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Carrying a gun? - Page 2

post #31 of 676
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

Wildlife?  Who worries about wildlife?  I'm thinking what if you come back from a day of bc skiing and find that the zombie apocalypse has broken out?  You'd be pretty damn sorry then if you weren't packing.  

 

By the way, does the OP have an airbag pack yet?  


zombies are also excellent reason especially those zombie moose they will get you 

 

No I haven't but I did get some good info from a very helpful ski patroller who got super excited when he saw me practicing in the beacon park at Breck. I have also done a lot more studying and plan on taking a class this year.

 

 

post #32 of 676

Well they do make zombie specific ammunition now.  biggrin.gif

 

zombiemax02.jpg

post #33 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstreu1026 View Post

Short of traveling back in time to kill the inventor of the first fire arm its all just speculation really.  


He he, yeah what if he shot himself in the face then firearms would never have been developed, right  ?

 

post #34 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstreu1026 View Post


There are a lot of people who really aren't aware of just how far a bullet can travel or just how much energy a bullet has...even a tiny little .22LR.  The few times I've shot outdoors we've always had a decent size earthen backstop.  I am still more comfortable shooting at a modern indoor range.

 



1.6 miles on the back of most 22lr ammo boxes, im sure they could go farther. I use fragmenting bullets and shoot at a backstop with miles and miles of plains and no roads behind that , bullets dissapate almost all energy on contact with the ground, theres no ricochet like you hear with fmj's. I shoot at long ranges with a .204 ruger, so indoor ranges just cant do the trick. Its simple,. just be conscious of what you are shooting at, no matter how far away. All gun accidents can be avoided with awareness of ones surroundings and common sense.

 

post #35 of 676

I was under the impression that an axe or small hatchet is much much much more important as a "survival tool" than any fire arm is.

 

 

post #36 of 676
Thread Starter 

delete double post

post #37 of 676
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

I was under the impression that an axe or small hatchet is much much much more important as a "survival tool" than any fire arm is.

 

 



But they are hard to throw at the dangerous moose and deer

 

I think we need more snow...

post #38 of 676

I often go canoe camping in the summer in black bear country.

Bear attacks happen, but are rare. http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=38983

 

I can't be bothered to carry a gun or rifle.  Seeing how I feel about loading one into the canoe and portaging with one, skiing with one would be very inconvenient.  Most of the time I forget the bear spray and don't worry about it.  I also move through the woods silently like a proper ghost, not singing and ringing bells, not even rattling chains LOL.   If I were in Polar bear or Grizzly/Kodiak bear country I would want serious stopping power.   

 

 

post #39 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by cstreu1026 View Post

...and only criminals would have guns.



Where do they get them?  Crooks can't "make" guns.  Gun industry sells them legally to regular citizens.  Crooks steal them from peoples' houses.  Home owner goes and buys more guns, insurance even pays for the replacements.  The more that this happens, the more guns crooks have, the more people are scared because so many crooks have guns and buy their own guns... which are eventually stolen by crooks.  The gun industry LOVES this vicious cycle.

post #40 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Where do they get them?  Crooks can't "make" guns.  Gun industry sells them legally to regular citizens.  Crooks steal them from peoples' houses.  Home owner goes and buys more guns, insurance even pays for the replacements.  The more that this happens, the more guns crooks have, the more people are scared because so many crooks have guns and buy their own guns... which are eventually stolen by crooks.  The gun industry LOVES this vicious cycle.


Not sure how this relates to what tools are good to take while skiing? 

 

Thing about guns is, they are all tools.  So are hatchets, as tromano noted, chainsaws, machetes,  knives and for that matter canisters of kerosene or gas or propane.  Dogs are both companions and, frankly, useful tools when they do what we want.  All of these can be very useful in certain contexts in the outdoors.  All of them can cause either serious accidents or be misused.

 

Go to England, where carrying a pocket knife can get you sent to jail, and if a burglar say, breaks in to your house, he's unlikely to have a gun, but you're no safer than here, you can't use deadly force to defend yourself,  and odds are that he, as with many criminals, is more experienced with unarmed violence than you and, if he decides to beat you up and rape your wife, aw, stuff happens.  As regards knives also being illegal in many cases over there, to quote Wiki, "Paradoxically, the acknowledged failure of previously-enacted anti-knife legislation in reducing the number of violent crimes involving a knife[43] has led to demands for even stricter measures.[

 

In short, liberals everywhere love to try to control what tools a man can use, where.  What can be amusing is what happens when liberal economists look at guns, though.  If they are intellectually honest, they tend to find that guns are very humane tools that make us safer. 

 

In terms of skiing and riding, though, backpack space is at a premium.  Practical economists, meaning people who do stuff in the outdoors, tend to pare down what they want to carry pretty quickly.  I'm sure there's a member of some college faculty somewhere scheming on how to introduce "compulsory backpack laws" on the heels of mandatory helmet laws, just because it would be fun, but for the moment the people who use the outdoors are free within reason to do what they want.  In Alaska, there's one answer dictated by choice and local conditions.

 

In Colorado, there's probably on average another. That's a good thing.

 


 

 

post #41 of 676

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

By the way, does the OP have an airbag pack yet?  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post

No I haven't...


I was just thinking of what equipment might prove to be of the most value.  If you had to choose and everything.  

 

Though I do hate goddam zombies.  

 

post #42 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 

 


I was just thinking of what equipment might prove to be of the most value.  If you had to choose and everything.  

 

Though I do hate goddam zombies.  

 



Bob, dont'cha know that the new-age zombies aren't damned by G*d, they're the unfortunate victims of an incurable virus.  Stop blaming the victims, Bob.  wink.gif

 

STE

 

P.S.  I agree that if the OP is heading into avalanche terrain, his odds of survival would probably increase by a greater % if he carried an airbag than a handgun.

 

post #43 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by cstreu1026 View Post

...and only criminals would have guns.



Where do they get them?  Crooks can't "make" guns.  Gun industry sells them legally to regular citizens.  Crooks steal them from peoples' houses.  Home owner goes and buys more guns, insurance even pays for the replacements.  The more that this happens, the more guns crooks have, the more people are scared because so many crooks have guns and buy their own guns... which are eventually stolen by crooks.  The gun industry LOVES this vicious cycle.

like I said, short of going back in time to kill the inventor of the first gun no law we pass now is going to make a real difference.
post #44 of 676


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post


 

In terms of skiing and riding, though, backpack space is at a premium.  Practical economists, meaning people who do stuff in the outdoors, tend to pare down what they want to carry pretty quickly.  I'm sure there's a member of some college faculty somewhere scheming on how to introduce "compulsory backpack laws" on the heels of mandatory helmet laws, just because it would be fun, but for the moment the people who use the outdoors are free within reason to do what they want.  In Alaska, there's one answer dictated by choice and local conditions.



 


Setting aside the political aspect of this, CT is totally on point. What you take with you in the BC is pretty much a zero sum game. If you take 3lb gun+ammo  then you cannot take some other 3lb item which may have more utility e.g. would you rather take a pistol or a ultralight sleeping bag and bivy sack? For the day tour both fall under the category of emergency stuff that may never be used...

post #45 of 676
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Where do they get them?  Crooks can't "make" guns.  Gun industry sells them legally to regular citizens.  Crooks steal them from peoples' houses.  Home owner goes and buys more guns, insurance even pays for the replacements.  The more that this happens, the more guns crooks have, the more people are scared because so many crooks have guns and buy their own guns... which are eventually stolen by crooks.  The gun industry LOVES this vicious cycle.



You know I guess they just have magic in most African countries cuz they don't make them either and they sure have a whole lot of guns. Just because you can't buy them legally as a citizen doesn't mean you can't buy them on the black market. Also there are lots of cases of homemade guns. A single shot shot gun is a pretty rudimentary thing all you need is a straight tube and something to strike the primer with. People have made them out of pens...   

post #46 of 676
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post


 


Setting aside the political aspect of this, CT is totally on point. What you take with you in the BC is pretty much a zero sum game. If you take 3lb gun+ammo  then you cannot take some other 3lb item which may have more utility e.g. would you rather take a pistol or a ultralight sleeping bag and bivy sack? For the day tour both fall under the category of emergency stuff that may never be used...



You know I should clarify I wasn't necessarily referring to hand guns. I don't mess around I just take my M16 and it has it's own sling it doesn't take any back pack room up biggrin.gif.

 

That was a joke please don't flip out

  

post #47 of 676

Don't forget the holy hand grenade...

 

I think you were right before a shotgun  has lot more versatility than a rifle just IMO...

post #48 of 676

How could you bring up the Holy Hand Grenade without the video to go with it?

 

post #49 of 676

wow, what kooky question...

 

I'm used to city folk/inexperienced people asking this question about summertime hiking, but not so much regarding skiiing.

 

I'm not going to be-labor this with some long response.

 

No, I have not ever considered carrying a pistol while skiing the backcountry.  No, I have not ever considered carrying a pistol while hiking in the summertime.  Like many have said, I (and you) are not in grizzly country.  However, I did ranger in Denali 3 seasons and never once did I carry a pistol or other type of gun nor did I feel threatened by a grizzly.

 

I know in certain areas it's wise, but, nowhere you are considering going and nowhere you (or I) would go without a guide that would likely handle the firearm situation with something much bigger than a pistol.

 

Knowledge of your environment and surroundings is a better guard.  Knowing how to respond to wildlife is better than assuming you'll shoot your way out of any situation.

 

As aforementioned in the thread, anything that really is threatening you isn't going to get scared off by a pistol, really only injured and angrier.  Good luck hitting a mountain lion.  And see how many people want to ski with you when you start packing heat.

 

post #50 of 676

MtBike.jpg

post #51 of 676
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitter View Post

wow, what kooky question...

 

I'm used to city folk/inexperienced people asking this question about summertime hiking, but not so much regarding skiiing.

 

I'm not going to be-labor this with some long response.

 

No, I have not ever considered carrying a pistol while skiing the backcountry.  No, I have not ever considered carrying a pistol while hiking in the summertime.  Like many have said, I (and you) are not in grizzly country.  However, I did ranger in Denali 3 seasons and never once did I carry a pistol or other type of gun nor did I feel threatened by a grizzly.

 

I know in certain areas it's wise, but, nowhere you are considering going and nowhere you (or I) would go without a guide that would likely handle the firearm situation with something much bigger than a pistol.

 

Knowledge of your environment and surroundings is a better guard.  Knowing how to respond to wildlife is better than assuming you'll shoot your way out of any situation.

 

As aforementioned in the thread, anything that really is threatening you isn't going to get scared off by a pistol, really only injured and angrier.  Good luck hitting a mountain lion.  And see how many people want to ski with you when you start packing heat.

 

I'm guessing you didn't read the rest of the thread. it was never a serious question
 

 

post #52 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post



You know I guess they just have magic in most African countries cuz they don't make them either and they sure have a whole lot of guns. Just because you can't buy them legally as a citizen doesn't mean you can't buy them on the black market. Also there are lots of cases of homemade guns. A single shot shot gun is a pretty rudimentary thing all you need is a straight tube and something to strike the primer with. People have made them out of pens...   



Maybe in prison you will find such devices.  Where do black market suppliers get them?  Some are bought legally then sold illegally.  You can bet when the authorities ask the first purchaser what happened to the guns (that they sold illegally) they will report them stolen. Out on the streets, over 90% of the illegal guns being used in crimes every day were legal guns at one time somewhere but were stolen from the legal owners (or sold to thugs and reported stolen).  There are so many guns here that not only do we supply our own criminals, we supply the Mexican drug gangs in addition to our own thugs.  I'm all for being able to use shot guns and rifles for hunting (and even back country skiing if it really is that dangerous) when the user is properly trained.  But within city limits I'd prefer that nobody have handguns anywhere except law enforcement.  Who would still feel the need to purchase and carry hand guns if we could get all (99%) of the illegal guns off the streets?  Think the gun lobby would stand idly by and allow that to happen? 

 

I'd much prefer that they sell these "tools" to people that take them out in the back country than take them to McDonalds.

post #53 of 676


you're right.  I didn't.  That is to say I stopped when it hinted at becoming a gun control discussion.

 

Of course, the original post wasn't overwhelming in its sense of sarcasm.  And I'm used to you asking some kooky questions.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by splitter View Post

wow, what kooky question...

 

I'm used to city folk/inexperienced people asking this question about summertime hiking, but not so much regarding skiiing.

 

I'm not going to be-labor this with some long response.

 

No, I have not ever considered carrying a pistol while skiing the backcountry.  No, I have not ever considered carrying a pistol while hiking in the summertime.  Like many have said, I (and you) are not in grizzly country.  However, I did ranger in Denali 3 seasons and never once did I carry a pistol or other type of gun nor did I feel threatened by a grizzly.

 

I know in certain areas it's wise, but, nowhere you are considering going and nowhere you (or I) would go without a guide that would likely handle the firearm situation with something much bigger than a pistol.

 

Knowledge of your environment and surroundings is a better guard.  Knowing how to respond to wildlife is better than assuming you'll shoot your way out of any situation.

 

As aforementioned in the thread, anything that really is threatening you isn't going to get scared off by a pistol, really only injured and angrier.  Good luck hitting a mountain lion.  And see how many people want to ski with you when you start packing heat.

 

I'm guessing you didn't read the rest of the thread. it was never a serious question
 

 



 


Edited by splitter - 12/10/11 at 4:35pm
post #54 of 676

Look out, those mountain lions are all over the place!

 

1000x500px-LL-b9fad2ae_cougarandelk.jpg

 

 

Yes, I know it's fake....

post #55 of 676
Thread Starter 


Even though they aren't common mountain lions are what i am most afraid of out there because as people have said you won't know they are there until it's too late.At least with a bear you'll know what's about to happen.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by splitter View Post


you're right.  I didn't.  That is to say I stopped when it hinted at becoming a gun control discussion.

 

Of course, the original post wasn't overwhelming in its sense of sarcasm.  And I'm used to you asking some kooky questions.

 



 


well to be fair the question wasn't written sarcastically. I was bored in English class ( it was the last lesson and we had no more work) and wanted to see the responses. I didn't expect things to get hostile. The only time I take a gun is when I go camping and that's cuz we go target shooting at the same time.

 

Also it's a lot easier to ask kooky questions when no one really knows who we are biggrin.gif. I promise I am not as stupid as some of the questions would make me sound. I just like discussing things, I talk about a lot of what ifs just because I like thinking about it but would never actually do most of it. ( I do admit to most of my back country stuff being serious but that's a discussion  we don't need to get into again.) 

 


Edited by lonewolf210 - 12/10/11 at 11:00pm
post #56 of 676

I think I recall hearing somewhere that some park rangers recommend people carry mace in areas where bear encounters are likely.  Did I dream that?  I have to admit that I'd much rather have a 45 than a can of silly string if cornered by a bear.

post #57 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

I think I recall hearing somewhere that some park rangers recommend people carry mace in areas where bear encounters are likely.  Did I dream that?  I have to admit that I'd much rather have a 45 than a can of silly string if cornered by a bear.



The "Occupy" protests kinda showed the limits of pepper spray.  In a couple of cities protesters got sprayed, and while they winced and looked uncomfortable, I wouldn't say pepper spray incapacitated even yuppie protesters with no work ethic.  Bear spray is supposed to be more potent, of course, but a pissed bear probably also has a better work ethic. :)

post #58 of 676

I'm curious to know where this thread leads. One of these days we're going to hear about a skier whose gun discharged and shot him while taking a tumble in the powder.

 

Seriously, why would anyone in his right mind feel safe skiing with a loaded gun?

post #59 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by oisin View Post

I'm curious to know where this thread leads. One of these days we're going to hear about a skier whose gun discharged and shot him while taking a tumble in the powder.

 

Seriously, why would anyone in his right mind feel safe skiing with a loaded gun?



You folks don't seem to understand. You can have a firearm loaded but with an empty chamber. There is ZERO chance of a discharge in this condition. NONE.

It can still be brought into use in but a few seconds depending on the exact type of gun in question.

 

So a tumble, yardsale, throwing it at a rock ledge etc. will NOT cause the gun to discharge. If people are not fimilar with firearm operation there are classes available almost anywhere in the US......

 

"We fear that which we don't understand"

 

 

 


Edited by Rossi Smash - 12/11/11 at 8:56am
post #60 of 676
Quote:
Originally Posted by lonewolf210 View Post

The only time I take a gun is when I go camping and that's cuz we go target shooting at the same time.

 

 


Tried to stay out of this, but... great way to ruin everyone else's camping trip!

 

 

 

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