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Right boot cuts circulation & DIN/Forward Pressure Strangeness (Help, I don't speak German!)

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 

I need a little help because I'm in a new country (Germany), where I don't yet speak the language (though I have a translator... gf), and the whole consumer/service experience ain't what it is in the U.S... and unless someone has a bootfitter suggestion for Munich, I'm on my own.

 

I've got two questions, based on buying totally new gear:

 

Circulation in right foot...

1. Recently picked up size 26 Lange Banshee (2009) boots. Tried the 27s, but they were obviously too big (2 finger shell fit). I like the boots because I have narrow ankles, and these seem to hold my foot down. I shell fit myself in the 26s, and they are around 1 finger. Width: just a small space. The problem is that the right foot (but not the left) has reduced circulation when I have the boot on... indoors (still waiting/crying about this Alpine drought/balmy weather we're having). Left foot feels good and tight, and I can leave them on and watch TV for 20 min and no circulation issues. Right foot feels "funny" circulation wise within a few minutes, though even with the boots on for up to 20 minutes, it doesn't feel totally numb, just not real healthy, if you know what I mean. I can tell that there's pressure, on the right foot, around the nub outside the pinky toe. Any suggestions? Any Munich, Germany bootfitters or Epic skiers who wants to meet up (also looking for ski buddies here!)-- I'll buy beer-- and take a look at my stuff? It is possible, though, that the circulation in my right leg isn't quite as good... that's the leg that falls asleep sooner if I sit in an uncomfortable chair. 

 

 

DIN, Forward Pressure, AFD height...

2. This is more of a binding question, but you boot guys might have some insight since this may have something to do with the Vibram sole on the Banshees. I have the new Marker Griffons (13 DIN; adjustable AFD height/position) mounted. Had to buy this online, and they set the bindings for the right BSL, but didn't have the boots themselves, so I still wanted to get the bindings properly checked for rated DIN/Torque with the boots in. I did this at one of those huge sport shops in Munich (think REI, but, eh, more cocky, less creative in terms of problem solving, and consider that the German shopping experience is more along the lines of: there's one answer, the shop worker tells you what to buy/get, and you just do what he/she says). 

 

I get the skis/bindings/boot back, and everything doesn't quite seem kosher to me (based on the markings on my slip, I'm assuming the testing machine was "Speedtronic Pro"):

 

Both bindings are MzR (Nm) 60, MzL (Nm) 60, My (Nm) 239.

Both bindings pass (they wrote "gut", good).

But the left binding rates DIN 7 for all three values.

The right binding rates 6.5 for the first two values, and 7 for the last value

 

Also, the left binding AFD height is such that a piece of 20lb paper folded in half slides out from the boot/AFD interface with light pressure-- and binding's forward pressure indicator, the screw behind the binding, is flush with the binding housing (the head of the screw is flush with the sunken rectangle of black plastic in the binding).

 

But the right binding AFD height is such that the same paper test yields no friction/pressure from the boot/AFD interface-- and the binding's forward pressure indicator is such that with the boot in the binding, the screw is NOT flush with the sunken rectangle part of the black plastic. Instead, the line around screw head is almost flush with this part, but the head itself sticks out significantly more than on the other binding.

 

Does this mean that they checked the bindings, decided it was "close enough" and just passed them? Because it seems to me-- though I could be wrong-- that the forward pressure of the right binding is not set to spec, which is effectively lowering the DIN 7 setting (that's what it looks like on the binding, as it was set when mounted by the shop where I bought the skis) to a DIN 6.5 setting? Should I adjust the right binding forward pressure a click or two further? Should I adjust the right binding AFD plate a little higher until I get some friction using the paper test?

 

I'd like to get the forward pressure and AFD height dialed in right... so that once I take these skis out, I can start the process of finding the right DIN (I ski very aggressively, and my experience in the past has been that the chart DIN settings tend to be on the low side of what I need... though I'm not one of those crank it to 12+ people) based on whether I am gettin pre-release or not as I ride. BTW, I'm 29 y/o, ~ 5' 10", ~150 lbs (actually, a little less because I dropped too much weight cycling so much this summer, but I'm trying to put it back on), 308 BSL, and this is all on Blizzard Bonafide 180 cm, Griffon 13, Banshee 2009. 

 

Many, many thanks. 

post #2 of 6

forward pressure adjustment should have the line on the screw even with the heel housing.

 

that said, the more aggressive your skiing style, more forward pressure would be useful. you could go as far as head of screw flush with the heel housing.

 

keep in mind your boot sole changes dimensions from room temp to below freezing, so forward pressure has to have a range to work in all temperatures.

 

the griffon has self adjusting toe height adjustment.

 

based on the newtonmeter numbers on your work shop ticket it appears that they used a skier code of "L" which seems low based on the information that you gave us. did you use a lower weight or skier type when you filled out the form? also why do you care if as you stated you are going to change them anyhow?

 

my guess is based on the information that you gave them, they adjusted the din properly and tested the binding properly. why wouldn't they, they are germans. you know the place that developed the duestch industrie norm  - DIN

 

jim

post #3 of 6
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post

forward pressure adjustment should have the line on the screw even with the heel housing.

 

that said, the more aggressive your skiing style, more forward pressure would be useful. you could go as far as head of screw flush with the heel housing.

 

keep in mind your boot sole changes dimensions from room temp to below freezing, so forward pressure has to have a range to work in all temperatures.

 

the griffon has self adjusting toe height adjustment.

 

based on the newtonmeter numbers on your work shop ticket it appears that they used a skier code of "L" which seems low based on the information that you gave us. did you use a lower weight or skier type when you filled out the form? also why do you care if as you stated you are going to change them anyhow?

 

my guess is based on the information that you gave them, they adjusted the din properly and tested the binding properly. why wouldn't they, they are germans. you know the place that developed the duestch industrie norm  - DIN

 

jim


 

Thanks Jim.

 

It's possible there was some confusion in the communication between myself the the shop. Funny thing they did though, something that I've never experienced before: they measured the diameter of my leg right below or at the bottom of my knee! They asked if I was a beginner or pro-- and I said, "Whatever your highest level is." They did not ask for my height or weight. But I also just asked them to confirm forward pressure setting, check AFD height for the boot (because it has a Vibram sole), and confirm that the DIN settings matched release. 

 

So do you think it's OK for me put the two forward pressure settings (via screw) so they are the same... giving the right binding a click or two more? 

 

To respond your questions/queries:

 

- There might have been confusion over skier type/weight.

 

- I wanted to test the DIN reading/forward pressure because the bindings are new, and I just wanted to make sure nothing was seriously out of whack before I start the process of dialing in the right DIN based on my riding experience.

 

- I still find it odd that the forward pressure setting seems so different from left to right binding. The only other explanation I have is that maybe there's variation in actual BSL between the left and right boots-- and since they only used one boot to test/set with, maybe that's what's causing it.  

 

- I thought the new Griffons do not have self-adjusting AFD... but maybe I'm confused. There's a worm screw that slides the AFD on a track, moving it fore-aft and in moving it forward raising the height. It's possible for me to bring it all the way down and leave a visible gap between the AFD and binding interface, or put it up and make impossible to pass the AFD paper test. 

 

 

post #4 of 6

my bad on the toe height adjustment of the griffon. you are correct, those should be equal height, about .5mm gap.

 

jim

post #5 of 6
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by starthaus View Post

my bad on the toe height adjustment of the griffon. you are correct, those should be equal height, about .5mm gap.

 

jim



Cool. Also, I think the shop that mounted the bindings originally figured a longer BSL... because the Marker chart I found shows the twist torque of 60 at the min value (chart would put me .5 DIN higher), and forward lean 239 is below the min (again, should be at least .5 DIN higher). I'll crank it to chart specs, fix AFD height, and consider bringing forward pressure into parity-- and use that as my starting point for ratcheting the DIN to the lowest value to prevent pre-release as I get this new gear on the mountain. 

 

Thanks again Jim.

post #6 of 6

Errm, reckon we can just go skiing............................words.gif

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ask the Boot Guys › Right boot cuts circulation & DIN/Forward Pressure Strangeness (Help, I don't speak German!)