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Weight shift, turn initiation, and slight backstep

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 

Hi everyone,

 

I have been geeking out here with our WROD only open.  My friends are almost all too proud to ski the groomers, and wait to even get their pass pic taken until the upper chairs are spinning.

 

Taking advantage, I have been drilling by turning quickly within the fall line varying the width between shoulders and a single cat groomer lane.  

 

I searched for threads addressing this topic, but have not seen anything that resembles my ideas.   The closest is the effective transitions thread, but the minutia of the details, and upper body movements were not what I'm talking about, so apologies if this topic has been addressed already.

 

With only a double green available, my drills show how the weight shift can happen in many ways, especially when the turns are only a fraction of an arc before the next withing a shoulder width.  I'm talking big radius turns at 3 and 9 o'clock and transitioning to the next before the feet reach 4 or 8 o'clock.

 

I tip my ankles in the boots for the quickest and powerful change, but being of the older set, I also tried relaxing the active leg, the new leg automatically takes over letting the ski do the work my ankles did before.  These transitions are done at a slower deliberate pace, the logic going that expert skiers flying down the hill do not move quickly but smoothly and patiently.  Kids slamming hockey stop turns in a skier X wannabe style is not expert skiing IMO.

 

As part of the relax to shift weight move, my buddy suggested a subtle backstep to put the new edge down easier.

 

Well it worked like a big dog, and taking his tip to extremes, I found myself doing faux tele turns with my heel down.  The heel locked down puts pressure on the boot front, thus more pressure on the front of the uphill ski.  This effectively leaves the same pressure on the downhill ski while the uphill edge of the inside ski tightens the radius in an infinitely variable way.

 

I feel like a monster now, carving two slightly different radii simultaneously, changing the radius with very slight changes on how far back I bring the uphill ski.

 

When I describe this whacky technique to fellow chair riders, they understandably declare me insane.

 

One qualifying statement is my skis.  My sole pair of boards are some ON3P Billygoats, the original with a 90mm tail.  The design is terrible for traditional groomer performance, but when taken creatively they are most excellent fun.

 

These boards are almost magnetic how they repel each other when close together.  Upon the rare instance of the tips, or tails overlapping, it is a simple escape by putting all the pressure on the downhill ski so I cannot recommend this whacky move on skis with any tail shape at all.

 

Any fellow edge geeks discover this new schoolish technique?

 

 

post #2 of 9

God we need snow. Badly.

post #3 of 9

I relate to the point about skis repelling each other. I've just had the one day on TST 183 and in real crap conditions they did not cross once ??


I am unsure if I correctly understand the backstep - Is that like almost a walking effect as you go from edge to edge, with the new outside leg shifted backwards?

 

Apologies if I am being dense here eek.gif

 

Quote:

One qualifying statement is my skis. My sole pair of boards are some ON3P Billygoats, the original with a 90mm tail. The design is terrible for traditional groomer performance, but when taken creatively they are most excellent fun.

 

These boards are almost magnetic how they repel each other when close together. Upon the rare instance of the tips, or tails overlapping, it is a simple escape by putting all the pressure on the downhill ski so I cannot recommend this whacky move on skis with any tail shape at all.


 

 

post #4 of 9

You seem to be describing "pulling the inside foot back".  Old school instructors/coaches have been talking about that since skiing more "two footed" was first made popular by Tomba in 80s.  It really became soup de jour in the early 90s with the introduction of shape skis. 

 

Love your handle by the way! Buttinski! Classic.icon14.gif

post #5 of 9
Thread Starter 

Exactly Baldrick,  like walking kind of backwards, think roller skates, or a bicycle.

 

I think Buttinski is from Caddyshack or some other campy movie from the 70s.

post #6 of 9

Just don't turn the name around backwards - That would make everyone uncomfortable, especially you. eek.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post

 

 

I think Buttinski is from Caddyshack or some other campy movie from the 70s.



 

post #7 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buttinski View Post

Hi everyone,

 

I have been geeking out here with our WROD only open.  My friends are almost all too proud to ski the groomers, and wait to even get their pass pic taken until the upper chairs are spinning.

 

Taking advantage, I have been drilling by turning quickly within the fall line varying the width between shoulders and a single cat groomer lane.  

 

I searched for threads addressing this topic, but have not seen anything that resembles my ideas.   The closest is the effective transitions thread, but the minutia of the details, and upper body movements were not what I'm talking about, so apologies if this topic has been addressed already.

 

With only a double green available, my drills show how the weight shift can happen in many ways, especially when the turns are only a fraction of an arc before the next withing a shoulder width.  I'm talking big radius turns at 3 and 9 o'clock and transitioning to the next before the feet reach 4 or 8 o'clock.

 

I tip my ankles in the boots for the quickest and powerful change, but being of the older set, I also tried relaxing the active leg, the new leg automatically takes over letting the ski do the work my ankles did before.  These transitions are done at a slower deliberate pace, the logic going that expert skiers flying down the hill do not move quickly but smoothly and patiently.  Kids slamming hockey stop turns in a skier X wannabe style is not expert skiing IMO.

 

As part of the relax to shift weight move, my buddy suggested a subtle backstep to put the new edge down easier.

 

Well it worked like a big dog, and taking his tip to extremes, I found myself doing faux tele turns with my heel down.  The heel locked down puts pressure on the boot front, thus more pressure on the front of the uphill ski.  This effectively leaves the same pressure on the downhill ski while the uphill edge of the inside ski tightens the radius in an infinitely variable way.

 

I feel like a monster now, carving two slightly different radii simultaneously, changing the radius with very slight changes on how far back I bring the uphill ski.

 

When I describe this whacky technique to fellow chair riders, they understandably declare me insane.

 

One qualifying statement is my skis.  My sole pair of boards are some ON3P Billygoats, the original with a 90mm tail.  The design is terrible for traditional groomer performance, but when taken creatively they are most excellent fun.

 

These boards are almost magnetic how they repel each other when close together.  Upon the rare instance of the tips, or tails overlapping, it is a simple escape by putting all the pressure on the downhill ski so I cannot recommend this whacky move on skis with any tail shape at all.

 

Any fellow edge geeks discover this new schoolish technique?

 

 




luckly since I am fleunt in Bushwackese, I can understand this.

 

does this explain what your doing?

 

 

post #8 of 9

"pull your feet back" was the defining moment in my skiing. It's what took me from a little bit of tail gunning, a little bit out of control in the double blacks. To  confident, comfortable, in control almost always.

post #9 of 9

Hey Buttinski, I'm not sure if you are describing the "phantom move" or not, but I think you are.

 

Try this.

 

At the bottom of the turn, or at the turn finish that is synced with your pole plant, drive your uphill heel down and forward, kind of a snap.  This will generate a firm edge set and propel you into the float stage of the turn.  Then almost instantly pull you downhill ski (soon to be you new uphill ski) back and invert your downhill ankle slightly, you'll be floating weightlessly here and  roll onto it's  little toe edge (LTE) while rolling your ankle of the old uphill ski onto it's new edge.  Your new downhill edge with almost automatically hook up into a powerful carve.

 

I call this turn a Quick Carved Turn or QCT, do a search for more info, there are a few videos posted by me and CVJ.

 

BTW, this series of movements are almost identical only executed slower when making larger GS carved turns.  It is amazing how positively the new downhill ski hooks up and carves.

 

Have fun, but be careful.  When making short turns on the edge of the groomed, when you drive the inside ski down and forward, you may get thrown as this move generates quite a bit of power that needs to be harnessed.

 

We are in need of snow here to, but the SV snowmaking system has us skiing "real" runs and we've even got some small bumps and lots of jumps. :)

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