Jackson Hole vs. Telluride vs. Banff vs .....

T-ride is incredibly beautiful, but hard to get to, and also very spread out on-hill.  Jackson might be more user-friendly for you, and my bias is there's more to do down in Jackson.  Snowbasin could be a good bet for lots of intermediate-friendly, non-bumped terrain, or one of the other Ogden area resorts, if you wanted to try something different in UT.  See Bob Peters "guide to skiing Jackson" which is on here somewhere if you go.

hmmmm, concerned about lack of snow and level of terrain at telluride and think jackson is appealing.  Why not go to targhee?  Typically, they get even more snow than jackson, have less extreme terrain but plenty for most skiiers, and a more mellow scene too boot.  sounds like my kinda place, but not necessarily yours.

I have lived in JH for 22 years and have visited T-Ride several times for the Bluegrass Festival and once for an ISSW conference.  I have never been there for ski season.  I think Telluride is beautiful and the actual town may have a higher concentration of Bars and such than Teton Village does.  You need to be careful in Telluride to not get stranded in town if you are staying in Mountain Village.  The return gondola ends far too early.  This happened to some of my friends from Sunshine.  In their drunken condition they thought it would be a good idea to call the Mayor and wake him up at 3:00 am to share their experience and opinion of it with him.  I was amazed at their resourcefulness in obtaining the correct number at that time of the morning in their condition.  The event organizers were not.  Fortunately I was saved from being caught in that mess by my Wing-man JZ.  It was my birthday and the Sunshine Boys were feeding me shots.  My judgment was definitely not all there and Jeff dragged me onto the last gondola and safely home.  I owe him one for that.

Jackson sounds like the kind of experience you are looking for.  We have great skiing at Teton Village and Grand Targhee is worth checking out for a day.  I enjoy the Ghee in one or two day bursts.  After that I start to get bored.  The Ghee will make you feel like a Rock-Star skier with its mellower pitch and great snow.  Then you can return to JH and resume your beating.  Targhee is also problematic during its frequent white out days as it lacks continuous tree lines and it's easy to get disoriented if you don't know the mountain.  It's not called Grand Fogghee for nothing.  On a clear day you can see the back side of the Tetons and it's awesome.  I like the mellow vibe and The Trap Bar is one of my favorite Apre spots when they have live music.

There are plenty of non skiing things to do in Jackson.  There's sleigh rides, Snowmobile tours, Dog Sled tours, Para-sailing, Wildlife tours.....  If you have a car and want some adventure I'll tell you how to find some BC hot-springs to skinny dip in.

It sounds like you will have fun no matter where you wind up.  I think you will like Jackson.

It's a quirky stat, for sure, but Jackson also has a nice public pool.  Laps on the slide are a good way to get some exercise on rest days.  The airport @ Jackson stays open better. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlander 

I'm not interested in level terrain. My preference is lots of steeps with bumps and ungroomed mixed in, as that's where I'm looking to improve most. 

Go to Jackson. Leave your ego at home, or pack some bandages. You'll have a ball.
 

Time of year, La Nina season, expressed terrain interest: I think Jackson is the clear cut choice among the 3 you present.

I'd throw out a vote for Banff. Some of the most scenic skiing in the entire world, a great mountain town and smack in the middle of a national park--great trip for a couple (I took my honeymoon in Lake Louise). In addition to skiing, you'll find a ton of other great outdoor activities like exploring glaciers, hiking to frozen waterfalls, snowshoeing or carriage rides around the lake, etc.

If you don't want to jump around, just ski one of the Big 3--Lake Louise is larger than pretty much any other resort you're talking about, no need to bounce around. I'm in boycott mode on Sunshine thanks to their horrific employee relations and censorship efforts, but it's another big resort that has plenty for a full vacation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlander 

Also considered Banff but am souring on it due to the expected frigid temp in late Jan and the relative inconvenience of moving back and forth between the big 3.

I wouldn't get too wigged out about Banff in January.  Unless you have the misfortune of hitting one of the short, two or three times a season, cold snaps, it's actually not that cold.  Average daytime highs for Banff in January, according to Environment Canada, range between -4 and 0 Celcius (25 and 32 F).  When you take into consideration the extremely low humidity here, it feels much warmer than the numbers indicate.  It's very comfortable here to walk around outside in -5 weather wearing nothing more than a sweater or fleece.

Funny, myself and my wife and kids have been discussing the same choices. I have been skiing Telluride since 1986, and return annually to ski there. I have never been bored nor will you. There is something for everyone and plenty of steeps without bumps if you so choose. The town of Telluride is a must visit, unbelievable scenery and great restaurants and bars. Like any mountain it needs snow, if its a light year I would not recommend Telluride, but its way to early to make that call. The last couple of years have been very good conditions during my stays. 

Side note, I almost always do this trip with the "guys", though we went to Telluride as a family 5 or 6 years ago. This year my son (13) said "no way are you going out west without me anymore Dad". So now we are discussing where to go as a family of 4. Jackson Hole is in the lead. I haven't skied Jackson Hole in 20 or so some odd years and really want to get back there, keep saying the same thing about Crested Butte where I lived for a couple seasons, but still end up at Telluride every year. Like the forecasters have mentioned the snow may be heavier in the northern regions of the rockies this year. Telluride is still one of our choices, as is Whister, a distant 3rd. 

I have come to the conclusion no matter where we go out west, as a family of 4 its gonna cost some dollars, so there better be some snow, but more importantly my kids love skiing and have been bitten by the "bug" and I love that they want to go with me and explore new mountains.....

Anyway.......You might not want to go to Telluride, it could very well be the last resort you ever visit. 

Well, I wouldn't be picking Jackson expecting it to be warmer in January than Banff.  To be clear, I don't know what the temps are in Banff in Jan., but Jan. in Jackson can be miserably cold.  It often is -20 F with a high that is still well below zero. 

That being said, you can sometimes get an inversion under these conditions, where it is bitterly cold at the base, but the top of the mountain is nice (e.g. above 10).

Jackson is my favorite ski area.  Add in the Tetons, and it's a locale that is tough to beat.  Take a few extra days and visit Yellowstone in winter, and there is no other experience like it.

Mike

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlander 

The average high for Sunshine Village in January is 17 F.

That's way below any weather sites I've ever looked at (and lower than what I usually experience when there).  MSN Weather says the average daytime high in January for Sunshine Village is 28F.

Historic January weather data for Teton Village:

greenlander, I'll just kind of jump in here on temps at Jackson Hole.

Our reported temps can be pretty confusing.  I wonder if some of the averages you may be finding are for Jackson, Wyoming, as opposed to the ski resort.  Jackson, Wyoming, is the town located toward the south end of the valley known as Jackson Hole.  Jackson Hole Mountain Resort is the ski area that's actually located toward the southwest (sort of) corner of Jackson Hole - the valley - but the "town" at the ski resort is Teton Village.  Jackson (town) and the ski area are about 12 miles apart.

So, if you just look up Jackson or Jackson Hole temps, you could very well be getting averages for the town of Jackson and not for the ski area at Teton Village.  Temperatures in town are generally somewhat warmer than those at Teton Village, although I don't have any stats to quantify that.  habacomike's chart is for Teton Village itself, so I think it's more representative than any stats you might find for Jackson Hole.

Just to confuse the matter even more, it's an ongoing bone of contention around here that the reported temperatures at the Jackson Hole Mountain Resort (the ski area) SEEM to be warmer during serious cold snaps than what everyone's car thermometers register.  As an example, this past Monday morning my car thermometer (which is usually very, very close to what I see on my mercury thermometer at my house when I leave in the morning) gave a reading of -14F when I pulled into the ski area parking lot at 8:00am.  The official snow report was listing the temp at the base of the ski area as -1F.  That differential seems to be a regular occurrence during the winter.  It might be because the official weather station for the base of the ski resort is in a grove of trees about 300 vertical feet higher than the base of the tram, and usually when we have serious cold weather it's accompanied by a temperature inversion.

So...

It can certainly be very cold here.  Typically, that would ONLY happen during a period of extreme high pressure, clear skies, no new snow, etc.  Because of the huge difference in elevation between the top of our mountain and the bottom, however, those really cold periods are almost always associated with temperature inversions that can make the upper part of the mountain very, very pleasant.  It isn't uncommon during that kind of January high pressure system for our base temp to be -20F but the temp at the top of the gondola or the tram to be +20F, or a forty-degree differential.  When that happens, we ride the enclosed tram or gondola up to the upper part of the mountain, ski all day in the beautiful sunshine, and then cover every bit of exposed skin when we ski back down into the cold layer in the valley.

Finally...

None of this happens if we're in a snowfall pattern.  If the weather systems are moving through (as opposed to a stationary high pressure system) and it's snowing a lot, you'll find temps will range from the teens overnight to the 20's during the day, accompanied by a lot of snowfall.  That's perfect skiing conditions and I would say from personal experience skiing here over nearly 40 years that it's more likely you'll run into THOSE conditions than the cold high pressure system.

Whew! 

Thanks for putting this chart together, Mike.  

That's helpful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by habacomike 

Historic January weather data for Teton Village:

 

Past Monthly Weather Data for Teton Village, WY [Wyoming] ("Jackson Hole Arpt") : JANUARY, 1973 - 2011

All months for this station: JanuaryFebruaryMarchAprilMayJuneJulyAugustSeptemberOctoberNovemberDecember [Other Locations] Help

Year	Lowest Temperature (F)	Highest Temperature (F)	Warmest Minimum Temperature (F)	Coldest Maximum Temperature (F)	Average Minimum Temperature (F)	Average Maximum Temperature (F)	Mean Temperature (F)	Total Precipitation (In)	Total Snowfall (In)	Max 24hr Precipitation (In)	Max 24hr Snowfall (In)
2011	-18	43	34	3	5.9	24.3	15.1	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
2010	-24	34	23	0	4.4	24.9	14.6	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
2009	-22	52	30	-8	6.3	26.0	16.1	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
2008	-18	36	21	7	2.3	20.8	11.6	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
2007	-27	36	28	0	-4.4	17.3	6.4	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
2006	-11	34	21	9	5.6	24.1	14.8	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
2005	-6	43	28	18	9.9	26.5	18.2	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
2004	-18	55	27	5	1.6	21.0	11.3	92.43	NR	20.00	NR
2003	-9	43	36	16	13.9	31.5	22.7	104.79	NR	10.03	NR
2002	-26	43	27	3	4.9	22.4	13.6	0.10	NR	0.10	NR
2001	-20	36	18	5	-4.1	18.9	7.4	0.05	NR	0.02	NR
2000	-24	39	28	3	9.2	25.7	17.5	0.81	NR	0.17	NR
1999	-17	41	34	7	9.9	26.7	18.3	0.26	NR	0.06	NR
1998	-8	39	32	7	11.2	27.9	19.6	0.26	NR	0.07	NR
1997	-13	39	37	1	7.6	22.6	15.1	0.73	NR	0.22	NR
1996	-26	40	32	-8	3.6	23.0	13.3	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1995	-29	39	32	-5	5.5	21.4	13.4	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1994	-21	38	25	4	10.4	26.7	18.6	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1993	-17	31	27	1	1.7	16.2	9.0	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1992	-16	40	30	2	5.0	22.8	13.9	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1991	-19	36	29	3	3.2	22.6	12.9	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1990	-23	44	37	3	9.5	25.6	17.6	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1989	-30	40	27	-3	2.0	20.3	11.2	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1988	-27	35	28	4	2.8	21.8	12.3	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1987	-21	45	34	-1	1.4	20.5	10.9	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1986	-16	42	34	11	6.7	26.6	16.7	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1985	-34	38	24	-5	-3.4	19.5	8.1	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1984	-35	38	30	-9	2.8	20.6	11.7	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1983	-23	41	34	3	8.4	27.1	17.8	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1982	-21	30	23	0	7.1	19.5	13.3	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1981	-5	42	27	24	9.4	32.1	20.8	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1980	-29	40	34	-3	6.9	22.9	14.9	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1979	-20	30	23	-7	0.4	13.1	6.7	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1978	-10	37	30	4	18.7	28.2	23.5	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1977	-23	37	24	2	3.7	23.0	13.3	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1976	6	41	27	23	17.2	29.4	23.3	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1975	-21	39	35	-2	7.1	21.7	14.4	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1974	-24	47	38	-2	17.9	27.8	22.8	0.00	NR	0.00	NR
1973	-18	36	30	10	9.0	22.9	15.9	0.00	NR	0.00	NR

 

Yes, Banff is colder than Jackson, but that's not the bottom line of why these people should go to Jackson in January.   Jackson averages twice as much snow as Banff  and significantly more than Telluride, so clearly the best bet for desired "deeper powder."  As noted in many other discussions you want to be in Jackson in the colder/weak sun months because the sunny exposure won't affect the powder so much.  Banff and Telluride fit the opposite weather pattern; they accumulate snow gradually but preserve it well.  Thus March tends to be best in those places for maximum coverage of steep terrain.

Contrary to La Nina predictions, Telluride has a slightly deeper base than Jackson Hole right now. And Taos has it beat by quite a bit and Wolf Creek by a mile.... Obviously lots can change by January, but the Southern Rockies and San Juans are rockin' early season this year. (we just skied 30" of fresh snow on a 55+" base at WC last weekend.) So while averages and stats are probably the most useful predictors if you have to book way ahead, you can predict climate with some accuracy a month out, but surely not the weather.

Tell me about it.  The next 14 days have a whole lot of nothing predicted, taking us to 12/21, yet the Climate Prediction Center is calling for December to be colder and have more snow that normal.  For that to be true, we'll have to get six feet in the last ten days of the month....

You have chosen     wisely.

An inversion day at Jackson Hole (from Feb 2011)  -

My view is a day at Jackson, whether it is =20 or +100, is better than a day most anywhere else.  Now, I've not been to Banff, but it just might be in the same league.  I've heard Kicking Horse is the real deal.  Perhaps I'll get there this year.

Mike

I saw on the news they just had some snow in northern Mexico.  So....nowhere.  Pack some more clothes.  I've been known to go out in two pairs of ski pants, double jackets liners, double face masks, bootgloves, etc.  And been warm as toast.  If you're worried about fashion, don't be.  There's not enough people out in those conditions to see you looking like the Michelin man and the quality of the snow is fantastic.  More than likely you won't need the extra clothes, but why suffer for lack of planning?

Read my signature...   
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenlander 

 

Honestly, where can you go where you don't risk the chance of a severe cold snap? My wife had to cancel a trip to Copper a year or two ago because the high during her trip was well in the negative teens.

 

 

Wolf Creek has a very unusual microclimate and is one of the few standouts of the early season.  Telluride has had 52 inches season-to-date, 96% of mormal and is 10% open.  Taos doesn't post in-season snow stats but is 20% open.  Taos and Telluride are doing better than most so far but are a long way from rockin'.   I'd place far better odds on Jackson reaching full operation by Christmas than either.