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Going big???

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Hi,

 

  so I have always wondered how the people who go really fast and throw huge 360's off of natural jumps that I barely air off of get that good? When I do jumps it looks really sloppy and not that good. When I see those kind of people do the same jump, it's faster higher and always either a spin or a grab. I would like to be able to do that someday and was wondering if they just keep hitting jumps and drops only slightely out of their comfort zone and a lot of them or just huck big stuff when the snow is soft until they land it and go from there?

post #2 of 29

Go big or go home. Huck your biggest stuff when the snow is soft. Don't expect to come away undamaged. And the biggest reason you probably don't go big is because you don't carry enough speed into it. So you case the jump, and land on the tabletop instead of on the transition. That bone jarring jolt you get when you land doesn't feel good, and your brain tells you that if you go bigger and faster, the shock of landing is going to be bigger. Nothing is further from the truth. If you go faster and go bigger, you'll clear the tabletop and land on the transition, which is angled to transfer your energy gradually back onto the snow, making for a soft, smooth landing. Also, when you launch off the lip, you need to practically throw yourself forward off of the lip. Otherwise, the ramp angle will throw your balance backwards, making for an out of control feeling in the air, and most likely eating it on the landing.

 

Long story short, go big or go home. That's how you take air.

post #3 of 29

go big or go home is pretty much what skiing is for a lot of people. i hit 3 trees in the last few days at breck trying to push myself to be better. yea it hurt but i progressed so much over the little bit of time so its totally worth it.

post #4 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post

Hi,

 

  so I have always wondered how the people who go really fast and throw huge 360's off of natural jumps that I barely air off of get that good? When I do jumps it looks really sloppy and not that good. When I see those kind of people do the same jump, it's faster higher and always either a spin or a grab. I would like to be able to do that someday and was wondering if they just keep hitting jumps and drops only slightely out of their comfort zone and a lot of them or just huck big stuff when the snow is soft until they land it and go from there?


Go to the beginners park where they have small jumps with formed landings. Being in the air is unnatural and takes some getting sued to. As long as you carry enough speed to clear the table tops (if it has one) the formed landings make it relatively painless to fall as long as you don't land on your head or back. Once that happens you can try a grab or something small like a Daffey (sp?). Then move on to tha natural stuff but being comfortable  in the air is important to letting yourself go bigger because you won't flail and throw yourself out of whack   

 

post #5 of 29

Get an instructor or a coach!

 

Good instruction is way cheaper than even a one time visit to a doc-in-the-box. Casing the tabletop may jar a bit but overjumping the feature and landing in the flats hurts more. An experienced coach can judge the conditions and the jump and send you off at the right place for the right speed. There is technique involved in throwing tricks - these skills can be taught. And those jumps in the closed off areas of the freestyle course really do make some radical tricks easy - if you have learned how to handle them.

 

The best skiers have lots of experience building good fundamentals, learning techniques and developing judgement and feel. Good coaches keep it fun and safe while aquiring those skills. Be patient and smart and ski with people who will lead you.

 

Lonewolf's advise of staying in controlled situations is reasonable if you must learn on your own.  Maybe you will reinvent the wheel but there are a lot of books and videos to coach you even if your mountain (or budget) doesn't work for a coach.

 

Skiing within your limits is OK. You will be enjoying the snow a lot longer that way.

 

Eric

post #6 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

Get an instructor or a coach!

 

Good instruction is way cheaper than even a one time visit to a doc-in-the-box. Casing the tabletop may jar a bit but overjumping the feature and landing in the flats hurts more. An experienced coach can judge the conditions and the jump and send you off at the right place for the right speed. There is technique involved in throwing tricks - these skills can be taught. And those jumps in the closed off areas of the freestyle course really do make some radical tricks easy - if you have learned how to handle them.

 

The best skiers have lots of experience building good fundamentals, learning techniques and developing judgement and feel. Good coaches keep it fun and safe while aquiring those skills. Be patient and smart and ski with people who will lead you.

 

Lonewolf's advise of staying in controlled situations is reasonable if you must learn on your own.  Maybe you will reinvent the wheel but there are a lot of books and videos to coach you even if your mountain (or budget) doesn't work for a coach.

 

Skiing within your limits is OK. You will be enjoying the snow a lot longer that way.

 

Eric



I have to disagree with you slightly. There is nothing a coach can teach you to make you more comfortable in the air. Can they teach you and help u learn new maneuvers sure but they can't get you to shake that fundamental mental block of feeling unnatural in air. If as soon as you go off a jump you freak out and start flailing a coach can't fix that then to otherwise tell you to relax and try again. 

post #7 of 29

It sounds like the OP is talking about natural features, not terrain parks. Slightly different set of skills, since you don't have to carry speed to hit the landing specifically at the transition. IMO the trick is to maintain form going off the feature. Don't lean back...keep an athletic stance. Your COM should lead you down the feature. The angle of your skis should match the landing. When you land, be solid and don't sit on your tails. When people land in the back seat and low speeds, they tend to rebound forward and faceplant. 

post #8 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post

It sounds like the OP is talking about natural features, not terrain parks. Slightly different set of skills, since you don't have to carry speed to hit the landing specifically at the transition. IMO the trick is to maintain form going off the feature. Don't lead back...keep an athletic stance. Your COM should lead you down the feature. The angle of your skis should match the landing. When you land, be solid and don't sit on your tails. When people land in the back seat and low speeds, they tend to rebound forward and faceplant. 


This is true we were suggesting he go to the park first to learn some basic control in the air. However, if the OP has no desire to do such then the one piece of advise I would give is keep your hands up and forward. If you do this properly you should be able to look at them the whole time and you will instinctively keep your weight forward. This really only works for rollers and cliffs. Those jumps on the side of runs are a completely different thing mostly because a lot of them launch you with a really poor body orientation and have very flat landings 

 

post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post


This is true we were suggesting he go to the park first to learn some basic control in the air. However, if the OP has no desire to do such then the one piece of advise I would give is keep your hands up and forward. If you do this properly you should be able to look at them the whole time and you will instinctively keep your weight forward. This really only works for rollers and cliffs. Those jumps on the side of runs are a completely different thing mostly because a lot of them launch you with a really poor body orientation and have very flat landings 

 


 

Very true. Hands up is a great mental cue for maintaining a solid stance, and a good habit to have for any terrain. There is something calming and confidence-inspiring about it, too. It feels like you're in a state of readiness.

 

But, for me personally anyway, I don't think terrain park features would cross over to natural drops well, simply because on a TP feature, you begin the air tilting up. Allowing yourself to descend off of something smoothly is rather different. You start facing down, which can feel a bit odd at first. I recommend finding a steep dropoff (like off of a catwalk onto a steeper run, or a small cornice), and practice keeping the hands up, and staying forward and over your skis as you tip down the feature. 

 

But, I think TP jumps would be a good opportunity to practice maintaining a forward stance and forward arms in the air. 


Edited by LiveJazz - 12/12/11 at 8:19am
post #10 of 29

If you are flailing in the air, your fundamentals are deficient. Once you are airborne, there is little you can do except ride the path your takeoff set you up with. A good coach should be able to identify the sources of your problems and correct that.

 

A skilled instructor will build a solid skills foundation upon which you can push your limits safely. Simply going as fast as you can with your hands forward is not enough to insure good technique. Get some real coaching!

 

Coaching does not need to be strictly from structured resort based ski schools. Tag along with the best skiers on the hill. Follow their lines as much as you can. Ask for pointers. Watch their techniques. Buy them a round at the end of the day and you will be tolerated.

 

But if you join a race, freestyle or big mountain team, you will get proven coaching that will safely develop the skills and judgement you need.

 

Eric

post #11 of 29

It's all about the POP!

 

Keeping it on the ground will likely extend your skiing lifespan?

 

Baring that, go to one of the camps at Whistler or Mt. Hood and learn properly from a pro.

post #12 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by eleeski View Post

 

Coaching does not need to be strictly from structured resort based ski schools. Tag along with the best skiers on the hill. Follow their lines as much as you can. Ask for pointers. Watch their techniques. Buy them a round at the end of the day and you will be tolerated.

 

 

 

I agree with this. That being said though I have seen plenty of skiers who have had adequate technique at take off, freak out and crash because of it where if they had simply held position they would have been fine.
 

 

post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveJazz View Post


 

But, for me personally anyway, I don't think terrain park features would cross over to natural drops well, simply because on a TP feature, you begin the air tilting up. Allowing yourself to descend off of something smoothly is rather different. You start facing down, which can feel a bit odd at first. I recommend finding a steep dropoff (like off of a catwalk onto a steeper run, or a small cornice), and practice keeping the hands up, and staying forward and over your skis as you tip down the feature. 

 

 

Another thing that doesn't get mentioned for this is that you need some speed when dropping off a cornice or something similar. Standing at the edge and then poling makes it almost impossible to remain forward as your feet automatically come forward first
 

 

post #14 of 29

OP, you are in Utah, right?  Got to the Olympic Park  in Park City next summer & hit the water ramp.  You will learn a lot about airtime & aerials without ending up in the hospital.  Once you have the air awareness you can take it to the snow.  For now, start small & work your way up slowly.

JF

post #15 of 29

Tramps and diving boards are recommended for the first attempts at big air and big tricks.  If you can find one of these somewhere this is the best training I ever got.

 

10baa56c_WaterRamp1981.jpg

post #16 of 29
Thread Starter 

Ok guys, I am not just learning to pop and get a little bit of air like going and jumping off of a cat track. I ski Alta and they don't have a park so all I know is from natural stuff basically.

 

I find that my problem is when I go off jumps, I go like a twig with my arms up and skis apart. Should I just keep hitting jumps until I feel comfortable to like tweak my skis and that kind of thing? Next time it snows I am going to try 360's and throwing bigger airs than normal so it's not as bad to crash.

post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 
post #18 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post

Like this:

 

At Alta: http://www.newschoolers.com/watch/377416.0/Alta-Boys-Season-Edit?t=6


Outstanding!

 

 

post #19 of 29
Thread Starter 

I didn't mean like it as in appreciate it but to show what i am talking about ahaha

post #20 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post

I didn't mean like it as in appreciate it but to show what i am talking about ahaha


Yeah, I get that.  I think you just need to go hang out with those guys, peer pressure can work wonders & the trial & error technique has its merits...  Hell, that's how I learned sh!t when I was that age.  Just don't land on an unseen rock, wait for the deep snow & have a spotter/rescuer handy.

 

Have fun,

JF

 

 

 

post #21 of 29

"You gotta throw the air, don't let the air throw you"

post #22 of 29

You have to pop to gain control of the air and be in a negotiating position to land solid.  Ever been jumping fairly high in a tramp and tried to suck up the bounce instead of pushing/popping?  It usually doesn't work out to well.

post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 

Ok quick question when I first try a 360 will I be able to 360 with decent odds of landing it each time after about 10 trys? and then how long will it take me to be able to 3 without it looking really dorky and out of control

 

 

Also,

 

How do I get better at riding switch. I can 180 fine I just get second thoughts creeping into my head on the jumps that are a little more high speed and like change my mind right on the face because I get wigged out of landing backwards at speed. When I do do the 180, I can't ride it out switch, especially when the landing isn't exactly smooth like a groomer. I might be trying to spin back around straight to fast right after I land but I land going kinda fast and panic usually. I know you only usually see people do 180's on landings that are basically up hill so they don't go too fast but in an ideal world, I want to get really good switch, will that just come with lots of practice??

 

Oh and I will prob be skiing the next 13 days

 

Thanks

post #24 of 29
Thread Starter 

bump

post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post



I have to disagree with you slightly. There is nothing a coach can teach you to make you more comfortable in the air. Can they teach you and help u learn new maneuvers sure but they can't get you to shake that fundamental mental block of feeling unnatural in air. If as soon as you go off a jump you freak out and start flailing a coach can't fix that then to otherwise tell you to relax and try again. 


That is part of their job, lw. I have racers that want to race DH, but get the jitters when they get near the gate. Losing that fear is often a matter of understanding consequences and learning what alternatives to those consequences exist. In DH, it involves conciously knowing what is the safest thing to do in the event of losing control sometimes it is laying down and sliding others it may be to just straightline until you can safely stop. Always have an exit strategy.
 

 

post #26 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeski919 View Post

Go big or go home. Huck your biggest stuff when the snow is soft. Don't expect to come away undamaged. And the biggest reason you probably don't go big is because you don't carry enough speed into it. So you case the jump, and land on the tabletop instead of on the transition. That bone jarring jolt you get when you land doesn't feel good, and your brain tells you that if you go bigger and faster, the shock of landing is going to be bigger. Nothing is further from the truth. If you go faster and go bigger, you'll clear the tabletop and land on the transition, which is angled to transfer your energy gradually back onto the snow, making for a soft, smooth landing. Also, when you launch off the lip, you need to practically throw yourself forward off of the lip. Otherwise, the ramp angle will throw your balance backwards, making for an out of control feeling in the air, and most likely eating it on the landing.

 

Long story short, go big or go home. That's how you take air.



Oh I forgot to mention, I ski Alta=no park.

 

post #27 of 29
Thread Starter 

My problem is whenever I come up to a jump and huck it, I can never stay in form and centered in balance, then I see someone do the same jump with the same amount of speed and they make it look easy and do a cool grab or something. Am I just coming into the jump knowing I will go flying and then I don't pop because I swear I try to always pop off the lip, maybe not.

 

And how long will it take for me to be able to 360 without it looking really dumb and like it is my first time?

 

 

Thanks for the replies

post #28 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by drainbamage View Post

My problem is whenever I come up to a jump and huck it, I can never stay in form and centered in balance

Thanks for the replies



Keeping your hands forward will greatly help with that. Don't throw them behind or up in the air

post #29 of 29
Thread Starter 

The thing is some days I feel like I am skiing very well and I feel like I am progressing and doing bigger things than normal and some days like today I just am not having a whole lot of fun and afraid to do stuff and then see some chick break her arm off of a jump and just feel like I have gotten worse. 

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