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post #31 of 59

I know everyones been concerned about this and has been waiting all season for me to post about my results using Dominator Wax once I started following the instructions.

 

It was the easiest season of waxing with the best results (results is good glide and not race results).  I used Bullet on the cold days and when in doubt, went with Bullet.  Worked great and when compared to other cold waxes, is very easy to use.  Didn't get brittle like Toko blue did.  I used to get good results with toko blue but Dominator Bullet is easier to use with as far as I can tell, the same results.

 

As Tom pointed out to me, waiting for the wax to finish curing is key as is using the correct wax.

 

I would also add that most of us, me included only need to use the Zoom series.  I did do beer league and weekend and could tell the difference with Bullet.  I also let a race buddy borrow my beloved race skis one night (his binding broke) and he was very impressed with the glide.

 

I know this thread isn't really about Dominator wax but this is the thread I originally high jacked to discuss it so I figured I should post the results here.

 

Bottom line is Dominator has made me a fan and until something else changes, I'll keep using it.

 

I know that there are plenty of other waxes out there that will deliver impressive results as well.  One of the things I have learned (and ties back to the OP) is that things work best if you develop a process and have a recipe that works for you.  If you keep changing the ingredients, you'll probably get different results.

 

I happy with the product & the deals I've gotten on the product and the customer service has been top notch. 

 

YMMV,

Ken

post #32 of 59

Interested to know if you've tried Dom Psycho. 

post #33 of 59

No.  I've used:

 

Renew Zoom

Renew Race

Zoom Graphite

Zoom

Race Zoom New

Race Zoom Old

Bullet New

Bullet Old

 

post #34 of 59

I know nothing about Dominator waxes, so more info is better. 

 

  Would you be willing to share the conditions in which you've noticed fails amongst the above list?

 

post #35 of 59

It's all I've used for years. And both my boys raced on it!

 

Thier claim to fame has been their All Temperature Zoom and Race Zoom (New Snow and Old Snow formulas) as well as the Base Renew Graphite for Black bases and Base Renew for clear bases in addition to the Q6 (for racing only, really spendy!)overlay.

 

Seldomly cold enough here to use the really cold stuff!

post #36 of 59

 My wax a Swix Moly Fluoro worked terrifically all winter but when I assessed I found that it is not necessarily a universal wax. At least in the mid-Atlantic, this winter did not have the conditions that I usually find create difficult waxing tests: we had consistent moderate temps. at, a little above, a little below freezing during the day; at or somewhat below freezing at night; no new snow to speak of.  I think I am going to try the Zooms next winter but I hope we will get more diverse conditions to give them a good test.

post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post

No.  I've used:

 

Renew Zoom

Renew Race

Zoom Graphite

Zoom

Race Zoom New

Race Zoom Old

Bullet New

Bullet Old

 


 



Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

I know nothing about Dominator waxes, so more info is better. 

 

  Would you be willing to share the conditions in which you've noticed fails amongst the above list?

 

 

The only "fail" I had was last season and it was operator head space.  I was using the Zoom line and comparing it to the results I would get using Toko black (moly) with Toko blue (cold) on top.  I noticed last season I didn't have the glide I did on the toko on cold nights racing.  Once I was re-calibrated I used Bullet on those nights and it worked splendidly.

 

My other issue last season was not letting the skis sit long enough after using a soft wax like the zoom series.  I had always thought that 30 minutes or so was good enough.  For the softer waxes, at least the Dominator ones, it's closer to 1.5 hours or more.  There is a chart to follow at their site http://www.dominatorwax.com/base-prep.html  I've found it best to read everything there to find all the info.  Just didn't seem to be in places I would put it.

 

The ski just didn't look right after I brushed them.  No shine.  Kind of hazy.  Once I started letting them sit at least the prescribed time, the issue went away.  According to Dominator, the waxes need to anneal.  I just got in the habit of waxing at night and scraping and brushing in the morning.

 

Another thing I learned talking to them is that when you put a top coat on top of a different wax, you get blended results.  So if you have a warm soft wax and then top coat with a cold wax, what you end up with is a warm wax plus or a cold wax minus.  This doesn't matter on the brand of wax.   This is one of those things that if someone asked me I could probably answer correctly, but I never gave it a thought.  I only bring it up as it is something to consider when you are trying to achieve certain results.

 

I'm not sure I answered you question as you asked it.

 

Ken

 

 

 


 

 

 

post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post


 

 

The only "fail" I had was last season and it was operator head space.  I was using the Zoom line and comparing it to the results I would get using Toko black (moly) with Toko blue (cold) on top.  I noticed last season I didn't have the glide I did on the toko on cold nights racing.  Once I was re-calibrated I used Bullet on those nights and it worked splendidly.

 

My other issue last season was not letting the skis sit long enough after using a soft wax like the zoom series.  I had always thought that 30 minutes or so was good enough.  For the softer waxes, at least the Dominator ones, it's closer to 1.5 hours or more.  There is a chart to follow at their site http://www.dominatorwax.com/base-prep.html  I've found it best to read everything there to find all the info.  Just didn't seem to be in places I would put it.

 

The ski just didn't look right after I brushed them.  No shine.  Kind of hazy.  Once I started letting them sit at least the prescribed time, the issue went away.  According to Dominator, the waxes need to anneal.  I just got in the habit of waxing at night and scraping and brushing in the morning.

 

Another thing I learned talking to them is that when you put a top coat on top of a different wax, you get blended results.  So if you have a warm soft wax and then top coat with a cold wax, what you end up with is a warm wax plus or a cold wax minus.  This doesn't matter on the brand of wax.   This is one of those things that if someone asked me I could probably answer correctly, but I never gave it a thought.  I only bring it up as it is something to consider when you are trying to achieve certain results.

 

I'm not sure I answered you question as you asked it.

 

Ken

 

 

 


 

 

 


Ken, I am not sure if this holds completely if you wax scrape and brush and then put a different layer on top?  Fair chance i am wrong (smile.gif) but I was under the impression that you could do it this way. 

 

On another topic, this has been a strange winter here.  Despite (or because of?) the lack of snow I have been consistently waxing colder than i would typically.  Have used a whole lot more Holmenkol Ultra than normally and it has proven faster than I would have expected.  Several race days it has paid off when i thought initially I had gone too cold.

 

Other discovery (now that the weather is getting warmer) is using Holmenkol fluoro mix as the base layer on my race skls then a layer of Ultra/beta/alpha as appropriate on top.

 

post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotsSkier View Post


Ken, I am not sure if this holds completely if you wax scrape and brush and then put a different layer on top?  Fair chance i am wrong (smile.gif) but I was under the impression that you could do it this way. 

 

On another topic, this has been a strange winter here.  Despite (or because of?) the lack of snow I have been consistently waxing colder than i would typically.  Have used a whole lot more Holmenkol Ultra than normally and it has proven faster than I would have expected.  Several race days it has paid off when i thought initially I had gone too cold.

 

Other discovery (now that the weather is getting warmer) is using Holmenkol fluoro mix as the base layer on my race skls then a layer of Ultra/beta/alpha as appropriate on top.

 


Ray,

It stands to reason that it is on a linear scale.  The less left behind from each waxing is the less left to mix with the next waxing.  Otherwise everyone would have to do their base prep with the wax of the day.

 

I'm sure there is a way to figure out at what point does which wax become prominent.  I would venture as you stated, after a thorough scrape and brush you would get different results than after a scrape and brush when I know it isn't the final brushing.

 

In my head its like boxing a compass.  If soft wax is south and cold is north and east and west are blends (i.e. 50/50 would be east).  On cold days you want more north than south but it might be difficult to get to "0 deg north" if you've been south.  ENE or even NE shouldn't be a problem.  Not sure how accurate that analogy is but you get the idea.

 

Thankfully I have enough issues in my skiing that I can make up more time by improving technique than doing the math on wax biggrin.gif

 

Withe regards to waxing colder; when talking to Tom at Dominator, he agreed with my statement "When in doubt go cold and New".   New being their wax for more aggressive new snow.  The conversation was under the pretext that I'm a recreational skier messing around in nastar and not on the world cup.  It's good to keep things in perspective smile.gif

 

Ken

 

 

post #40 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post


 

 

The only "fail" I had was last season and it was operator head space.  I was using the Zoom line and comparing it to the results I would get using Toko black (moly) with Toko blue (cold) on top.  I noticed last season I didn't have the glide I did on the toko on cold nights racing.  Once I was re-calibrated I used Bullet on those nights and it worked splendidly.


 

Understood.

 

 

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post


My other issue last season was not letting the skis sit long enough after using a soft wax like the zoom series.  I had always thought that 30 minutes or so was good enough.  For the softer waxes, at least the Dominator ones, it's closer to 1.5 hours or more.  


 

 

Yes, I read about that above.    I am extremely curious as to what that means with respect to corking.    IOW, do high-pressure friction conditions affect the anneal time.     Question: how much harder does the wax get after heating and cold-set?     One of the reviews I have posted on here is of Zardoz Blue Solid - the wax gets a LOT harder when heated and cold-set - it gets significantly harder than  the wax block was when new in the box.

Quote:

 

Another thing I learned talking to them is that when you put a top coat on top of a different wax, you get blended results.  So if you have a warm soft wax and then top coat with a cold wax, what you end up with is a warm wax plus or a cold wax minus.  This doesn't matter on the brand of wax.   This is one of those things that if someone asked me I could probably answer correctly, but I never gave it a thought.  I only bring it up as it is something to consider when you are trying to achieve certain results.

 

I am sort of used to this from corking in the wax of the day, with the waxes I have now.  

post #41 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post


Ray,

It stands to reason that it is on a linear scale.  The less left behind from each waxing is the less left to mix with the next waxing.  Otherwise everyone would have to do their base prep with the wax of the day.

 

I'm sure there is a way to figure out at what point does which wax become prominent.  I would venture as you stated, after a thorough scrape and brush you would get different results than after a scrape and brush when I know it isn't the final brushing.

 

In my head its like boxing a compass.  If soft wax is south and cold is north and east and west are blends (i.e. 50/50 would be east).  On cold days you want more north than south but it might be difficult to get to "0 deg north" if you've been south.  ENE or even NE shouldn't be a problem.  Not sure how accurate that analogy is but you get the idea.

 

Thankfully I have enough issues in my skiing that I can make up more time by improving technique than doing the math on wax biggrin.gif

 

Withe regards to waxing colder; when talking to Tom at Dominator, he agreed with my statement "When in doubt go cold and New".   New being their wax for more aggressive new snow.  The conversation was under the pretext that I'm a recreational skier messing around in nastar and not on the world cup.  It's good to keep things in perspective smile.gif

 

Ken

 

 



Yeah, I don't claim to be a waxing expert either Ken, lots of trail and error but certainly erring on the cold side has worked for me this year.  The reason I was thinking about layering (and it is really more applicable to a speed ski) was to have a couple of progressive layers on the ski to allow for differing conditions top and bottom, not unlike an overlay in some ways except normally an overlay only helps for the first few gates.  As you say would depend on how thorough the brushing is (and I could be totally wrong on this).

 

Also as an interesting aside, we were doing some early morning runs on Super G skis a couple of weeks ago.  I had brushed, but not a full on race brushing.  It was interesting that by the second run, i could feel they were noticeably slower, not a huge difference but noticeable.  Reinforced the need for a top-up of some sorts if you are running back to back races

post #42 of 59

I used to also do the layering of waxes but there was a post a month or so ago from Thanos K from Dominator who was essentially saying that you don't get layers you get a mix (e.g.,  if you have a ch6 on that you've brushed etc. and then put a layer of ch 10 on top you don't get 2 layers you get something approximating ch 8 (for simplicity sake I omitted that there would be more of the 10 and less of the 6 so you may get more a 9). It is a shame that he is no longer active on Epic, it was nice to have someone who actually could provide data rather than opinions and guesses (i.e., me)

post #43 of 59

He's not?     Dang.    I had a real question for him too.   

post #44 of 59

He sent me a PM exchange with the Moderators here that had annoyed him and told me he had decided to discontinue posting. A huge loss to the forum in my view.

post #45 of 59

treinerth@aol.com  The Owner of Dominator email

 

Email Tom & ask him. Great Guy!

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

He's not?     Dang.    I had a real question for him too.   



 

post #46 of 59

Actually, as I understand it,  Tom Reinerth is the US distributor and Thanos Karydas is the Technical Director and owner at Dominator.

post #47 of 59


Probably true,  TK is a chemist who is the mastermind behind Dominator.

 

But tom is the US Distributor.

 

Somewhat splitting hairs, the good news is cantuna can get hold of Tom with questions!

 

I've spoken to him on a few occasions over the years.

 

Our race team's head coach is good friends with him and the team pretty much endorsed Dominator and we got a big discount when my boys were racing.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsirin View Post

Actually, as I understand it,  Tom Reinerth is the US distributor and Thanos Karydas is the Technical Director and owner at Dominator.



 

post #48 of 59

Yes, it is too bad Thanos Karydas has left, it seems a sponsor that advertises here, and sells an inferior wax, complained he was promoting Dominator wax.

He was NOT. This sponsor complained numerous times to the moderator. Vsirin has the PMs Thanos sent stating the incorrect nature of these unfair complaints.

We have all lost his wisdom, experience and knowledge...sorry to say. 

post #49 of 59

That is really unfair

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post

Yes, it is too bad Thanos Karydas has left, it seems a sponsor that advertises here, and sells an inferior wax, complained he was promoting Dominator wax.

He was NOT. This sponsor complained numerous times to the moderator. Vsirin has the PMs Thanos sent stating the incorrect nature of these unfair complaints.

We have all lost his wisdom, experience and knowledge...sorry to say. 



 

post #50 of 59

Well, supporters have lost the RaceWax discount, a wax I have been extremely happy with for years (apparently "inferior" stuff according to Racer), so there are losers on both sides.  I was totally unaware of this whole mess until I saw this thread as I've been too busy skiing to pay attention to this stuff.  

 

Still passing all my friends on the cat tracks...thanks to RaceWax...or maybe it's my supreme skill level.  

post #51 of 59

Ok, this has taken a a bad and certainly unintended turn, so here is an explanation: As many of you have noticed, there was pushback from a couple of forum members to my posts, evidently they perceived me as competition. The forum management in an attempt to maintain a pleasant atmosphere in the forum contacted me offering a seemingly reasonable suggestion to resolve the situation.  The decision to stop posting was my own. It seems that it is difficult for some to separate the person (me) from the brand (Dominator) and this may have put my posts in a different light. I joined the forum to learn and share information, not to promote my brand; for recreation, not marketing so this situation is uncomfortable and the vibe all wrong; hence my decision to stop posting.

 

Having said that, I have realized that Dominator should have representation here, but this is not my domain. Tom Reinerth, will shortly join (he may have already) the forum as a sponsor under the name "Dominator Tom" and he will represent the brand, something I never intended to do in this forum myself. By way of clarification, Tom is the owner of Podium Racing, a marketing company that distributes Dominator in North America. Tom has been a good friend and collaborator since day one and brings to the forum not only nearly two decades of Dominator knowledge, but also the decade of Salomon racing service he brought to Dominator and a number of Olympic games. Some of you have already dealt with him, I am very happy and not surprised to read the very positive comments. I am sure he will enjoy his time in the forum.

 

I strongly believe Epic is a valuable resource and I have made  new friends and learned new things here. As Sidhusky mentions, we don't want losers on both sides. I am taking only the good with me from this forum, and I truly hope that this unpleasant conflict does not continue; life is short and leisure time too limited to waste on pointless arguments.

 

Enjoy what is left of the spring.

post #52 of 59

Please stop mincing words, just say you're talking about me.

 

It has nothing to do with the forum as a whole & everything to do with business, so here's the plain truth:

 

  1. I didn't complain to a single moderator, ask them.
  2. I was paying thousands to advertise here but didn't see the point if other companies could promote their products for free.
  3. You can say he didn't promote all you want but he did tell people to go buy the wax and what companies to buy it from - Terry complained openly in the forum about the same issue as well - those posts by Terry and Thanos have been deleted apparently.
  4. I could care less what Thannos says about his products - it was all about fairness - I was paying & he wasn't and it just so happened that it coincided with the time for me to sign a new contract and I said no thanks.
  5. I have advised people to buy many products that I don't sell and I sell several brands of wax. Tagging this issue to wax is ridiculous. As a matter of fact I will be adding two more name brands next year for a total of 5 brands including my own. I sell hundreds of products and only a few dozen racewax waxes.
  6. Again, I spoke only to the company that I wrote the checks to, not the moderators. The first time a moderator wrote to me was after Thanos "left". If the company instructed the moderators to act, that is their business.

 

There, that's exactly what happened. If Thanos got some other story from the moderators or the wrong impression from moderators, it's not my doing.

 

As a result we decided to reevaluate our discount program & while we are happy to extend discounts to teams & clubs we decided to stop the forum discounts. Actually the program was being abused anyway as many non forum people were using the code.

 

If anyone is interested in a program - call me - I'll be happy to try and help you.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer View Post

Yes, it is too bad Thanos Karydas has left, it seems a sponsor that advertises here, and sells an inferior wax, complained he was promoting Dominator wax.

He was NOT. This sponsor complained numerous times to the moderator. Vsirin has the PMs Thanos sent stating the incorrect nature of these unfair complaints.

We have all lost his wisdom, experience and knowledge...sorry to say. 



 


Edited by Doctor D - 4/5/12 at 1:21pm
post #53 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor D View Post

Please stop mincing words, just say you're talking about me.

 

It has nothing to do with the forum as a whole & everything to do with business, so here's the plain truth:

 

  1. I didn't complain to a single moderator, ask them.
  2. I was paying thousands to advertise here but didn't see the point if other companies could promote their products for free.
  3. You can say he didn't promote all you want but he did tell people to go buy the wax and what companies to buy it from - Terry complained openly in the forum about the same issue as well - those posts by Terry and Thanos have been deleted apparently.
  4. I could care less what Thannos says about his products - it was all about fairness - I was paying & he wasn't and it just so happened that it coincided with the time for me to sign a new contract and I said no thanks.
  5. I have advised people to buy many products that I don't sell and I sell several brands of wax. Tagging this issue to wax is ridiculous. As a matter of fact I will be adding two more name brands next year for a total of 5 brands including my own. I sell hundreds of products and only a few dozen racewax waxes.
  6. Again, I spoke only to the company that I wrote the checks to, not the moderators. The first time a moderator wrote to me was after Thanos "left". If the company instructed the moderators to act, that is their business.

 

There, that's exactly what happened. If Thanos got some other story from the moderators or the wrong impression from moderators, it's not my doing.

 

As a result we decided to reevaluate our discount program & while we are happy to extend discounts to teams & clubs we decided to stop the forum discounts. Actually the program was being abused anyway as many non forum people were using the code.

 

If anyone is interested in a program - call me - I'll be happy to try and help you.

 

 



 




Marc, that is pretty close to what i suspected, and, as a neutral observer, (I principally use Holmenkol) I do agree with you that while Thanos provided a lot of useful information, there was also quite explicit promotion of his product.  From a commercial perspective i can fully understand the frustration this caused for both you and Terry as sponsors, particularly as you have both been very open and fair about recommending other products than those you supply.  In dealings with both of you you have been very upfront.  This is NOT to suggest that Thanos has been otherwise but there have been some posts which have recommended his own product without full disclosure.  I hope you will stay around here and i also look forward to having Thanos (and Tom?) but this time identified with their  commercial allegiances.  This allows the members to make a more balanced judgement.  We have had enough posts around viral marketing this year! smile.gif

 

It is certainly valuable to see the differing approaches and viewpoints from you,Terry and Thanos (and not to forget Primoz).  Like most I suspect I take bits from all of you and then incorporate into my own approach.  Waxing is a black art after all! 

post #54 of 59

Ray,

 

That was an excellent post!

 

All the dealings I have had with Marc have been pleasant, professional and he is certainly knowledgable. As a business owner, I can certainly understand his frustration.

 

Certainly seems unfair and shortsighted of Epic.

 

Marc,

Goof Luck to you!

 

A-M

post #55 of 59

I've edited my post for accuracy towards my original intent; getting past this and talking about ski tuning.  I should have stuck to the facts that "I" know or "my" opinion.  More time than not, these things are caused by a communication break down and not it appears I've added to it!  I even highlighted it so you know.  So:

 

 

So what have we learned from all this?

 

In Ken's opinion, Marc and Terry have always been great guys and have been very supportive of the forum and I have benefited from great deals, great info and great customer service from each of them.  I haven't had many dealings with Thanos but have enjoyed his posts and learned much from them.  He and I have pm'd here and there and he seems like a stand up guy.  I've already mentioned how much help Tom R has been to me in other posts and what great customer service I received from him.  I don't know that anyone knows the full story nor that it matters.  It is believed by some that Thanos has overstepped a virtual boundary between viral marketing, education, and passion for his work.  He doesn't seem like the type of person that hung out here to see if he could generate a few sales without paying for advertising to me.  When it was brought up, he stopped posting and worked a deal with the US Rep to become a sponsor.   That will put Dominator on equal footing with the other sponsors and the freedom to official plug there product (at least that is how I believe it to work).

 

Then there's the mods.  Their job sucks and there is no way everyone will ever be happy.  I have dealt with them on a few issues and all and all I've been as happy with all of them as I have with the folks mentioned above.  If I was a mod, this forum would be down to two or three people not banned and they would probably be family and probably on probation. 

 

We don't know everything that is going on and it probably doesn't matter in the greater scheme of things.  It sounds like everything has worked itself out, we can move on and with Dominator becoming a sponsor, hopefully Thanos can start participating too.

 

Here's to looking forward to spending the off season debating the value of sharpening a plexi scraper with a $200 tool over a piece of sandpaper.

 

Ken

 

Sorry for adding to the confusion.  This would be so much easier if we lived closer together and could go out for beers. 

 

Ken


Edited by L&AirC - 4/10/12 at 3:14am
post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
 It does appear that Thanos, in Ken's opinion, my have overstepped a virtual boundary between viral marketing, education, and passion for his work.  He doesn't seem like the type of person that hung out here to see if he could generate a few sales without paying for advertising. 
 

If you check the history of Thanos' postings, you will not find any that "overstepped a virtual boundary".
 

 

post #57 of 59

 

 

*shrug* If it's obscure enough or difficult enough of a question that I /need/ someone of TK's caliber to answer  - then I /fully/ expect them to speak from their area of expertise.  

 

 

 

The expertise carries the brand, I understood that from the get go.

 

 

 

post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsirin View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by L&AirC View Post
 It does appear that Thanos, in Ken's opinion, my have overstepped a virtual boundary between viral marketing, education, and passion for his work.  He doesn't seem like the type of person that hung out here to see if he could generate a few sales without paying for advertising. 
 

If you check the history of Thanos' postings, you will not find any that "overstepped a virtual boundary".
 

 



I should have worded that better.  I don't remember reading anything that overstepped it but one of the above threads said those posts were deleted.  I'm taking that posting as accurate as I have no reason not to.

 

The key point from that statement was that he doesn't seem like a person that would intentionally do it.

 

post #59 of 59

remind me not to buy anything from that creepy rat bastard ha ha

i use the cold wax always then wax of the day over seems to work for longevity

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