try to post a follow-up video.    Thnaks again for everyone for looking and for suggestions.   

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post #37 of 39
12/18/11 at 1:15pm
Thread Starter 

Hey, not that I disagree with the analysis and the overall conclusion, but in both pictures the skier's shoulders are facing downhill.   This is just a different phase of the turn.  What I see is the upper body leaning into the turn way too much (most likely a symptom of the lack of counter).   
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by slider View Post

 

Howdy Alexz,

Check out the difference in these 2 skiers body angles. Skiing into counter. Hopefully no one will recognize the bottom skier,this could be considered on the fringe of banishment.

 

 

 

skia.jpg

 

keystone%20counter%20before%20release.jpg



 

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post #38 of 39
12/18/11 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Hey, not that I disagree with the analysis and the overall conclusion, but in both pictures the skier's shoulders are facing downhill.   This is just a different phase of the turn.  What I see is the upper body leaning into the turn way too much (most likely a symptom of the lack of counter).   
 



 



That's the point.

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post #39 of 39
12/19/11 at 10:19pm
Thread Starter 

Just spent a day doing mostly drills for counter enhancing (pretty hard to do it safely at a crowded Squaw early season run).  I think I am making a bit of progress, the top picture is from last week, the bottom today, both taken from almost the same point.  I'd love to get the shoulders to be more squared to the hill though, I think there is still some shoulder rotation going. 

Counter_12_2011.jpg

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