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Carrying a gun? - Page 15

post #421 of 680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Beacon's don't accidentally kill people.  But, I would certainly take a beacon out of fear. I also set my din below 12 out of fear.  Justified fear?th_dunno-1%5B1%5D.gif


Except if there is an avalanche and someone leaves theirs on transmit...
 

post #422 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post


Except if there is an avalanche and someone leaves theirs on transmit...
 



Yeah, but in the context of this, it would be the beacon's evil spirit that causes it to switch over to transmit.

post #423 of 680

I guess I see handguns in public much the way many see smoking in public.  It isn't necessary.  It doesn't really do anybody any good, but smokers insist it makes them feel better (why people carry-because they can and it makes them feel safer for whatever reason and believe that it deters crime). I see that as a insecurity/weakness/unnecessary addiction.  But, it can lead to unintentional adverse consequences for bystanders. Smoke ends up in places that the original owner didn't intend it to and causes harm.  The same thing happens to guns, 99% of the illegal handguns on the streets once belonged so someone legally.  If nobody seemingly stable ever unexpectedly flaked out and nobody's guns ever got stolen by buglers it wouldn't bother me at all that people carried in public places.

post #424 of 680

More on smoking/handguns analogy.  Think of all the people that get killed and forests destroyed in smoking related fires. Those smokers never intended for their butt or ashes to cause such calamity. 
Does banning cigarettes go to far in solving these problems by infringing on the rights of the more responsible smokers?  Same argument from self professed responsible handgun owners.  Similar trade off in my opinion.  And to those that will say a cigarette never saved anyone's life... I guess you've never done jail time hahaha.  Seriously though, I used to give cigarettes to street thugs and beggars that approached me instead of money.  It was always a great ice breaker and they always quit hassling me going away happy.

 

I don't smoke anymore, but would argue that people ought to be able to smoke in the same places where people are allowed to carry handguns due to the same principles of balancing personal freedom against potential for harm.


Edited by crgildart - 1/23/12 at 6:22am
post #425 of 680

CR - I've got a couple questions for you if you don't mind:

 

How deep are you going to dig your hole? While the arguements against your delusional world view are based in logic and facts and common sense, your arguements are basically "you're a coward" and "I have a completely irrational fear of guns". You've been making a complete fool of yourself for way more than a few pages now.

 

Do you ski? I mean - I know it's a pretty shitty winter almost everywhere in the lower 48, but you've been posting (on this thread at least)  every other hour for like the past month.Try getting in  few turns - maybe it will calm you down and get your mind off of all the evil guns that are out to get you.

 

Do you really think that somebody is going to happen upon this thread, read your opinion that anybody who carries a gun is a coward and then stop carrying a gun? I can see that thought process: "Huh. Some neurotic irrational sheep who lives in a crime-ridden shithole is of the opinion that unless I behave exactly as he does then I'm a coward. Let me think about this - I could either continue to rely on myself for the safety of me and my family or I could turn my icky gun into the nearest police station and inpress the hell out of some fear-gripped annonymous fool on the internet. Well, I guess that settles that!".

 

...and I guess I can add narcissism to your growing list of crippling neurosis. Nobody cares, cr.

 

Go skiing or keep digging.We all know the road you'll take.

post #426 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

The same thing happens to guns, 99% of the illegal handguns on the streets once belonged so someone legally.



Please share the source of this data

post #427 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock108 View Post



Please share the source of this data



99% of all guns come from a gun manufacturer.  Corporations are people right?  That means they were once owned legally.  Beyond that show me one gun other than some crazy McGyver thing that was never legally owned by a citizen, corporation,  or some dejure government before falling in to adverse possession?

popcorn.gif

 

Most of these are stolen in burglaries and out of peoples' cars.  Even police cars are getting broken in to around here for the guns..

post #428 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



99% of all guns come from a gun manufacturer.  Corporations are people right?  That means they were once owned legally.  Beyond that show me one gun other than some crazy McGyver thing that was never legally owned by a citizen, corporation,  or some dejure government before falling in to adverse possession?

popcorn.gif

 

Most of these are stolen in burglaries and out of peoples' cars.  Even police cars are getting broken in to around here for the guns..


Shocking that the source turns out to be your own pie-hole.  words.gif

 

post #429 of 680


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post

CR - I've got a couple questions for you if you don't mind:

 

How deep are you going to dig your hole? While the arguements against your delusional world view are based in logic and facts and common sense, your arguements are basically "you're a coward" and "I have a completely irrational fear of guns". You've been making a complete fool of yourself for way more than a few pages now.

 

Do you ski? I mean - I know it's a pretty shitty winter almost everywhere in the lower 48, but you've been posting (on this thread at least)  every other hour for like the past month.Try getting in  few turns - maybe it will calm you down and get your mind off of all the evil guns that are out to get you.

 

Do you really think that somebody is going to happen upon this thread, read your opinion that anybody who carries a gun is a coward and then stop carrying a gun? I can see that thought process: "Huh. Some neurotic irrational sheep who lives in a crime-ridden shithole is of the opinion that unless I behave exactly as he does then I'm a coward. Let me think about this - I could either continue to rely on myself for the safety of me and my family or I could turn my icky gun into the nearest police station and inpress the hell out of some fear-gripped annonymous fool on the internet. Well, I guess that settles that!".

 

...and I guess I can add narcissism to your growing list of crippling neurosis. Nobody cares, cr.

 

Go skiing or keep digging.We all know the road you'll take.


Touche'!  Gosh the truth hurts.   Me saying it is silly to carry a handgun downtown and pointing out that most people do it out of fear and insecurity is similar to people poking fun at folks that carry a backpack full of unnecessary gear and ski on A/T sticks inbounds.  We have every legal right to do these things.  And we have the legal right to comment on things others do that seem silly to ourselves.  However, it is uncool to do it when the behavior has no adverse consequences and doesn't affect us, unlike smoking.  And we just disagree (or don't care?) on whether or not millions of citizens buying and carrying handguns has similar adverse unintentional and unanticipated ill affects on others apparantly.

 

Oh, by way I do concede that my stats on home burglaries is off.  More guns hit the streets as a result of straw purchases and other fraudulent purchases from licensed dealers and manufacturers than are actually stolen out of homes.  I still stand by the statement that 99% of all handguns come from legitimate sources before ending up transferred to illegitimate ones. Fraud is merely cleverly disguised theft.wink.gif

 

 

 

post #430 of 680

Actually, a generally quoted figure is 10-15% of guns used in crimes being stolen from lawful owners, with the rest being acquired in other ways.  In short, take away all the lawful owners, and the supply to criminals does not dry up. 

 

For a bc ski forum, some of this is tangential for the moment  -- though we've just seen one forum member decide to carry while skiing -- but it will get less tangential in the future the the anti-gun crowd turns its attention to knives.  That is an express part of their long-term strategy, has been implemented nationally in Britain (but, predictably, implementation did not lower crime) and is being implemented aggressively in a number of private "spaces" such as colleges in the U.S. already.  Basically, as far-fetched as it seems to look at something that you buy in REI legally today -- say, a rescue knife -- getting you jammed up legally tomorrow, the broader social movement of which gun control is a part will try to make that happen. 

post #431 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

Actually, a generally quoted figure is 10-15% of guns used in crimes being stolen from lawful owners, with the rest being acquired in other ways.  In short, take away all the lawful owners, and the supply to criminals does not dry up. 

 

 



Or include dealers and manufacturers in the "lawful owner" category. After all they are lawful owners aren't they?rolleyes.gif  Do that and all of them come from "lawful owners".  I would agree that more (lots more) needs to be done to prevent illegal purchases from these "lawful owners".  But, as long as gun lobby folks are getting paid "freedom" to remain somewhat in the "shadows" while purchasing guns will prevail.  I bought another long gun less than a month ago.  It seems odd that criminals and felons can so easily get others to purchase them or sell them.  Funny anicdote, buying Claritin D is now remarkably similar to buying a gun.

 

And as for skiing.  I've only been three times so far this season.  What could be more fun on a rainy day than heckling the gun club?duck.gif


Edited by crgildart - 1/23/12 at 8:52am
post #432 of 680

Speaking if knives, what will handgun carriers do if the government finally does ban carrying in public?  It won't happen in the foreseeable future, no Obama isn't capable of doing this in the foreseeable future.

 

A) carry them anyway?

B) carry a Crock Dundee knife?

C) carry something else like pepper spray

D all of the above?

post #433 of 680
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Speaking if knives, what will handgun carriers do if the government finally does ban carrying in public?  It won't happen in the foreseeable future, no Obama isn't capable of doing this in the foreseeable future.

 

A) carry them anyway?

B) carry a Crock Dundee knife?

C) carry something else like pepper spray

D all of the above?


Except pepper spray is usually banned along with fire arms and many people I know that carry guns also already carry knives.

 

So if your definition of "legal owner" is anyone/any entity that originally owned them does that mean we shouldn't allow militaries to own weapons? That's were most terrorists get their wepons and the police have never been known to sell things to criminals rolleyes.gif
 

Back on topic: I never go into the woods without carrying a knife more specifically a multi tool

post #434 of 680


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post


Except pepper spray is usually banned along with fire arms and many people I know that carry guns also already carry knives.

 

So if your definition of "legal owner" is anyone/any entity that originally owned them does that mean we shouldn't allow militaries to own weapons? That's were most terrorists get their wepons and the police have never been known to sell things to criminals rolleyes.gif

 

It isn't weapons that bothers me.  It's weapons designed to be easily concealed. that bothers me.  I'd be OK with just limiting handguns to officers that don't typically tote rifles and and special ops that typically fight in close quarters.  Cops and military can have all the weapons they need.  Just keep handguns to a minimum where possible.
 

Back on topic: I never go into the woods without carrying a knife more specifically a multi tool


Ya, going fishing without a knife and some needle nose pliers can really ruin your day.  Manageable, but annoying.

 

post #435 of 680

Then there is always the argument that getting rid of handguns would just encourage more of this so alas, I am defeated!th_dunno-1[1].gif

Hacksaw-Frame.jpg

post #436 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

  What could be more fun on a rainy day than making a complete fool of myself?duck.gif



Whatever "trips your trigger", so to speak.

 

Maybe you could go for a nice unicorn ride in the rain?

post #437 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jer View Post



Whatever "trips your trigger", so to speak.

 

Maybe you could go for a nice unicorn ride in the rain?



I'm not going to nonono2.gifCandy Mountain without my sidearm..

 

post #438 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post



Even more likely is a pack of your neighbors domestic dogs. When they get home from work and send Rover out to unwind, he hooks up with a few other pooches in the 'hood and goes after the local deer population.....

 

It's very common.

 

 


I've never seen any evidence, tracks noise etc to suggest that. Actually we are mostly surrounded by National Forest so, not many neighbors, not close neighbors anyway. It does happen though, domestic dogs running deer.

 

post #439 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

It does happen though, domestic dogs running deer.

 



......And children and old people. 

 

There's a valid reason to keep protection close at hand.  I've had to pull a bat out to chase off loose pit bulls more than once.  Heck, some "people friendly" dogs scratched the hell out of my car bumper to bumper in about 90 seconds trying to get a stray cat that was cowering under it last week.  There are some truly dangerous and aggressive canines loose out there on any given day.

post #440 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

I'm thinking what if you come back from a day of bc skiing and find that the zombie apocalypse has broken out?  You'd be pretty damn sorry then if you weren't packing.  

Wow,  didn't even realize Epic has had our very own gun thread for a while now! But yeah, if we want to move on to the real deal, suggest the TGR zombie apocalypse thread as a model. Screw this wuss skiing gear stuff. I always pack something light and easy to use with gloves for the lift in case the zombie attendant tries to eat me, something with more penetration for the errant zombie snow boarder...but backcountry, now there I need advice.

 

My point of confusion is whether zombie rabbits are a clear and present danger. See a suspicious number of them OB sometimes. And they may look at me oddly before "appearing" to run. Coincidence? I think not...  

 

 


Edited by beyond - 1/23/12 at 4:11pm
post #441 of 680

wow, 440 posts about guns on a ski forum.  Now that's an American phenomenon!

post #442 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianskier View Post

wow, 440 posts about guns on a ski forum.  Now that's an American phenomenon!

 

Whoever posts #500 gets a free toaster.....
 

 

post #443 of 680

Interestingly or not, in CA there probably are a whole lot of Swiss army knife owners, including hikers and skiers, who risk getting jammed up by CA's existing knife laws.  Basically, if you have a knife that can lock, and potentially be used to stab, you can't carry it concealed. 

 

I'm sure that even in CA the police usually, for now, enforce this with a great bit of discretion, but there is some dark humor in a lot of very liberal, firmly anti-gun Sierra Club hikers potentially running afoul of ANOTHER concealed carry law that's out there. 

 

Regarding dogs running deer, that's one of the big things that can make dogs jerks for bc skiing (or bird hunting).  E-collars can be a blessing :)

post #444 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Speaking if knives, what will handgun carriers do if the government finally does ban carrying in public?  It won't happen in the foreseeable future, no Obama isn't capable of doing this in the foreseeable future.

 

A) carry them anyway?

B) carry a Crock Dundee knife?

C) carry something else like pepper spray

D all of the above?


A)


 

 

post #445 of 680
quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Speaking if knives, what will handgun carriers do if the government finally does ban carrying in public?  It won't happen in the foreseeable future, no Obama isn't capable of doing this in the foreseeable future.

 

A) carry them anyway?

B) carry a Crock Dundee knife?

C) carry something else like pepper spray

D all of the above?


This isn't going to happen in the foreseeable future. Currently the political pressure is to remove what legal obstacles do exist to discourage the carrying of firearms. They have for example made it perfectly legal to carry a loaded weapon in to legislative session.  Here in NH the legislature is working to legalize public concealed permitless carry. Want to carry a loaded gun in the car, in to work, on campus? They're working to legalize this. Although many of these folks characterize themselves as "Libertarians" opposed to government power they are promoting legislation that will take away from schools, businesses, communities, the right to restrict the carrying of loaded weapons. I'm not really sure how to explain all of this. There isn't currently a great deal of violent crime here in mostly rural NH and so the presumed threat that appears to elicit the need for self defense isn't there any more than the threat from wildlife that started this thread. I can only imagine that the fear is real or the imagined threat fervently desired. Apparently there exists some kind of death wish. A lot of people really are looking for the opportunity or pretext to shoot someone or something. A little more of this legislation and encouragement and the obvious seems likely to happen as a consequence.

 

 

post #446 of 680

You can never have enough!

 

post #447 of 680

You can never have enough?....(another stupid clip from those "in the know of life" in Hollywood)......Enough but, in another way!

 

Ever notice how the thought is "one more gun law" will turn the tide in crime? And yet, one after another that is written is passed and the thirst is for yet one more after that one. It's an unquenchable thirst in some. Those people can never have enough control over others lives. Because, I guess the thought is they know better and or need more power over others to hopefully fill the vast void that exists inside themselves.

 

In Obama's next four years in office hopefully they will finally get the psychological fix they need. But somehow I don't think so. It will probably take Clinton's two four year terms after that. By that time. I'm sure there will be yet another "cause" real or imagined to force on others.

post #448 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by skimalibu View Post


In Obama's next four years in office hopefully they will finally get the psychological fix they need. But somehow I don't think so. It will probably take Clinton's two four year terms after that. By that time. I'm sure there will be yet another "cause" real or imagined to force on others.



My bets are that marriage and gays will be much more of a pivotal issue than guns in throughout the next two decades.. speaking of "Those people can never have enough control over others lives'.rolleyes.gif

post #449 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



My bets are that marriage and gays will be much more of a pivotal issue than guns in throughout the next two decades.. speaking of "Those people can never have enough control over others lives'.rolleyes.gif



You sound like you're trying to link people wanting to choose whether to own guns, or not, and cultural issues.  Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of gays who carry.

 

And, more generally, there are people of all cultural and personal identities who, say, in theory could get jammed up in CA, today, for carrying a locking Swiss army knife, or rescue knife, or even a tiny keychain-style knife, in their jacket or pack while hiking or skiing in CA.  It may sound fun to try to limit the rights of some different group, like the perception that guns are only owned by people in rural areas with conservative social values, or "dangerous" knives only owned by gangbangers -- because a yuppie's knife is clearly less dangerous, owing to the owner's yuppie status -- but the reality quickly gets a bit different, and closer to home.   

 

post #450 of 680
Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post



You sound like you're trying to link people wanting to choose whether to own guns, or not, and cultural issues.  Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of gays who carry.

 

 

 



There are pro gun gays in this thread. Good folks, I'd ski with them any day.  I'd trust them around my children.   I still find a lot if irony and hypocrisy within the republican platform of keeping government out of everything EXCEPT people's bedrooms and non Christian places of worship.

 

You forgot to mention the irony of wanting freedom from helmet laws thinking they are silly and not necessary but feeling the need to have lethal protection in public places.  I guess I'm not really that opposed to the law allowing people to carry as I am disagreeing with the notion that there is a need for most people to carry in public that choose to.  Fact is very few good citizens have the actual need to pack a gun, it is mostly the crooks that mostly have armed enemies to watch out for.   Why do so many non criminals that really don't do it anyway?

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