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Dietary Supplements on the Slopes?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Does anybody here take creatine, endurance aids, or any other dietary supplements to augment performance out on the slopes?

 

If so, which ones, and what was your experience?

 

 

I found creatine did nothing for skiing (actually made it worse as it made me heavier; creatine was not used for specific purpose of augmenting ski performance, but was used for workout routines going on at time), but I have nothing but great things to say about Sport Legs calcium lactate supplement, which does a great job at buffering excessive H+ ions generated while skiing long runs.  The latter I will only use if I am at a hill that exceeds 1500 of vert.

post #2 of 29

I personally haven't taken any, but id assume those BCAA would do you good? My friend has tried taking Nitric Oxide and he seemed to be more confident on the hills and his endurance was up as well.

post #3 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jilani View Post

I personally haven't taken any, but id assume those BCAA would do you good? My friend has tried taking Nitric Oxide and he seemed to be more confident on the hills and his endurance was up as well.


Interesting... I'm particularly interested in vasodilating supplements to improve performance at elevation.  I've heard ginko biloba (and viagra) do quite well at altitude.

 

post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post


Interesting... I'm particularly interested in vasodilating supplements to improve performance at elevation.

 


Juice Plus (the Vineyard blend in particular for ^^^^).

 

post #5 of 29

I take mega men joint from gnc if Im going to be doing some hard skiing. It seems to help with soreness and swelling in my repaired and damaged knees, maybe its just the placebo effect, either way it helps me at least think I feel better.

post #6 of 29

I am on a regimen of Hammer Nutrition Tissue Rejuvenators (glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM/anti-inflammatories) and  Mitos (mitochondrial aid important in energy delivery) and increase Mitos and add endurolytes (electrolyte replenishment) for multi-hour bc skiing involving significant exertion and sweating; I use Hammer Bars in addition to a lunch for long, intensive days.

 

Results?  Subjective, of course.  Been using this for a decade so I must like it.  My wife also uses these products.  Both of us are medicine and, especially, pain-killer averse; I, however, have to use NSAIDS upon occasion and the TRs reduce the need for that.  I have a number of competitive-athlete friends who use these products and other of Hammer's products.

 

Check out not only their products but also the documentation of efficacy they provide (articles in refereed scientific journals) and their newsletters and make a reasoned judgement before purchasing Hammer or any other supplements.  http://www.hammernutrition.com/ The medical community in general is dismissive of supplements for general use.

 

Hammer Nutrition serves endurance athletes.  I'm not sure if a few hours of lift-served skiing qualifies or requires more than a good diet and reasonable hydration--good training/physical preparation, however, is crucial. High quality supplements are expensive; cheap supplements may do more  harm than good.

 

Disclaimer: I have no relationship to Hammer Nutrition other than being a customer.

post #7 of 29

For a counter-position: I think supplements are basically BS, notably over the short term, and potentially dangerous (for a number of reasons) over the long term. It's one thing to shift, within moderate boundaries, the balance of certain inputs (fats, carbs, proteins, say; or even at a more granular level, adjusting the balance of types of fats, carbs, or proteins), but it's another thing if you think that you can eat a special mixture of vitamins, compounds, and other ingredients so as to increase your performance.* **

 

For healthy people (those without major disease or at the extreme spectrum of various biological variances): Eat a healthy, balanced diet. Drink enough liquids to remain hydrated.

 

*The exception, being, that plenty of things can be use to impact performance, most notably drugs from amphetamines (aka speed) to caffeine to hormones. But these things are also easy to test for their performance enhancement, and are generally outlawed by sport governing bodies (for "fairness") or governments (for long-term health implications). 

 

**The  second exception being very specific applications, such as ultra-marathoning (which probably isn't "healthy" anyway), where the body has been pushed longer and further than it is designed to go, entering unsafe workout zones, where specific (and empirically-based) regimens can help: high-calorie foods, rehydration, etc. 

post #8 of 29

No, but I have been a caffeine addict since I was a kid.  I also take a multi-vitamen to compensate for being too lazy to plan a proper diet.

post #9 of 29

there is a significant group of older skiers using testosterone for performance enhancement: reflexes, strength, balance, courage. I just heard this. is there less cancer danger if your own natural testosterone is falling off? Is there a cancer danger for people in their 50's + ?  this is for recreational skiers that I'm hearing about.

 

no, this is not: I have a friend who uses testosterone.....roflmao.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by justruss View Post

For a counter-position: I think supplements are basically BS, notably over the short term, and potentially dangerous (for a number of reasons) over the long term. It's one thing to shift, within moderate boundaries, the balance of certain inputs (fats, carbs, proteins, say; or even at a more granular level, adjusting the balance of types of fats, carbs, or proteins), but it's another thing if you think that you can eat a special mixture of vitamins, compounds, and other ingredients so as to increase your performance.* **

 

For healthy people (those without major disease or at the extreme spectrum of various biological variances): Eat a healthy, balanced diet. Drink enough liquids to remain hydrated.

 

*The exception, being, that plenty of things can be use to impact performance, most notably drugs from amphetamines (aka speed) to caffeine to hormones. But these things are also easy to test for their performance enhancement, and are generally outlawed by sport governing bodies (for "fairness") or governments (for long-term health implications). 

 

**The  second exception being very specific applications, such as ultra-marathoning (which probably isn't "healthy" anyway), where the body has been pushed longer and further than it is designed to go, entering unsafe workout zones, where specific (and empirically-based) regimens can help: high-calorie foods, rehydration, etc. 



 

post #10 of 29
Thread Starter 

Davluri, I believe for any older man taking exogenous testosterone there is an increased risk for prostate enlargement and cancer.  If testosterone was already high, I don't think there is any less risk.

 

Of course prostate problems are often associated with dihydrotestosterone and estrogen, two metabolites of testosterone (especially extra).

 

And then other things like chronic prostatitis may predispose individuals to more serious prostate issues later in life.

 

Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy is perhaps the most serious risk of trt, but probably wouldn't happen at low dosages.

 

 

 

If a man is set on trt, they might have to take a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor like dutasteride to mitigate prostate risks.  Of course, this can potentate aromatization to estrogen 

post #11 of 29

“Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” (Michael Pollan)

 

"Mmm, beer." (Homer Simpson)

 

That is all.

post #12 of 29
Most supplements are meant for weight lifting exercise at the gym. Its designed to work for roughly an hour and not the whole day. Also the after effects are pretty bad. I take superpump maxx at the gym and there is no way I would consume before skiing.
post #13 of 29

I stay clear of supplements for skiing, but I do take a good protein w/BCAA after skiing.  Might be worth taking before and after.

post #14 of 29

 

Try Vitamin E... and kiwi fruit.   
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post


Interesting... I'm particularly interested in vasodilating supplements to improve performance at elevation.  I've heard ginko biloba (and viagra) do quite well at altitude.

 



Don't go overboard with that, or your nosebleeds will never stop and your fall-bruising will be decidedly choice.

post #15 of 29
Vitamin B is what you want for skiing.
post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by ts01 View Post

“Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.” (Michael Pollan)

 

"Mmm, beer." (Homer Simpson)

 

That is all.



This. 

 

 

Actually, a number studies, over many years, have shown pretty dramatic increases in endurance for sports like cycling, running, etc (with an indication this applies to sprint-and-jog sports like soccer)-- with caffeine use prior to the activity. 

 

When I was playing soccer competitively, I made a habit of coffee about an hour before a match. That gave me enough time to get the jitters out (I was caffeine naive), to pee, to stay hydrated. Anecdotally (which doesn't mean much), I felt like I had more oomph at the end of matches. But, honestly, it was most likely placebo/suggestion/false impression on my part. 

 

I still stand by the idea that eating a round diet is enough, unless you're a world class athlete fighting over thousandths of a second. In which case, a "round" diet isn't enough-- nor are off-the-shelf supplements with questionable (see: potentially dangerous) side-effects if they're pure, and many of which, when tested by reputable, neutral labs, have been shown to have shocking amounts of impurities (from pretty inert shit, to heavy metals and other highly toxic substances, to prescription pharmaceuticals). If you're a world class athlete-- no, that doesn't include ski bums who get on the mountain every skiable day of the year-- you work one on one to tailor your diet to your body composition, sport, and other factors. You train at different elevations. Adding supplements might make sense, from a scientific angle, for a specific activity, where a world class athlete is right at the edge of physical performance-- when repeatable performance can test the benefit of the chosen diet/regimen. And then there's the illegal shit, like steroids, amphetamines (and other stimulants; see: most sports pre-last quarter of the 20th century, or current day U.S. Air Force long-range bomber pilots), EPO.

 

For those interested in why I say even seemingly innocuous substances (antioxidants such as Vit E, say) as supplements (and not via normal diet) can be dangerous, I suggest a quick glance at the literature. The Cochrane reviews-- which, like all studies/meta-studies, has weaknesses-- is a good place to start:

http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD007176/no-evidence-to-support-antioxidant-supplements-to-prevent-mortality-in-healthy-people-or-patients-with-various-diseases

 

Conclusion: Supplementation with antioxidants, in healthy and unhealthy subjects (comparing many, many studies), didn't improve mortality. With most of the antioxidant supplements considered, notably Vitamin E, taking the supplements increased mortality. 

 

As for me: I drink coffee to wake up these days. So yeah, that's about the limit for my performance enhancement... being able to function at all in the morning. 

post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by huhh View Post

Vitamin B is what you want for skiing.


The nitric oxide supplement my friend took had 30mcg of vitamin b12 ,, so that might be helping him alot. But speaking from experience, l-arginie and beta alinie does wonders which is part of most nitric oxides these days.

post #18 of 29

Check out snowgrenades.com The early bird grenade is a new pre riding powder supplement which gives a high level of energy throughout your riding, reduces fatuiged muscles and  speeds up recovery process. 

post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomjacko View Post
 

Check out snowgrenades.com The early bird grenade is a new pre riding powder supplement which gives a high level of energy throughout your riding, reduces fatuiged muscles and  speeds up recovery process. 


And it comes in my favorite flavor: SPAM.

post #20 of 29

Holy bump!

 

Enough false claims on this thread it's worth posting even after 3 years. Completely bewildered why anyone would take supplements specifically for skiing. Neither a particularly aerobic sport nor a particularly power sport. And even at the extremes of sports like weight lifting or distance running, lot of controversy whether any nutritional supplementation does anything significant. Go ask a nutritional biochemist about whey and stand well back. 

 

As far as hypoxia, which I know something about, oral NO that isn't lost in the GI tract has a half life in the bloodstream of about 2.7 seconds, as I recall. You can ski with a gas delivery system and mask, assuming you can afford a portable unit + the gas itself. Probably only 10K plus the liquified gas. No biggie. Or just keep hitting poppers. Or taking nitroglycerin, until your heart gives out after one run.

 

Best approach: Marry a Tibetan, watch your children ski without breathing hard. 

 

Unclear why you'd want to use B-12, since it's a NO scavenger. Not clear when, how, or if the binding's reversible in vivo.  Ditto to consuming molecules that are vaguely precursors to NO production in vivo. I love how people who slept through high school chemistry suddenly thinking that if a website says some chemical they sell appears somewhere in a metabolic pathway, hey, take more and it'll, uh, do stuff. If some is necessary, more is better. So you shell out your bucks, and whoa, it sure seems to work. Vast literature on placebo effect. Go read up...;)

.

I like Justruss's caffeine idea; lot of studies indicate it enhances athletic performance. 

 

Bottom line: No magic free rides. If you want to ski better and longer, go hit the gym and push yourself. Day after day. And have coffee, not beer, at lunch on the slopes.

post #21 of 29

Creatine, Glutamine, Cal/Mag. B complex, D, CQ10  proper hydration among other stuff.....  but Beyond is right, no free rides.  


Edited by Finndog - 9/19/14 at 11:20am
post #22 of 29

Recent study seems to show testosterone does not improve performance (on the slopes or anywhere else) in older men. Read it in the newspaper a few days ago, can't recall the original source but it was a refereed medical journal.

I remember reading Hermann Buhl's autobiography--great Austrian climber. He summitted the first ascent of Nanga Parbat in 1953--solo and climbing continuously for over 24 hours, which he managed by taking amphetamines every time he was about to collapse. They used to give them to soldiers too, for all I know they still do. Probably not what folks on this forum are looking for though.

post #23 of 29

^  I saw the news about that study but I didn't see who paid for it. 

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

^  I saw the news about that study but I didn't see who paid for it. 

I went back to the newspaper--wasn't a study but an FDA advisory panel recommendation--they didn't say the stuff doesn't work but that there is no evidence that it does, and that there is concern, but not conclusive proof, that it raises heart attack and stroke risk. So I have to retract my original post.


Edited by oldgoat - 9/21/14 at 3:05pm
post #25 of 29
Thanks!!!

What I would like to understand is if the use of testosterone was accompanied by some kind of condition/training program. Most supplements don't do much if you don't accompany them with rigorous workouts. For instance Creatine won't do anything if you aren't weight training or similar intense workouts. Millions on the line here for the Pharma's. hard to trust them!
Edited by Finndog - 9/22/14 at 4:00am
post #26 of 29

I forgot all about Vitamin Ski.  Quite the troll he was.  

post #27 of 29

Interesting thread, seems a spam magnet.

 

Vitamin D3, in liquid form, 4000 IU.  May be placeboid, but when I began to exceed 3000 IU, I felt great.

 

An old high school acquaintance of mine was a vitamin D zealot for a while (she's since turned to Keystone XL).  She'd had a close shave with death, apparently, which doctors attributed to very low vit. D levels.  After that, everything was caused by low D: colds, cancer, unhappy marriages, everything.  I once mentioned in an FB post that my wife had blown her ACL, and she pounced on it, declaring that low D was the cause.  I was skeptical, naturally, but she came back with coherent, if insistent, medical reasoning (she's an EMT) having to do with joint elasticity, vitamin D, and women.  

 

When I told her, a little smugly, that, HA!, my wife was in the middle of a prescribed vitamin D course, that she was taking gazillion-unit tablets every week, my friend shot back that that was the wrong kind of vitamin D -- not assimilate-able because of something to do with X, Y, and Z.  Whatever.

 

So to shorten the long story, we started taking 3000 IU of vitamin D3 liquid on the advice of my wife's OB/GYN (J did, anyway, and I poached).  Seemed fine.  Then the doctor recommended an increase, and it was more than fine.  It was super-fantastic.

 

Maybe it's placebo, but I knock on wood, too, and that's worked great.

post #28 of 29
Does Alleve count as a dietary supplement for skiiing?biggrin.gif;)
post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgarnett View Post

Does Alleve count as a dietary supplement for skiiing?biggrin.gif;)

 

Well, Vitamin I does :D

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