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Slickest wax from demo day in CO

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 

I was at the Loveland Demo Day last weekend, and skied the slickest ski in my life.   It was the armada JJ 185.   I own the ARV, but there was something seriously different about this ski.    It was like the Armada Rep's sprayed WD40 over the wax.    I could hardly stand still in the snow, without the ski sliding.    The rep said it was just a great tune, but I tried to press him for more answers.    

 

He said he lightly wet sanded the back (the grooves??) and used SWIX F7 cold wax.    Does cold wax make that much of a difference? Temperature was about 25 degrees outside, light snow, and a 0 degree wind chill.   

Next day, I was back on my ARV and it was like night and day.   I don't know what the Armada rep did to those JJ's, but I want to duplicate it.   LOL

 

Just curious if anybody else has used wet sand paper or cold wax, for some insane results on the slopes.   Perhaps they used some type of racer overlay wax, after each demo return.   

 

Thanks

 

post #2 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Barbour View Post

 

 

He said he lightly wet sanded the back (the grooves??) and used SWIX F7 cold wax.    Does cold wax make that much of a difference? Temperature was about 25 degrees outside, light snow, and a 0 degree wind chill.   



In fresh snow, in Colorado, cold wax makes a /huge/ difference.

post #3 of 13

Ive had my skis at that level, but only after a fresh base grind with all the fibers taken off, and cold wax, with all the base structure cleaned out very well, and of course, the right snow conditions.

post #4 of 13

Last year, and again this year BECAUSE of last year, here was my prep process:

 

Series of three wax and hot scrape with red wax, lots of brushing after the series, but each day soaking overnight

CH4 wax, hot scrape, sit, scrape again, brush

for one pair of skis red wax/scrape/brush the other green wax/scrape/brush as the final prep.  

 

Anyway, was coming down the cat track at the resort the first day out and not only PASSING everyone, but the darn skis were so slippery I was pulling over constantly just to SLOW down!!  I don't know how racers do it, seriously.  This was on a cat track that as the season wore on (and the CH4 was gradually a dimmer and dimmer memory) became totally skiable for me.  But, that first day, YIKES.  This was the pair of skis that had the red wax as the last coat.  

 

By the way, have not had the bases ground in a while and I discovered that even though I didn't (bad girl) put summer wax on, the skis looked FANTASTIC before I even started pre-season prep.  Probably because they were so well saturated by the end of last season getting tuned every 60,000 feet.  

 

post #5 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Barbour View Post
He said he lightly wet sanded the back (the grooves??) and used SWIX F7 cold wax.    Does cold wax make that much of a difference? Temperature was about 25 degrees outside, light snow, and a 0 degree wind chill. 


LF7 (low fluoro), HF7 (high fluoro) or FC7 (100% Fluorinated carbons)?

 

post #6 of 13

Whichever Swix 7 series wax it was, it is really a misnomer to call it a cold wax. It is right in the middle of the Swix line up and is supposed to be good from something like 18 to 28. I don;t know what the weather was but it might have been the right wax. The CH 4 Sibhusky refers to is a cold wax.

post #7 of 13

The OP's description reminded me of a friend who put some HF Maplus cold or medium on his junior daughter's skate skis for the first time.

 

She came back after training (and screaming on the down hills and slicker than snot at rest), shaken, she said sheepishly, "Dad.....these skis are scary fast......Don't wax them like that again!"

post #8 of 13

I race and have tried all sorts of waxes and combinations. My normal skis are much faster than most people's seem to be based on glide over flats mostly because, being in the east and racing/training, I seldom do 2 days before a wax and obsessive brush sequence. Every now and again we hit on a combination that is just perfect for the conditions and is just scary fast but I have never been able to replicate those results even if we do exactly the same thing the very next day.  I guess that is the difference between the WC techs and my husband and I.

post #9 of 13

I'm interested in this thread because last year when I went out to Colo. for a week my skis were stunningly slow. I tune / wax at least every other time I'm out on a pair of skis (every time, for races), and am normally more or less satisfied with the results, so I'm not a waxing newbie. But in Colorado, for the first time in recent memory, the wax job I arrived with at the hill truly sucked. It was like Velcro at about 15 F. (I can't remember what I applied before boarding the plane, but presumably it was something that has worked reasonably well for me over a wide range of cold-ish mid-winter temps here at sea level.) I am not hard core enough to have brought along a full tuning kit, so all I had was some Swix liquid stuff, a cork, and a finishing brush. The first night I used some of the coldest (blue) glop, with the requisite waiting, corking, and vigorous brushing, but next day still no joy. Air temps while I was there ranged from -20 F. to + 20 F., mostly in the 5 - 15 degree range. This year, what should I do before leaving home to give me the best chance of decent glide when I arrive?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

 

Series of three wax and hot scrape with red wax, lots of brushing after the series, but each day soaking overnight

CH4 wax, hot scrape, sit, scrape again, brush

for one pair of skis red wax/scrape/brush the other green wax/scrape/brush as the final prep.  

 

Sibhusky, have you been hanging out with BWPA recently? I REALLY want to understand this, but am having some trouble following, perhaps due to excessively sparse periods. ;)

 

I THINK what you may be saying is:

1) wax with "red" - hot scrape immediately - brush - re-wax - allow to sit overnight

2) scrape last night's wax, brush, then repeat #1 two more times (3 days elapsed time)

3) scrape last night's wax, brush, then wax with CH4 this time - hot scrape immediately - allow to sit - scrape again - brush

4) wax with "red" - hot scrape immediately - brush

 

To summarize: red - red - red - CH4 - red

 

Correct? This is for cold, sharp snow? Even with red as the last layer?

 

Now, can you say what "red" and "green" mean, very specifically (brand and "model")? Are we talking Swix CH8?

post #10 of 13

Sorry if I was confusing.  

 

1.  A hot scrape series with Toko red.  By series I mean wax-scapewhilewet-wax-scrapewhilewet-wax-scrapewhilewet, then let the "remains" soak in overnight.

2.  Swix CH4 (to provide extra protection during the season.  That stuff is like teflon.  First time I used it I FREAKED because I couldn't get the stuff off.  Then realized that it would LAST...)  Wax, let it cool a bit, warm scape, overnight.  Then lightly iron again and scrape and brush fairly thoroughly until it gleams, BUT I can still see that there is a lot of unremoved wax due to swirls as I move the ski around.  I don't care, though, because I know more wax is coming.  Structure appears open, but the swirls tell me there's still CH4 I didn't get off.  

3.  Depending on the expected weather, I then use Racewax hydrocarbon red or green because although I own Toko, my regard for it is lower than my regard for the Racewax.  But...a while back I bought the Toko in bulk and although per ounce I bet I paid more for it than the Racewax, I prefer the Racewax.  Since I started all this carrying on at the beginning of October so that I only worked ONE SKI and ONE step for each ski per day (so that I wasn't facing a mountain of work...scraping just exhausts me since I broke my wrists a few seasons back..) I clearly don't know what conditions will be, so I've got green on the wider skis and red on the narrower skis.  My theory is that if it's "warm" then I'll probably be on groomers and if the weather is cold, I'll probably be off piste or on powder.  When the season first starts then, I'll grab the right mix of wax and width from the locker, no worries.  

 

So..if you are talking wax colors for the colder set of skis, you've got TokoRed-TokoRed-TokoRed-SwixIceBlue(my CH4 is sort of pale blue-ish)-Racewaxgreen.  Remember the red was just for preseason cleaning.  During the season, I just use the Racewax green and don't repeat the Swix CH4 (I hate working with the stuff) unless I am starting to see base burn.  The fact that the CH4 is under there may be what gives me an "edge" over some of my buddies on super cold days, but if I've just been waxing the night before, the only thing I am using is Racewax green.

 

Every one has their "recipe", however.  Sometimes it's as much to do with your technique as with your wax.  I've never worried about the length of the wax trail for instance.  I found early on that worrying about that (how fast am I moving when I produce a trail 8 inches long...am I going too fast or too slow or the iron's too hot or ...if it's ten inches long..) was too confusing.  I just keep touching the underside (topsheets) of the skis as I wax, and keep the iron moving.  Once it feels a certain temp on my fingers I stop.  Then, close to 100% of the time the ski sits overnight.  That may change this coming season, though, as I plan to ski more days a week and there is no way I am arriving late at the hill because I've been scraping and brushing....  Which will mean I have to be more disciplined when I get home about immediately waxing so that it can sit until later in the evening.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

 

Series of three wax and hot scrape with red wax, lots of brushing after the series, but each day soaking overnight

CH4 wax, hot scrape, sit, scrape again, brush

for one pair of skis red wax/scrape/brush the other green wax/scrape/brush as the final prep.  

 

Sibhusky, have you been hanging out with BWPA recently? I REALLY want to understand this, but am having some trouble following, perhaps due to excessively sparse periods. ;)

 

I THINK what you may be saying is:

1) wax with "red" - hot scrape immediately - brush - re-wax - allow to sit overnight

2) scrape last night's wax, brush, then repeat #1 two more times (3 days elapsed time)

3) scrape last night's wax, brush, then wax with CH4 this time - hot scrape immediately - allow to sit - scrape again - brush

4) wax with "red" - hot scrape immediately - brush

 

To summarize: red - red - red - CH4 - red

 

Correct? This is for cold, sharp snow? Even with red as the last layer?

 

Now, can you say what "red" and "green" mean, very specifically (brand and "model")? Are we talking Swix CH8?



 

post #11 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post

This year, what should I do before leaving home to give me the best chance of decent glide when I arrive?


Briko-Maplus Race base Medium has never been 'slow' for me in Colorado, even when out of it's range. It's durable and could last a week long trip and can be tweaked if you feel the need. When super cold, it slows down, however.....that means it's time to do something else anyway. biggrin.gif

 

How fine was you base structure?

 

 

post #12 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post
TokoRed-TokoRed-TokoRed-SwixIceBlue(my CH4 is sort of pale blue-ish)-Racewaxgreen
 

 

Thanks for the response. That clears it up.

post #13 of 13


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord View Post


Briko-Maplus Race base Medium has never been 'slow' for me in Colorado, even when out of it's range. It's durable and could last a week long trip and can be tweaked if you feel the need. When super cold, it slows down, however.....that means it's time to do something else anyway. biggrin.gif

 

How fine was you base structure?

 

 


Okay. Thanks for the tip on wax.

 

My base structure was pretty fine by EC standards, but I don't know how to quantify that. It just so happened that I was due for my more-or-less annual grind a few weeks before the trip and I made a point of saying I was going out west and asked my shop to orient the structure more toward dry snow than they probably would normally do, with a slushy eastern spring only a month away.

 

As for the advice to do something else when it gets too cold, that makes total sense ... unless you are a lifelong New England skier on a rare and precious day in the Rockies. biggrin.gif

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