I hate my skis!! - Page 3

I luv my 186 2010-2011 Gotamas and I'm 6' 210 and I ski most of the time on New England hardpack.

I'm wondering if some of the issue might be in your head.  Your initial post emphasizes things that are different about the skis - 20 cm longer, heavy (24 pounds).  You said that your old skis are too short by "most of your standards" (not your own standards).  All of the above suggests that you might have had some reservations about the skis even before putting them on.  Having some reservations about length is common - just look at how many "how long should I buy" threads there are on Epic.

Being apprehensive about the skis might have led you to be a little stiffer and move with less flow, which can lead to all sorts of mechanical/form glitches that might be out of your awareness.  

I also suspect that with your size and probable strength you could cheat a little with smaller, more forgiving ski, and the Goat is bringing home some of your ski technique weaknesses.  This would be exaggerated if you feel at all apprehensive.

As a potential solution, short of a lesson, spend the entire next morning with the Goats and just work at basic carving on easier blue or green runs.  Get the ski to carve, get the feel of it hooking up in a turn, play with skiing the whole turn or releasing the tails at the beginning or end of the turn.  Work up to being more aggressive on the blues.  Then move up to small bumps and get used the skis again.  You might avoid going into the trees or more difficult terrain until you feel really comfortable in easier conditions.

For what its worth, Rossi and EpicSki are having a contest where you could win some new boots or skis. Haha, try for getting some new gear.

http://www.epicski.com/t/107412/rossignol-wants-to-hear-your-story-enter-for-a-chance-to-win-rossignol-skis-or-boots

Just because people tell you that you should like these skis, that doesn't mean you will nor does it mean you have to like them.  I demoed some Rossi S7s last season and the rep and several other people kept telling me "you are gonna love this ski."  I like skiing powder and trees and bumps.  For me it was the worst ski I've ever been on.  They were barely OK in powder, horrid in the bumps and I was afraid to take them into the trees because I never felt like I was controlling them.  After two runs all I wanted was to get back on my Shamans.  No single ski is going suit every person who takes them for a ride.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cereal83 


I checked and there is the line on my boot and I have confirmed it is pretty much aligned with the center line out of the 7 lines on the ski. Thanks I never knew there was a line on the boot.
Yeah I went with a 194 because people suggested it and know more then me. I think I just need more time on them rather then thinking of selling them after 6 hours of skiing on a ran out mountain. The snow was hard and brutal that day except for when I went into the powder but that was out of boundaries a bit.
Ya I will see in 4 days weather or not I can adjust to them.
I am not anal about mount point and never even knew you could mount skis forward or back. Up until now, I just skied whatever gear was available and never cared. This is the first year I researched skis and tried to find out more of the technical side.
I am not getting defensive but if the next 10 posts after I said I did visit a bootfitter, people are telling me to go see a bootfitter, I am like wtf in my head. I am here to learn and thats why I posted this thread. I just wanna know all that I can and get the opinions of other more serious skiers
The issue might be in my head but when I was buying the skis, I was like it seems a little long but these people know more then me so I will go for it. As soon as I did my first few turns, I noticed a huge difference from my last skis. It was physically draining to make this skis turn and in the trees I was so sore because the skis were just so heavy and hard to turn. Now after this thread it seems like it was because of my stance and so this weekend I will work on that and see if it gets better. I said my old skis are too short by your standards as people always suggest long skis here and I have little technical knowledge so I say "you guys" .
I will be sticking to the blues and smooth groomed runs till I learn more about the ski. I am hoping for some softer snow as last weekend, the mountain was super busy the day before and then they did not groom as it was a sneak peak weekend. I will take it slowly and I have some lesson for 2 weeks from now with a group of "advanced" skiers and the instructor explained to me today that we will be on black runs mostly learning advanced technique. Its 4 lessons that lasts 2 hours each lesson and only 6 people in the group so I think this is a good start.
Thanks all for your comments again. I am learning and am reading all your thread even if I don't reply to your specific post! Hopefully I take what I learned this weekend and see what my weaknesses are. I usually only ski 4-6 days a year while in the east but I am hoping to ski every holiday and weekend until the mountain closes. Night skiing is dedicated to me getting better at boarding as only a small section of the hill is open after 4pm.

I'm not sure how much geography has influenced your adjectives, but if you are skiing a rockered ski on hard snow with the tips off the snow, that could be part 1 of the problem.

Part 2 is trying to turn those hard heavy skis.  Stop trying to turn them and just tip them onto their edges and they will turn themselves, and turn even more if you bend them into a bit more of a curve.

I usually only ski 4-6 days a year while in the east but I am hoping to ski every holiday and weekend until the mountain closes. Night skiing is dedicated to me getting better at boarding as only a small section of the hill is open after 4pm.

<<<<<<

There is your problem. You only ski 4-6 days a year and you are on some massive skis which are way wider and way longer than anything you have ever skiied.

You just need lessons and time or sell the skis and get something more manageable, like 180-185 length. When you over-represent the type of skiier you are, you will get advice that puts you on the wrong gear. Here on epic and tgr, people try to put people on longer gear rather than shorter, unless you are experienced or have sound fundamentals, long skis skied from the backseat is very very difficult because you have so much more tail to "get stuck".

Get rid of em, and get something approriate or rent something shorter for the season while you learn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shawea 

For what its worth, Rossi and EpicSki are having a contest where you could win some new boots or skis. Haha, try for getting some new gear.

http://www.epicski.com/t/107412/rossignol-wants-to-hear-your-story-enter-for-a-chance-to-win-rossignol-skis-or-boots

This would be a great way to add to the quiver so you have a complimentary ski to go with the Gotama.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cereal83  I usually only ski 4-6 days a year while in the east but I am hoping to ski every holiday and weekend until the mountain closes. Night skiing is dedicated to me getting better at boarding as only a small section of the hill is open after 4pm.

Funny how we keep getting these revelations. OK, look: If you're a boarder who until now only skis 4-6 days a year, then I'm gonna have to rethink what I recommended earlier. Jumping onto a moderately wide powder ski in the 190's and expecting to handle trees, let alone icy trees, is, ah, not wise. Will get you a nice ride to the ER. In fact, I'm wondering if you wouldn't be happier either setting the Goats aside for a while, or selling/exchanging them, and either way concentrating on taking lessons, using a ski in the 88-98 mm range, 180's length, and just enjoying the sport instead of trying to conquer the gear. This may be a gear freak forum, but the subtext is that skiing is supposed to be fun, not .

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  (And am concerned because the S7's are on my "short list" to demo.)  There have been many skis over the years that people gushed about and I "didn't get" or even hated so much I was in snit by the bottom of one run.  
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtcyclist 

Just because people tell you that you should like these skis, that doesn't mean you will nor does it mean you have to like them.  I demoed some Rossi S7s last season and the rep and several other people kept telling me "you are gonna love this ski."  I like skiing powder and trees and bumps.  For me it was the worst ski I've ever been on.  They were barely OK in powder, horrid in the bumps and I was afraid to take them into the trees because I never felt like I was controlling them.  After two runs all I wanted was to get back on my Shamans.  No single ski is going suit every person who takes them for a ride.

The truth comes out...YOU CAN'T SKI!!.....4-6 days a year....give it up.. that's visiting the mountains not skiing them....go get some intermediate boards you can actually handle... get more lessons and and humble yourself....Big mtn skis are for people who know what up and have spent time( alot) learning....I real experienced skier can still ski anything on any kind of ski and make it look easy...Today's tech have just made it easier.... 

The 194 Gotama is a big freakin ski that needs a very skilled driver. No offense intended. It is no S7, Bentchetler, etc. I loved the old pre-rockered Gotamas but found the newer design less than ideal - sold mine after only a few days last season. Yes I lost $300 on the transaction but I didn't waste my season skiing a ski I did not like.  Life is too short.  One of my friends who is 6', a former racer with stunning old-school style, skis the 194 Goat. He claims it's not too long but I can see he is working hard ALL the time, even in deep cat skiing snow.

I hate to say it, but I think it is the wrong ski for you. If you only get to ski a dozen times a year, each day is precious. There are so many skis that would be better suited for you - take your losses and get something you love.

The smart guys on this Board can direct you to the right ski but I recommend you go demo something like an S7 (as big as you can get) to start. I don't have a pair but that seems to be the Honda Civic of Whistler these days for advanced intermediates. That and the S3 seem to be ubiquitous.

With respect to technique, with the right ski and some dry fluffy pow, your deep snow skills will progress dramatically. 

Have fun!

Unless it's icy, i can carve on my s7's like a slalom ski.  They also suck in the bumps, but who buys a tip/tail rockered powder ski for bumps?  If you want a ski that floats extremely well in powder and can still carve well on the non-icy groomers then an S7 is good for you.  Also remember that the S7 has a big tip/tail rocker so they ski very short on hard pack.  I'm 185lbs 6'0" and i have last years 188cm.  Freaking love this ski.  You might want to try a demo though, cause some people hate the S7.

Interesting thread...

While not my ski of choice these days, the recent fully reverse camber goats and the current rockered goats are better than lots of people give them credit for being. Interestingly, they are solid "all mountain" skis and handle firm snow well. And IMO they are "OK" but not great powder skis. In other words a good "daily driver" in the west. A few thoughts - which may echo a few earlier posts.

The 194 is not "too big. But it is likely bigger than you need. Having skied on the 194 a bunch, the extra length offers - literally - nothing over the 186 on firm snow and probably little in powder given the shape. If I had to do it again, I'd have gone down a size. However, at 240, it is not unduly out of line for you.

Think "center". And be sure to manage the edges of both skis concurrently and "similarly". You can engage your edges from the middle & grow a big effective edge. But it is not reasonable to "drive the tips" on a ski like this - as the tips are in the air on firm snow. It is all about rolling them and being pretty centered - maybe think in terms of driving through your toes... OTOH, that ski lets you know quickly if you are too far back... The "zero" mount is very reasonable.

I'd be very careful about lessons on any modern ski. The vast majority of instructors out there have little or no time on modern skis (aka fully rockered) and IMO push basic training that then needs to be at least partially unwound in the skis you'll really want to ski. I know I'm a bit contrarian on this - but there is no way I'd pay a dime for instruction from someone who does not use modern rockered skis day to day. So shop carefully.

You may or may not end up liking these skis. But it'll pay to understand them. Especially as most of the other modern rockered skis want roughly similar technique to perform optimally.

Don't forget to thank the ski shops that you pimped for information so that you can buy on-line. If everyone did that you would no longer have any shops left to get the info from.

Wow, funny how the story evolved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cereal83 


Well I went to the local shop here to talk to them about demoing skis and they happened to have a new S7 in 178 and 188 with a FKS 140 binding for $900 out the door. I asked if I could demo them if I wanted in a few weeks and he said I can't as these are the last two S7's they have so I talked to him about it about my problem and maybe about picking these up. First off he said this ski can handle groomers but it's a pretty specific pow ski and isn't gonna do good unless there is soft snow and since my local mountain is north facing, sometimes a week or so can go by without any new snow and these days would be rough. He also said my current ski is a good ski but you need to be charging on it alot because they are so stiff. They don't like it when you go slow due to the stiffness as it will throw me around.
He said if I did go with the 188, it's not going to much much length difference except the rocker is going to make it seem like alot shorter of a ski but it's still only 6 cm shorter then my current ski but said it was a good length for me and the 178 was way to short for me.
Maybe I should just grab these? Looking online, these skis are about $150 cheaper then anywhere else around here for the same thing. Everybody seems to love them but I dunno. I am just not sure.
 

Go with a 188cm if you do get an S7/Super 7.  The rocker will shorten the ski a lot on the groomer.  There are 2 different models for 2012, S7 and Super 7, they both come in 188cm but the super 7 has a layer of metal in it to make it stiffer for the bigger guys.  Last years model Super 7 didn't come in 188cm just 195cm.  Everyone reacts differently to the S7 shape, that's why I recommend you Demo them.  Personally i fell in love with my S7 and pretty much used it 95% of the time last season, even with little new snow because there's always powder in the tree's somewhere.

As for groomers, you don't need soft snow, they carve alright on hard pack...you might slide around though.  If you do manage to get soft snow, you'll be carving like pretty much anyone else on the mountain with carving skis.  Which makes this a great Spring ski, just not in the morning when everything refreezes.

It's a great ski, the best ski I've ever owned.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cereal83 


Yup I am aware of the S7 and Super 7. I don't think I would be going with the Super 7 and I think it will be too stiff for me. I will be renting them one day but the local mountain hasn't received them yet so I am gonna wait. Just looks super fat and the spoon tip is super fat too. Oh well I shall see.
Tomorrow I will be at the hill at 9am to test out the Gotamas again so I am excited!

You really should go with the Super 7 though.  I'm 185lbs 2010/2011 188cm and i find them a tad soft, and like to get pushed around by choppy snow. if they would have had a 188cm Super 7 last season I would have gotten it. 

Here's the real question:

Do you want a "one ski quiver"?

Do you want a ski that will be great off piste?

Do you want a ski that will be great on groomers?

Do you want a ski that will rip big powder?

IMHO you are asking one ski to do a lot without the ability to make the ski your b!tch.

Ideally you want a daily driver and a ski for deep snow.  Both of which should be good for your ability and size.  

And, don't be too afraid to take a lesson.  With a good instructor and an open mind, you'll be amazed at how much more you'll get out of the whole mountain and your skis.

For starters, the Gotama is not a particularly forgiving ski and you got it too long.

Go with something that is a bit narrower and more forgiving, like a Rossignol Experience 98, Dynasar Sultan 94, Blizzard Bonafide, Salomon Sentinel.........

Then get a ski like the DPS Wailer 112 or S7 for deep powder days.

Trust me when I say, you'll have more fun!!

Go get a ski you can really enjoy and then make that snow your B!tch!

Cereal83 I can relate to your situation. Here's what I went through and I think you are in the same thing, but with a double whammy of really long new skis. I skied on the East Coast all my life (6'4", 240 lbs) and could ski double black diamonds comfortably and felt I was an "expert" level skier. I then went to Europe and skied some very light powder and struggled a bit. Then went to Alta for a week in deep powder, not so light, and found I couldn't ski the first day and struggled. I didn't complicate my life with new skis like you did. What I realized (had friends with really good technique and opinions) was I always drove my skis through turns back East on packed snow. I did carve with edges, but most of my turn technique was unweighting and driving (twisting) my skis then resetting the edges. Anyway, I quickly found that doesn't work in deep snow. So I spent the week figuring out what technique works in powder and the deal is I found you have to roll your knees and put the ski on edge (but the edges don't make it turn, like on hardpack) and let the shape of the ski and the flex of the ski create the turn. The skis are more like surfing the snow, than like a hockey skate digging into the surface. The other thing was I had to purposely lean back and forward until I found the proper weighting. I wasn't bending at the waist so much as moving my feet under me and feeling the front or back of my boot with my shins. The other factor is speed, and weighting, unweighting. I found you had to have some speed in the deep or your skis didn't turn for beans. You also hit a max speed in the deep and if you can handle it, that is where you ski. Once you get dialed in, it is way different technique than East hardpack and your skis never slide out from under you (loose an edge like on ice) so you can safely ski much faster than back East. Once adjusted to this, then its time to consider if the ski is your friend or foe?

Your skis are obviously your foe right now, but it doesn't sound like its all the ski to me. I learned to ski powder on 205 cm SL racing skis (67mm width) and once dialed in I felt totally comfortably on them. I know a "powder ski" makes it a whole lot more enjoyable, but they don't work on Eastern hardpack. Btw, at your weight, don't ever expect to see your skis once the snow gets over a foot deep. At our weight, we sink no matter what ski. I have not tried the super wides yet, but I doubt I will ever "float" on top of the snow. I would need a snow board for that.

A shorter more forgiving ski will make your first year out west more enjoyable. By the end of the year your 194's will probably be perfect for you. My advice is ski them half a dozen times, starting on blues to get the feel for what makes them turn (similar to other's advice) and then work your way up to where you want to be. If you don't feel comfortable after that, get a cheap pair of shorter, easier skis to progress on. If you can afford a second pair go for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cereal83 


still hard as hell to make turns I assume because i am new to powder but again the ski felt heavy.
 

Saw the video too.  You're doing it wrong.  If you refuse to give up your old technique of twisting the skis, you would be better off with shorter skis. When I encountered deep snow, I was renting 215-220 cm gs skis.  I weighed 145 lbs.  There is no way I would have been able to twist them though the deep wet snow on Mt. Washington, not having learned to porpoise in and out of the snow like the expert powder skiers did, and of course I knew too much to take a lesson.  

I don't know who that woman is who saw you ski, but I will assume she can see that you are not in the back seat.  I'm still surprised if she has taught so much that she couldn't tell from your body actions how you were trying to turn your skis.  Has she seen this video?

PS if you get your skis up on too high an angle in the deep, they will sink to China, but there is a happy medium, and  just like a plane can loose a bit of altitude when turning and regain it, so can you.  Tip those skis a bit more and STOP twisting them.  "Driving the skis" does not mean twisting them like Chubby Checker!