EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Curing "ALP" (American Lavatory Position)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Curing "ALP" (American Lavatory Position)

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

My buddy and I are preparing for L3 skiing exam at the end of this season.  He is a good FAST skier and a popular instructor.  BUT he has a very well rehearsed squat that will DQ him, I'm certain, when we get to the exam.  He can ski anywhere, loves to go fast and steep (and even bumpy, if you can imagine, after volunteering to give up half his range of flexstension).  So, toss up question for you full certs and otherwise expert instructors:  Do you have a bullet proof, three step progression that makes people ski taller and be happy about it?

post #2 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by molesaver View Post

My buddy and I are preparing for L3 skiing exam at the end of this season.  He is a good FAST skier and a popular instructor.  BUT he has a very well rehearsed squat that will DQ him, I'm certain, when we get to the exam.  He can ski anywhere, loves to go fast and steep (and even bumpy, if you can imagine, after volunteering to give up half his range of flexstension).  So, toss up question for you full certs and otherwise expert instructors:  Do you have a bullet proof, three step progression that makes people ski taller and be happy about it?



ski with your boot unbuckled and tone back terrain!

post #3 of 13

Alignment.

 

 

post #4 of 13

super slow parallel turns, can't release from one turn to the next going as slow as you can on any steepness of terrain and have both skis stay parallel ( no stem at all) if one is in the back seat or the as you say ALP (thats a good one). If one is back it is a 2 part move to get into the turn. If the hips are back they have to come up (1) then cross (2) over the skis to get into the new turn(release edges). If one is standing taller with less flex of the knee then the hips are more centered over the skis and will flow into the new turn without the stem. It is hidden (stem) at high speeds but readily shows up on SLOW round turns.

post #5 of 13
Video might shame him into a more forward stance. You can only get there if you really want to.
post #6 of 13
Yes--and post the video here, so we can see what's actually going on. If it's what you say it is, he'll get plenty of, um, "feedback."

wink.gif

Best regards,
Bob
post #7 of 13

Molesaver, I can't tell you how many cert 2 instructors have asked me for a prescription they can regurgitate during a test. What generally happens is their examiner sees right through that sort of thinking and says something like
"well that didn't work, what else you got?"

So let me help you by saying Rote responses and progressions work very well at lower cert levels but by cert 3 you need to have a more comprehensive understanding of the mechanics and why your suggested prescriptions should work.

 

With that being said, let's explore why he squats so much. Has he ever expressed his reasons for skiing in a low  / aft stance? If so, then please share them. If not, then we are only guessing and more than likely not guessing correctly why he uses that stance. It's also unlikely that we could convince him to make any changes without understanding why he skis like he skis. So, instead of using him specifically, perhaps we could make up the information we would normally gather in the student interview and MA section of the test. Here goes...

 

... Sam the squatter is originally from Florida and grew up water skiing. He lives in Aspen now and even though he's a strong advanced skier he has expressed trouble absorbing big bumps and blows up after only about five turns when he skis Roberto's. Out on the hill he exhibits a low and aft stance, a  strong edge check at the end of the turn followed by a rebound rotary push off move with his legs.

 

As his coach you feel a taller stance might help him extend his Vertical RoM and his more vertical femurs would generally keep his hips out of the back seat. But how do you convince him to make those changes? After that what activities would you use to help him learn a new taller movement pattern?

 

1. pivot slips and falling leafs

2. slow round short radius turns

3. slalom race gates

4. switch short radius turns

5. something else

 

Give your reason for why each would work, or not work well to promote a taller more centered stance...  

post #8 of 13

I'm not an instructor, but I had a horrible time trying to stand up from a crouch until I got boots with a different forward lean angle in them.  I could physically stand up taller, but it affected my balance, so the crouch would always return.

 

Somewhere in the instruction forums there's diagrams indicating what happens to a skier's thighs / upper-body-positioning as the forward-lean angle changes in an effort to remain in balance.  I'm pretty sure either cgeib or Bob Barnes drew them originally.

post #9 of 13
Here ya go, Kevin:

382

Related to this and other concurrent threads about forward lean and how boot setup can affect fore-aft balance, this diagram shows several things. First, it shows that boot setup (factors that affect the angles of the ankle and the shin--most critical in stiff, snug-fitting high-performance boots) does not necessarily directly affect fore-aft balance. In the first column of the illustration, you can see that all three skiers can stand centered over the same part of their foot, whether optimally setup, too upright (skier B), or too much forward lean (skier C). But to accomplish that, skiers B and C have to compensate with awkward and dysfunctional stances. And as the second and third columns show, non-optimal setup restricts their range of "vertical" (tall-short) motion.

Cutting to the chase, based on your description, Molesaver, it is at least possible that your friend has too much forward lean, like skier C in the illustration. As "C2" shows, a skier with this boot problem cannot extend fully without losing balance too far forward, and is often most "comfortable" (even though it's hard on the thighs) skiing in a lower position.

But really, I would not take any of the suggestions here too seriously, as without actually seeing and perhaps talking with your friend, anyone here can only surmise what might be happening.

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #10 of 13

Yup, couldn't agree more about throwing out advice without more information. That's why I made up Sam the squatter and offered him up as an example of a more complete profile. Investigating his boot set up would certainly be a good starting point.

post #11 of 13
Thread Starter 

You folks are the best.  Thanks so much for the tips - both the ones about things that might work for squatting Sam and the ones about how more data is really needed AND the ones about my understanding needs to be deeper for exam time.  When I finally get my pin it will be in part because of YOUR wisdom.  Thanks again.

 

And, oh yeah, ALP is mine.  The kids love it.  When it is time to give em back to the parents, they keep telling each other to get out of the ALPs and cracking each other up.  Parents are mystified and that makes it even funnier.

post #12 of 13

Here ya go... In a recent and great day-long session here at Whistler... We skied 7,000 vert with our hands on our knees doing Roller-blade turns when on shallow slopes... and on steeper pitches = hands off the knees: With NO Change in Body Position. Femur rotation in the hips allows knees to move laterally. Lower body position gets you quicker, steeper edge angles and more frequent Slalom turns.  Maintaining shin pressure while doing this = fore/aft balance

I got so centered that all that tall dignified crap went into lateral displacements and now I totally wang the SL's from side to side with fury and sparks.

This exercise changed my skiing and gave me a better range of motion... a lower default/recovery reflex. I rarely get in the back seat now and more lateral legs and better terrain absorbtion in bumps.

This still allows for inclination - but from a lower hip position relative to the snow -  you get to drag your inside hand and tall in the legs lets you pile on the G's.


Edited by g-force - 12/24/11 at 10:45pm
post #13 of 13
Good stuff, G-Force!

Merry Christmas and best regards,
Bob
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Instruction & Coaching
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Curing "ALP" (American Lavatory Position)