Carrying a gun?

Personally, I think you ought to take up biathlon.  What could be better than skiing and shooting?

Mike

No, but there are no grizzlys in UT. If there were it would change things. 

I have never seen a cougar in 5 years nor even heard of sightings. I know they are around but I suspect they are much more afraid of me than I am of them. The cats here are conditioned to fear man because of frequent hunting. Even if there were aggressive cats, at 200lbs, its much more likely the cat is going to go after someone else. e.g. a child on a mountain bike.

Realisticly I would be much more likely to shoot domestic dog off the leash owner no where in sight when I am out MTB riding than any wild animal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonewolf210 

I know several people that make up wacky excuses so they can always take a pistol random silly places...

 

They can also be useful for survival situations like shooting grubs and trout and berries...

FIFY :)

Seriously? Planning on skiing Svalbard? Touring in AK grizzly country? Think you can drop a bear with a handgun? Your ESP gonna tell you a cougar is behind and above you - where it'd likely be if it were stalking you...

I know there are parts of the Springs that are gun happy (among other things), but come on... Also, is that claim of a big cat  really confirmed? I know someone who rides the Academy trail(s) routinely and have never heard this bit of info. 

Not to mention I would not be surprised if there were regulatory or legal issues in certain places. Honestly, if you are attending the Academy, don't they teach you how to apply critical thinking skills to weapons? Is pepper spray, in places where it makes sense, not lethal enough?

I periodically get a cougar or bear in my yard.  I don't carry a gun when I go out to the garden shed. Heck, I don't even carry pepper spray... ;)

The sample size of North American skiers getting attacked by mountain lions is gonna be pretty small.  Taking a pistol salmon fishing in Alaska makes total sense, taking one touring in CO or UT makes no sense.

Outside of that, thinking you really need a pistol for "survival situations" is to me kinda odd, if your frame of reference is say CO or UT. I hunt, have no problems with guns in the great outdoors, but just don't get it.

If you're planning on taking out a big bear you'd better have something like a .454 Casull.

I'm of the opinion that we'd all be a lot safer if most folks carried guns. I know for sure that it's a good survival tactic in a big city like Miami or Detroit.

And no, pepper spray isn't enough.

Looking at this I'd think you guys could do better than a little 45 caliber pistol..

Isn't encountering a moose actually the most likely dangerous or fatal wildlife encounter most humans have in the back country?

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Originally Posted by spindrift 

 

 Think you can drop a bear with a handgun?

 

People can and do hunt bears with hand guns.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilehed 

If you're planning on taking out a big bear you'd better have something like a .454 Casull.

 

I'm of the opinion that we'd all be a lot safer if most folks carried guns. I know for sure that it's a good survival tactic in a big city like Miami or Detroit.

 

And no, pepper spray isn't enough.

.44 mag., .454 Casull, .500 S&W, .480 Ruger, .445 Super mag, and 41 magnum are all acceptable.  Basically anything .40 Caliber or larger, 200+ grain, and 1000+ fps will bring down a large, dangerous animal.

..and I agree about more people carrying. 

I'm probably putting my foot in it.  (I know there is nothing stupider than commenting on a gun thread, but here goes.)  When I've encountered men carrying hand guns when I've been out hiking I haven't thought "oh good now we all have protection against lions tigers and bears" but "Oh God I hope this guy isn't an idiot or a freak".  To be honest I'd rather meet the bear.

How much of an issue are grizzlies or cougars where you ski, even in back country?  Cougars have been declared extinct east of the Mississippi. In the West Cougars are around but they are mostly furtive creatures who rarely attack humans.  When they hunt they do so by hiding and dropping from above. If they wanted to attack, they would be on you before you drew your gun. You wouldn't know what attacked you.     Grizzlies in the lower 48 are so rare their numbers are counted I believe in the hundreds (for the entire western 48).  How likely even in the back country are YOU going to meet one. I agree Alaska is a different tune. 

I live in a town where bears (not grizzles) and cougars are common.  Bears are sighted often where I run daily and I see their scat and claw marks all the time.  I've been told that I've ran past them by other runners.  I've never needed a gun.  Cougars are sighted in my and my families neighborhoods all the time.  I know they are likely to be where I run in the spring and summer.  Naturalists have collared them and tracked them into areas where I run and hike.  Again I'm alive and have never needed a gun.  (Now a mother and son were shot by the police a few years ago in my neighborhood because of their creepy desire to watch people through windows, but again that was seen as aberrant cougar behavior) Most wander around unmolested and unmolesting.  They kill  stray cats and dogs, but people no.   I really don't see a gun as being helpful or necessary against 99% of these  creatures.

As for the Grizzlies there are a lot fewer Grizzlies in the lower 48 of the USA than back country skiers.  We need all we have.  Maybe you should stay out of their territory in the spring and fall and not have to shoot them for your own safety.   You can ski anywhere. They can live in very few places.  Even in Alaska they aren't unlimited in numbers.

I"ve lived in Detroit and Pontiac Michigan.  Those cities would not be improved by more guns, believe me.  What they could use are more Police officers. They are grossly understaffed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonewolf210 

I believe so, yes. Maybe I should carry some tear gas canisters won't kill the animal but he will certainly leave. Or I could just take a m240 those are always fun

 

I'll just take the handgun for fishing

 

Actually deer have been known to not play nice too

Dude, the aggressive deer scenario is suggesting to me that this may be another performance art thread. 

If you find a deer eyeing you a little too boldly, it's time to worry about what estrus scent you may be rockin', not worrying about self-defense.

Or, as a skiing air force dude who should be up for the challenge, ski straight at the sucker.  What's the air force coming too if future officers can't man up when faced by shy, actively hunted prey animals?

Heh.

Lonewolf, I live out here in gun world, and a whole lot closer to actual wildlife than a lot of folks on this board.

On the day that I can guarantee that I'll never, ever crash, 100% of the time, and blow my fool head off... well, that's the day that I'll even consider carrying a gun.  Gun accidents happen - they won't happen to me if I don't carry a gun.

The comment upthread that "mountain lions are a lot more scared of me" is very, very true.  They have a huge range and are very thinly populated.  I consider myself extremely fortunate when I even spot tracks.  

I'm a lot more scared of gun-toting rednecks than I'd ever be of the wildlife.  And since the rednecks are on snowmobiles, by and large - well, if they're out en masse I just ski someplace else.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonewolf210 

I had a feeling this was gunna happen. I really don't understand people's fear of guns. Yes they can be dangerous but it's not like they have a mind of their own.

 

Also the whole point of carrying a gun is that you have it when you need it. Most people don't get mugged walking in a city but it happens and the people that are able to protect themselves usually come out of those situations better than those who don't. It's like carrying a med kit or survival gear most people never need it doesn't mean they shouldn't carry it. 

 

I didn't want the thread to go this direction but the simple fact is that concealed weapons carriers ( I mean people who do it legally not gang members)  have significantly lower rate of violent crime over those who don't.

 

To be fair he said he was afraid of strangers with guns, not the guns themselves...

The entire point of carrying a hand gun for protection is to quietly threaten those around you others with reciprocity. If you try anything, I will respond with force. When someone then complains about actually feeling threatened your response seems to not make any sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurking4years 

 When I've encountered men carrying hand guns when I've been out hiking I haven't thought "oh good now we all have protection against lions tigers and bears" but "Oh God I hope this guy isn't an idiot or a freak".  

 

That is exactly the reason I carry a gun when I ride on the bike paths around our area.  Most parts are pretty isolated and in my mind would a great place to be robbed or just assaulted.  you never know who's out there willing to harm you for pocket change or less.

It all comes down to the idea of mutually assured destruction.  It worked during the cold war...

I don't disbelieve you there.   When I encounter someone I don't know and know nothing about except that he is carrying a gun, I don't assume  that he is someone who is honest and knows what he is doing. All I know is I'm in an isolated place, alone (even if I am with a few other people a gun out numbers a group) with an armed person I don't know.   Humans are a pretty dangerous species more so than bears and cougars. A person with a gun can hurt someone they way a person with a med kit can't.  I don't have a problem with hunters in season.  Why they are armed is obvious, and the woods can feel pretty crowded in hunting season.

My other issue is simply questioning whether someone should put themselves in a position where they need to kill an animal that is relatively rare and living its life.  I know that can be impossible to avoid for someone who wants to enjoy the outdoors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurking4years 

My other issue is simply questioning whether someone should put themselves in a position where they need to kill an animal that is relatively rare and living its life.  I know that can be impossible to avoid for someone who wants to enjoy the outdoors.

Mtn lions aren't the rarest thing in the world.  Bears aren't either.  They have seasons on both in lots of states.

For that matter, there are mtn lions in the east -- the main resistance to recognizing them is the huge regulatory clusterfrig that would ensure becuase of what "environmentalists" have created in terms of regulatory "protection." 

But, again, that doesn't mean you need a handgun while skiing.

I do have to say, in response to some of the safety concerns, that a handgun, properly carried, would be less dangerous to someone in the bc than ice axes, crampons, and several other things that often get carried.  Probably safer than stoves, given some of the stove misadventures I've seen. 

But, a handgun is also a tool of very specific and limited utility.  Maybe if you were skijoring an area that had seen a lot of coyotes attacking dogs, or somethin, except I've never heard of that happening in that context, either.  (Coyotes attacking dogs on leash in front of their owners, yes, but in the summer...)  It again just doesn't make sense based on the wildlife interactions I can think of.

I love shooting, almost as much as skiing, and do a little hunting here and there, but there is no reason for me to carry a gun in the backcountry, we dont have grizzly bears, and mountain lions around here are shy. I do more sidecountry than backcountry but when im biking or hiking I just make alot of noise as I move along. Talk to myself or wear a bell, I may look a little crazy but it keeps the animals away. If I was in grizz country I would carry a handgun, probably a s&w 44 or 500 (dream pistol). Around here Ive never seen a bear or their markings and have only seen one mountain lion. Moose elk and deer are the animals that worry me more than anything, they dont always play nice if you suprise them, hence the noise. Two ski patrollers that are also deputies carry while on the local hill, and they should be the only ones with a gun there. They are more worried about a disgruntled employee or guest than animals. If I did carry while skiing I would definitely keep an empty chamber, but like I said, theres no reason for me to carry.

And I thought nobody else actually watched the movie Frozen.. 

Again, it is the moose that you need to watch out for..

Please DO take your guns with you when you go skiing or hiking or go anywhere else.  If you leave it at home someone will likely break in to your home and steal it.  Eventually, someone will be killed by your formerly legal gun.  Homes of known firearm owners are far more likely to be burglarized than the other homes in the neighborhood.  That "Premesis Protected by Smith and Wesson" sticker looks like a blue steel light special to thugs when you are not at home.  Any cop will tell you to take it down and don't ever brag about your weapons where strangers can overhear the boasting.

Fear the MOOSE!  The moose is loose!

Actually, it's the - wait for it........  ice spiders!

Really. The SyFy channel would not make this stuff up. No way.

Definitely at least as great a threat to the average skier as any of the aforementioned hazards...

Wildlife?  Who worries about wildlife?  I'm thinking what if you come back from a day of bc skiing and find that the zombie apocalypse has broken out?  You'd be pretty damn sorry then if you weren't packing.  

By the way, does the OP have an airbag pack yet?  

Could you carry a laser designator?

Not everyone who carries a gun is sensible about using one.  On several occasions in different sections of the country where I've lived (including Texas and North Carolina, gun friendly places) local people have been accidentally shot by people who were great distances away and had set up poorly designed homemade shooting ranges in the woods.  (I have nothing against a professional shooting range, there's one near where I live. My sons have shot there.)

Last fall they had to put a bear down in my town. It was a juvenile found wandering around "acting strange" in a persons back yard.  It was acting strange because it  was partially paralyzed.  The necropsy revealed two bullets in its spine, so the vets put it to sleep.  This in a town where bears are normally photographed in people's back yards not shot.  People are relaxed about bears and generally have no problems with them. They lock up their trash and avoid bird feeders. The woman who made the call about the animal lived on acreage and was accustomed to seeing the occasional bear.  Everyone I know was upset that the animal had to lose its life for no apparent reason.  It wasn't hunting season and no one reported a threat from a bear.  It seemed like someone shot the animal on principle.  I would add that two bullets in the back of a juvenile didn't kill the bear just wounded it so it wandered around injured, unable to feed itself.  Someone who shoots a bear has to know what they are doing.  Merely hurting an animal without killing it is generally considered cruel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lurking4years 

Not everyone who carries a gun is sensible about using one.  On several occasions in different sections of the country where I've lived (including Texas and North Carolina, gun friendly places) local people have been accidentally shot by people who were great distances away and had set up poorly designed homemade shooting ranges in the woods.  (I have nothing against a professional shooting range, there's one near where I live. My sons have shot there.)

 

 

There are a lot of people who really aren't aware of just how far a bullet can travel or just how much energy a bullet has...even a tiny little .22LR.  The few times I've shot outdoors we've always had a decent size earthen backstop.  I am still more comfortable shooting at a modern indoor range.

Ever think what life would be like if  the constitutional "right  to bare arms" was referring to short sleeve shirts. There would be thousands more people alive today and large cities would be safer to live in.

...and only criminals would have guns.

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Originally Posted by cstreu1026 

...and only criminals would have guns.

Not entirely true. In Canada, where a fraction of the population have hand guns when compared to the US, most B&E criminals don't carry guns because they know that if they encounter a home owner it is highly unlikely that the homeowner will have a gun. And the penalties for illegal possession of a hand gun are greater than B&E.

Short of traveling back in time to kill the inventor of the first fire arm its all just speculation really.