People are scaring me.

I agree.  Those WROD's can be terrifying right now.  It's like driving home during a rush hour commute.  I would say that things have gotten better for the reason you state but also worse for the reason you state, so overall everything's pretty much the same.

I was up at Loon Mountain (NH) on Sunday.  I had to work Saturday, but I figured it would be a little empty on Sunday because the Patriots would be playing.  At any rate, I had the same thoughts you posted -- .  Yes, most people couldn't turn at all.

I think due to the ease of turning (or at least pivoting) a shorter ski (compared to their precursors, the 190+ "straight" skis), most people are skiing faster than they previously did, all the while thinking they are in control because they are "turning".

My remedies to this are to ski right along the tree line when I ski groomers -- better snow is there and people seem to find a modicum of "control" when they start getting close to the trees.  :)  And ski bumps a bunch.  The out-of-control-pivot-slip-your-way-down type seem to have enough sense to realize that bump skiing and their technical abilities would not be a good match.

Avoiding the is a way of life for the SL carver or a GS ripper. If you haven't felt the power of the carve you just can't explain it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveJazz 

Even when it isn't a matter of WROD danger, it just amazes me that people find 200 foot tail slides down the fall line gratifying. Skiing like that, I just feel that eventually, something bad is going to happen.

 

It's like people need a ski that performs best when the skier is leaning back and standing erect, because that's what everyone is doing. I literally want to cheer when I see that one person who knows how to use their skis. I give the beginners a break. They are learning. It's the people who clearly think they are hot shit that grind at me. It's especially funny when you see someone with a $1200 pair of all mountain expert or carving skis leaning back and pushing their tails around. Can I have them, please?

 

 

 

I just wish people knew how fun it is to actually turn. I am going to start handing out pamphlets on the lift. 

 

Good luck with the pamphlet campaign.  I wish you'd started earlier ... I'm currentlly sidelined with bruised ribs and chest because one of those yahoos took me out from behind a few weeks ago.  These unguided human missiles are a good reason not to crank up your binding DIN when skiing public slopes.

Casting my memory back to the 1960s and 1970s, it seems to me that folks, at least me and the folks I skied with, were skiing just as fast and out of control as today's skiers.  It's no better and no worse, except that the WROD is a little more crowded.

I avoid being run into by skiing much faster than the unguided missiles; they are easier to avoid when they are, relatively to your speed, closer to imobile objects. Of course this technique requires that you have good control and judgement.  Total awareness of what's around you is essential.

When I have to ski slowly, for example skiing with family and friends who need a blocker, I am prepared to block.  A few decades of full contact karate gives you a little natural ability to deflect hits, and to be creative with ski poles and skis.

Two words (or WRODS?)

SNOW BOARDERS

Two words,

ALPINE SKIERS!

It is difficult for an unskilled snowboarder to go fast without falling down first. The same can not be said of skiers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiveJazz 

Do you think skiing has become more dangerous because of the higher speeds that less skilled skiers are achieving, without needing a technical skills base? Or was it even worse before modern gear allowed greater control at high speeds?

From my POV, it is waaay worse now, for more reasons than just modern gear.

JF

Quote:

Originally Posted by telerod15 

Two words,

 

ALPINE SKIERS!

 

It is difficult for an unskilled snowboarder to go fast without falling down first. The same can not be said of skiers.

I actually think it's the opposite.  Snowboarders seem to learn fairly quickly that they can point 'em, get going really fast and then heel slide to slow down.  Repeat as necessary.

Yep, lots of "misguided missles" on the slopes. I agree with Ghost-ya gotta be able to outrun them and be totally aware of what's around

at all times. One other aspect that hasn't been mentioned-grooming. A bumpy or icy run will slow the OC speedsters down in a hurry.

We'll see tomorrow-it'll be my first day on the WROD.........

We ski big sky and even there we try to stay on the blacks and trees to avoid problem skiers. Makes us nervous just to ski Deer Valley! Can not imagine an icy New England weekend!

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveturner 

We ski big sky and even there we try to stay on the blacks and trees to avoid problem skiers. Makes us nervous just to ski Deer Valley! Can not imagine an icy New England weekend!

Most things imagined are way scarier than reality. Our own imagination know us better than ourselves.

Skiing in high density traffic is like driving in NYC. It’s not that difficult or scary. Just have to get use to it and everything will be all right. It’s actually fun once you get good at it. You know you have arrived when move faster than the cabs and they get pissed at you.  

I’ve to disagree with you on DV. DV is actually really good skiing. I know exactly where all the skiers are – not on the black runs. So if you are on the black runs then you are in hog heaven. DV is one of my favorite areas around SLC – up there with Snowbird & Powder Mountain.

I’ve been skiing New England for 30+ years. It’s not bad if you practice what Ghost been preaching - moving faster than the misguided missiles. The best defense is a good offense. Be a fast mover and keep track of the skiers around you, especially the ones behind you. Also practice some common sense – don’t frequent the hangouts of the out of control skiers – green & blue runs. In my past 7 years of skiing Killington with a season pass I’ve never been to the Ramshead and Snowshed – the two exclusively green & blue areas on the mountain. Wonder why? Should be obvious. However, we’ve been known to stay exclusively in the all black sections like Bear Mountain and the canyon area for a whole weekend when it’s a holiday.

Actually the scariest run with the most out of control skier I’ve ever been on was upper section of Chips Run @ Snowbird before they re-contoured it a few seasons back, before the tunnel was put in. It’s much better now.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinF 

I actually think it's the opposite.  Snowboarders seem to learn fairly quickly that they can point 'em, get going really fast and then heel slide to slow down.  Repeat as necessary.

Could you point it downhill and go fast your first time? Many people can on skis. Most people cannot on a snowboard.  Your experience may be exceptional. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinF 

I actually think it's the opposite.  Snowboarders seem to learn fairly quickly that they can point 'em, get going really fast and then heel slide to slow down.  Repeat as necessary.

Well, you're wrong.  And you probably shouldn't be commenting on snowboarders if you lack such basic knowledge.

A newbie on a snowboard isn't going to stay vertical long enough to pick up anything more than moderate speed.   Besides problems with catching an edge, new snowboarders also have issues with weight distribution.... their instinct when they get going faster than they are comfortable with is to weight the back leg which brings the back end of the board around in a turn, spinning them, slowing them and tossing them right onto their face/butt.

The boarders who can (more or less) keep the board pointed downhill can get going faster, but have to deal with the shunts and jumps that come with increased speed.  If you cannot hold an edge on a snowboard (which most new boarders cannot do), then you will not stay standing for very long unless you're very, very good (or very, very lucky).

As a skier myself who mostly hangs with other skiers, I must admit that the accidents/collisions I've had have mostly been with other skiers.  Most new, out of control snowboarders spend more time on the ground than they do actually boarding, so they are pretty easy to avoid for me.  My problem with boarders is they often fall/congregate at the absolute worst areas, such as narrow turns on a steep run.  What makes it worse is they don't even try to move out of the way---they just sit there talking/laughing while others are scrambling to avoid them as they approach.  There have been plenty of times where I've ended up off the trail and skiing against the out of bounds fence because there simply was nowhere for me to go; it was either that or slam into them.  With that being said, I've been run into by a good few skiers and have had countless close encounters with others, including several in which the skier was pointed nose down and pretty much out of control.  As others have said, the key to avoiding 90% of the idiots out there is to get good enough to ski blacks and stick to those; in my opinion the most dangerous runs are the blue ones, as they attract the crowd that are just starting to advance and have gained a good bit of confidence, but still not exactly good skiers/boarders with sound judgement.  At least on (most) greens you can only go so fast regardless of skill, whereas on most blues you can really get moving.  But, even on blacks you must keep your wits about you as there's always that 2-5% that can screw your day or season up, though I'll take that any day over a typical weekend day on a blue/green run.

The people I can't stand the most are the gapers who (typically on easier sections of blue and black runs, especially near the bottom) will get speed and cut you off, while usually slowing down in the process immediately afterwards.  They then have no clue why you're mad at them or, better yet, they get upset at you for suddenly skiing too close behind them.  Most often they are the weekend warriors who ski 4-5 times a year tops but act as if they're training for the upcoming winter olympics, and unfortunately are very common in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by telerod15 

Could you point it downhill and go fast your first time? Many people can on skis. Most people cannot on a snowboard.  Your experience may be exceptional. 

 

I spent two seasons teaching, mostly never-evers.  Offhand, I can't remember a single one who was in the least bit inclined to "point it downhill and go fast" on the first day out.  Perhaps some people can; I sure didn't.

As I do most of my skiing on crowded slopes in Western NY I do have to deal with the masses quite a bit.  My approach is similar to what others have said. I am constantly scanning the hill paying particular attention to low level skiers who can be unpredictable.   I tend to ski faster than most and give a wide berth to slower skiers.  I tend to ski the edges of the slopes, besides having better snow than the center, it is good pracitice for when I am on a trip out west and get to ski narrow chutes.  Plus I avoid total beginner areas like the plague.

Still waiting for my first ski day of the season.  Maybe this weekend.  The local areas are trying to open.

Rick G

We were all beginners at one point. We were all testing the limits of our control at one point. That's always been around. The difference now is that ski resorts just seem to be a lot more crowded as it has become more popular. I don't know the stats but there are probably just as many ski resorts as there were 20 years ago, but a lot more people skiing and riding. I don't think there is any way around it other than to try and ride or ski mid-week.

As for the skiiers vs. snowboards debate. My view is that a beginner skier is more dangerous than a beginner snowboarder, but that all the degenerates who do donuts in a crowded parking lot and who are inconsiderate are snowboarders (although not all snowboarders are degenerates). As a boarder, I must admit that if you see someone who lacks mountain courtesy, it is likely a snowboarder. It's a rep that is well-deserved and unfortunate.

I can totally remember 45 minute lift lines back in the late 70s during Christmas week, resorts have always been totally insane at that time of the year.  I do agree that they are more crowded on many of the other weekend days than they used to be.  Also, with snow making the norm rather than the exception more places are opening with much more limited terrain (i.e.less acreage per rider) earlier in the season than in the ancient past.

I don't think people are in any less control than they have been for the past several decades. Maybe people have a harder time sharing (in this case, terrain) nowadays?  Maybe you're just getting older and other people bother you more?  Regardless, I don't think equipment has much to do with it.  The skiers v. snowboarders debate is lame too.  Youth (and testosterone) plays more of a part than the equipment, and these days "New Schoolers" want skis, not boards.

My strategy is similar to others in skiing the sides and often skiing faster but sometimes I just slow way down to wait for a good opportunity to pass - depends on the situation, terrain and snow conditions.  The difficulty in crowded situations with out of control skiers and snowboarders is that they can be so hard to predict and sometimes there is a chain reaction of several riders that cuts off most anything from above.  Even good skiers and boarders in crowded conditions sometimes swerve sharply when least expected.  My thought is that going into a gaggle of people fast sometimes increases the chance an encounter of the wrong kind unless there is a clear and safe path, despite my ability.   when an opening arises, I can accelerate quickly and pass safely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by canadianskier 

My strategy is similar to others in skiing the sides and often skiing faster but sometimes I just slow way down to wait for a good opportunity to pass - depends on the situation, terrain and snow conditions.  The difficulty in crowded situations with out of control skiers and snowboarders is that they can be so hard to predict and sometimes there is a chain reaction of several riders that cuts off most anything from above.  Even good skiers and boarders in crowded conditions sometimes swerve sharply when least expected.  My thought is that going into a gaggle of people fast sometimes increases the chance an encounter of the wrong kind unless there is a clear and safe path, despite my ability.   when an opening arises, I can accelerate quickly and pass safely.

Matching speeds with someone ahead of you is more safe than ripping past them, but sometimes you're the rippee.  I'm annoyed by fast skiers/riders when they don't give little kids a wide berth.

Best to keep one's head on a swivel.

You guys are ridiculous.  Go ski where there are no people.  Once I'm off the lift, I don't see anyone til i'm down the mountain and back at another lift, and that's usually at Vail.  And a high speed tail slide? sliding your tails is not how you pick up speed.  anyways, not the point.  Get good enough to go where other people don't go, and enjoy the rest of your life.

The two biggest newer risks are snowboarders with their "blind sides", less predictable turn patterns, and total idiotic choices as to where to sit down and chat in the middle of a run, e.g. right below a rise where they fell trying to make a jump that blocks an uphill skier's/boarder's sight line to them; the second risk is associated with the increased popularity of tree skiing and the failure of so many skiers and boarders to exercise good sense in exiting the trees onto a trail - namely look  and make sure there is a space for you to merge into the oncoming traffic. The skier in the woods is invisible to the skier on the trails and should yield.

These of course add to the old familiar risks of eastern skiing: straightline skiers who have not mastered turning, stopping, or slowing down but are unfortunately cursed with a good sense of balance; the wide range of ice skiing/falling/loose equipment  that you can find on a narrow trail; and the total unpredictability you find with masses of people. In fact standing near the base of a green trail can be quite a dangerous spot.