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GS skis worth it for NASTAR/Beer League - Page 3

post #61 of 84

This past weekend I did the pacesetting on the Volkl RaceTiger Speedwall GS - 175 cm/ 17.5 m radius.

 

I set varying courses from fairly straight to very turny and the boards performed well.  Can't think of any negatives.  I still have to try the Elan GSX and the Rossi 9GS  but at this point my favorite is next year's Atomic D2 Redster.

 

Unrelated:  I've been searching for four years for a boot that I can use for both ski and snowboard racing.  At the NASTAR Nationals each year I have to be in two places at once.  The boot change makes me even later getting to the start.  This weekend I experimented with the Dalbello Krypton Cross ID boot.  It worked fine on skis and by loosening the top  buckle and power strap I was able to get low enough to feel comfortable racing on my board (Sigi Grabner GS board 178 cm).

post #62 of 84

I need a new pair of cheater GS boards.  Does anyone have any experience with either the Doberman GS Pro or the Rossi 9GS Oversize? 

post #63 of 84

Just got on the Rossi 9GS cascade Ti in 174 and man that thing rips. Nice smooth turns with a ton of edge grip and not nearly as demanding as my old WC GS Rossi 181 was. Fun ski but I have not tried it in the course yet. I also would like to try the WC GS Masters to have some thing to compare it against.

                                             2cents.gif

post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



So, the fastest guy was on cheaters.  All other results inconclusive.  That really does leave the answer to the mysterious "SL VS GS ski for NASTAR" question completely null! 


Reviving this thread.  I'm in the minority of those who think slalom skis have a place in recreational GS racing for certain racers in certain conditions.   Clearly, the top racers are better served on longer radius boards but there is a significant population of NASTAR type racers who would be better served on tighter radius skis on courses that are steeper, turnier, and icier than they are used to.  When I won my age group at the Nationals in Steamboat in '08 I was the only one on slaloms.

 

In the ensuing years I've been on Progressor 9s and have had pretty good luck.  They have a fairly tight radius in the front but 17 meters in the tail.  This year, our Monday Night beer league has been held in challenging conditions.  All manmade snow and serious ruts.  The course setters have been setting some serious crankers.  My closest competitor and I have always been closely matched. Nationally in NASTAR Platinum in our age group he's ranked #15 and I'm ranked #10 (and #1 in snowboarding).   In an eight race series one of us will inevitably win five and the other three.  We're actually eight hours apart in age.  The first three races of this season he edged me by a few hundredths.  The last two races I switched back to slalom skis and took the win by a few tenths.  Last Monday I had the fastest second run of 85 racers on our course.

 

On these kinds of courses it's very difficult not to be late at a gate.  With a slalom ski I find I can hold the line better.  When I get to the Nationals in late March I'll be back on the Progressors but for the time being the slaloms are filling the bill.

 

post #65 of 84


That all makes sense to me.  To look at it from a similar perspective, for Masters Super G, I either use a 201 Super G for turny courses or a 205 Super G for flatter, straighter courses.  For Masters DH, the only place I race is at Ski Cooper, where the speeds are *relatively* low, so I've chosen a 210 Super G for that hill.  If I went to Aspen, which is much tougher, steeper, and faster, I'd be using a 215 or 217...

 

biggrin.gif


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by patmoore View Post


Reviving this thread.  I'm in the minority of those who think slalom skis have a place in recreational GS racing for certain racers in certain conditions.   Clearly, the top racers are better served on longer radius boards but there is a significant population of NASTAR type racers who would be better served on tighter radius skis on courses that are steeper, turnier, and icier than they are used to.  When I won my age group at the Nationals in Steamboat in '08 I was the only one on slaloms.

 

In the ensuing years I've been on Progressor 9s and have had pretty good luck.  They have a fairly tight radius in the front but 17 meters in the tail.  This year, our Monday Night beer league has been held in challenging conditions.  All manmade snow and serious ruts.  The course setters have been setting some serious crankers.  My closest competitor and I have always been closely matched. Nationally in NASTAR Platinum in our age group he's ranked #15 and I'm ranked #10 (and #1 in snowboarding).   In an eight race series one of us will inevitably win five and the other three.  We're actually eight hours apart in age.  The first three races of this season he edged me by a few hundredths.  The last two races I switched back to slalom skis and took the win by a few tenths.  Last Monday I had the fastest second run of 85 racers on our course.

 

On these kinds of courses it's very difficult not to be late at a gate.  With a slalom ski I find I can hold the line better.  When I get to the Nationals in late March I'll be back on the Progressors but for the time being the slaloms are filling the bill.

 



 

post #66 of 84

Hey Pat,  any final update after the Nationals?  The winter that never was... definitely!

post #67 of 84

Hi Clark,

 

This was my eighth trip to the big dance and the best ever.  The 2012 NASTAR Nationals at Winter Park saw less snow than last year but still a lot more than we experienced in the East.  When I discovered that my division would be racing on the more sedate Upper Cranmer than Lower Hughes or Hughes Meadows I opted not to take my Progressors.  I contacted Atomic Rep John Esterbrook and borrowed his personal pair of next year's Atomic D2 GS cheater ski called the REDSTER.   See John in the video below with the same pair of skis.  They're 174 with a 17.5m radius.  When I got to the course for inspection I was dismayed to discover that the vertical offset was so tight that it could be confused with a slalom course.   Rob Dexter had a pair of slalom skis with him and used them to win his age group in the Platinum Division.  Since I was traveling with my snowboard (Sigi Grabner 178cm GS board) I didn't have a second pair of skis.  I have to tell you that the Atomics performed flawlessly.  I had to really arc and carve them and they responded.  I even managed to pull a 12 handicap off AJ Kitt on Friday.  For the competition I averaged 13.995.  Ironically my pacesetting HC in suits is 13.99.  I wound up in 2nd place in Platinum losing by 1.9% HC to a 12 time national champion.   In snowboarding I was unopposed and captured my seventh national title.

 

Atomic D2 GS Redstersnowboard

 

post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2time View Post

Just got on the Rossi 9GS cascade Ti in 174 and man that thing rips. Nice smooth turns with a ton of edge grip and not nearly as demanding as my old WC GS Rossi 181 was. Fun ski but I have not tried it in the course yet. I also would like to try the WC GS Masters to have some thing to compare it against.
                                             58x46px-LL-cf13a8f9_2cents.gif

Just curious on how the 9gs casade Ti's performed? I freeskied on a pair earlier this year but the tune was so bad they wouldn't hold an edge in the racecourse.
post #69 of 84

Hi Pat,

 

Thanks for the report and congrats on your finish.  I know how even thinking you've been caught with the wrong pair of skis can hurt.  At our EICSL championship our course ended up being much tighter than I originally thought it would be an at the very last second I switched down from a pair of 170 Atomic GS9's to my Rossy Slalom's.  I ended up third for the day, but still won the class for the season.  I'm seeing a lot of our "Open Class" (Below 10 handicap) running on longer skis again, as long as 184's and our courses are usually a little tougher and steeper than an extended NASTAR.  When I was racing at Wawa I was using the GS9's all the time and they consistently ran faster than the 9S's with the same wax.  I was thinking in terms of moving a little longer, but nothing crazy so the Atomic sounds interesting.

 

Thanks again!

 

Clark

 

www.eicsl.org

post #70 of 84

Also see what I said in this thread...

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/111959/back-to-basics

post #71 of 84

GS skis are always faster. G4
 

post #72 of 84
Thread Starter 

I thought I'd report back after a year or so...

 

I skied a NASTAR race this past week.  Actually, I skied a couple of different days.  Same pace setter.  The first day I stuck with the skis I had on which are Blizzard Mag SLs...165.  It was the first day of the season and my third run and I was late in every gate but still managed a single digit handicap. 

 

Second day out I skied three runs on my GS skis...women's 177 25m...Blizzard WC GS...my runs on a not too tight course were within three tenths of each other...for my last run I put on my slalom skis and beat my fastest GS time by .6 on a 19 second course.

 

I really think the difference is the speed you generate in the first two or three gates with slalom skis vs. GS skis.  Also, in the first several turns with low speed, I can work the slalom skis and generate speed.

 

Another observation I made last season was what happened over two different beer leagues.  League one is on a steeper hill with a very flat bottom...I use SL skis...I never lost to a guy who beats me about 60% of the time in another league.  The difference is that in the other league, I use my GS skis. 

 

This year I am sticking to my sl boards.  The downside is that when I hit a particular speed with them, they fishtail...I bent my Dobermanns this way two years ago.

 

One thing that I think will help is that my Blizzards are actually stiffer and have a slightly longer radius than most SL boards.

post #73 of 84

Update:  Nearly two years have elapsed since my earlier post on the Redsters. At the beginning of this season I bought a pair of 2014 Redsters in 174 length and have had three occasions to race on them.

Note: I'm an arthritic 67 year old. 
 

  • I took 2nd of 12 in my age group at a Masters GS (and 31st overall of 127).
  • Earned an 11 HC on a NASTAR run.
  • Was the 5th fastest overall  of 200 racers at a Mt. Dew Vertical Challenge.


I'm skiing well and I'm healthy but I have to give credit to the skis for giving me the extra edge. Confidence is an intangible but that's how I feel when I enter a turn. I'm intentionally taking a tighter line with the confidence that the skis will respond. It's a nice feeling!

post #74 of 84

Thumbs Up

post #75 of 84
Thread Starter 

Pat:  What Atomics are you skiing?  I get confused looking at the website...I want a GS cheater but I want a real race ski as well.  I'm in the high single digits as far as handicap, 225 and 5'10" but in good shape.  Thanks.

post #76 of 84

The Redster D2 in a 174 length.  Radius is 17.8m.  Here's a link to the ski.  Use the drop down to select the size.  All sizes are in stock.

 

Where in Michigan do you race?  I know a few folks there racing on the same ski.

post #77 of 84
Thread Starter 

Pat:  I race at Schuss for everyday NASTAR, a beer league at Crystal and another beer league at a local hill about a block from my house...Mt. Holiday.

 

I was a good high school racer and really started to get back into racing once the kids got old enough to ski with me.  Schuss is set tight which suits me well...I'm and always have been a better Slalom skier.  My handicaps there are inflated because of it...  Crystal is fairly competitive and I have finished as high as 2nd but usually a top ten finish is a good night.  Lots of good racers there.  My favorite is the local race at Mt. Holiday.  The rule is no speed suits and you can't take off your coat.  There are two guys who race there that are extremely fast.  One beat Kitt in the pace setting a couple of years ago and the other beats him...in a 19 second slalom he beats everyone by almost two seconds...both ski on stuff older than my kids or all mountain equipment...probably the best racers in town if not the state...I don't think they race anywhere else.  One of the gals is incredibly fast as well...fun to watch.

 

I'm trying to decide between the Atomic you suggested, a Head iSpeed and a Nordica EVO or something like that...basically all beer league skis.  I want to go with a 180 but keep second guessing myself thinking I should go shorter.  Especially for beer league.  It seems like a 180 will just put me closer to where I am now with a 177 25m Blizzard GS...which is a pain in the ass to turn.

 

One last comment...a while ago, several of us after a race night and several beers at the local resort decided to start a project to build a tow rope for the race team that practices there...I know ropes suck, but lots of runs in an hour compared to a chair...that was two years ago, and now it is built and ready to go...$30,000 and a lot of labor.  The moral of the story is that I see a lot of passion on boards like this...take it and do something with it.

post #78 of 84
Are you building a rope at Holiday?
post #79 of 84
Thread Starter 

The rope tow is complete.  I believe we are scheduled to have an opening 'ceremony' soon.  The rope tow will be available for everyone, but the main reason was to alleviate some of the lift line delay at the chair, especially when the youth race team is on the hill.  Obviously, racers will get about 4X to 5X as many runs as compared to the chair.

 

As you may know, Mt. Holiday is a non-profit funded by the community...no tax dollars.  It takes the community to step up to make things like this happen.

post #80 of 84
So where did you put the rope tow? I'm guessing in a place where there used to be one. smile.gif

(Haven't been there for decades, but spent much much time there as a kid... Enough to remember the Sutton's St. Bernard's name and getting myself regularly launched very high into the air by the big kids behind me on the rope that was on the skiers left of what was 'ridge run'.... And the T-bars of course! smile.gif )
post #81 of 84
Thread Starter 

Left side looking up Upper  Holiday...I grew up at Hickory, but I believe it is where the  T bar was.

post #82 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by hexagenia View Post

Left side looking up Upper  Holiday...I grew up at Hickory, but I believe it is where the  T bar was.

Nice! There used to be a rope just to the left of the t-bar on the other side of the old snow making lines. The tow will be great for you guys! To everyone else, apologies for the thread drift. Nostalgia is powerful stuff.

(Skied Hickory a ton as well!)
post #83 of 84

Update:  I used the Redsters to paceset the Okemo NASTAR course this past Sunday.  Normally I use an old pair of Atomic GS11ms.  I set two courses:  one with ski gates and one with stubbies for snowboarders (although skiers like it too).

 

105 runs were recorded on the ski course (Yellow) with no one matching my pacesetting time. This Medicare Generation guy is loving those Redsters!

post #84 of 84

Yes to speed suit.  (wear a cup very 80s Glam band) ...You can never have too many skis. 

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