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Helmet thread plus Tebow thread equals....

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

 

(I'm sure this has something to do with ski helmets, too ...  At least trickle-down research?)

 

 

Old Leather Football Helmets More Efficient Than Modern Ones, Study Says

 

 

When it comes to protecting football players, old-fashioned leather helmets may work just as efficiently at preventing concussions as modern ones, according to a study from the Cleveland Clinic.

 

Dr. Adam Bartsch, lead author of the study, said the results raise a red flag.

 

“Knowing that a leather helmet and a modern helmet are sometimes comparable in those hits, that’s concerning for long-term impact for dosage accumulation, so many, many years of hits over a career, season, might cause long term damage,” Bartsch said.

 

During trials, researchers used test dummies wearing both leather helmets and modern-day helmets at simulated collisions with the speed and level of impact comparable to hits in college and high school football.

 

Results showed that the old leather helmets offered similar, or in some cases, better protection against head injuries than modern helmets.

 

However, Bartsch said this doesn’t mean that players should go back to wearing leather helmets. Instead, he thinks the current helmet designs need to be updated, because they are based on preventing skull fractures, not concussion.

 

“This is such an interesting finding that there actually may be a reason to examine helmet designs other than the current hard shell, with a face mask and really stiff interior padding, and also to examine how we’re testing these helmets,” he said.

 

The results were published in the Journal of Neurosurgery.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/11/04/old-leather-football-helmets-more-efficient-than-modern-ones-study-says/?intcmp=sem_outloud#ixzz1e56tNAGS

post #2 of 10

I dig it.

I was talking to a woman the other day about concussion research and "why the big push now" kind of came up.  I told her that I thought that Pro Athletes getting increasingly dinged has shown a spotlight on things.  When teams pay guys like Sidney Crosby megamoney, and they're incapacitated and have to sit, then they're moved to action.  Whatever the reason, I'm pretty happy that doctors are thinking about things like this and offering hypothesis'- even on leather vs new.  We've got to be willing to experiment to advance technology.

Thanks for posting this up.

PS- that freakin' Tebow just can't lose.

 

post #3 of 10

Mark Messier came out with a new helmet design in the last couple of years, the M11. After my daughter had a concussion we got her one. She of course had another one but very mild. Mouthguards are also incredibly important in risk reduction. In all of these sports, the ability to decrease concussion risk is tough because so much of it is related to the forces at play rather than just the impact. Particularly in hockey and football, where deceleration is forced by the head hitting the boards, or the ground, or another player. It usually isn't a shot to the head that does the damage, but a shot that causes an uncontrolled impact of the head into something else. Wear a helmet, wear a mouthguard, keep your head up. Protection only goes so far. Behavioral changes have to occur to really reduce the risk. 

post #4 of 10

Yeah, a few athletes with multi-million dollar deals having seasons and careers cut short can quickly increase the amount of money going into research like that.

 

I know when I was knocked out skiing 12 years ago the fact that it was a pretty server concussion and potentially issues from it was never even mentioned.

 

Of course the part about progressive give in a helmets construction isn't exactly new, it sort of just missed some areas.  Hard hat design in industrial use all have suspended linings and the benefits of that type of lining and more progressive give in construction seems to be well known but not really all that well implemented. 

post #5 of 10

what's a tebow?  th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #6 of 10

You do understand that the sudden deceleration or impact as some have called it, is the mechanism of injury.  But looking at protection features as some studies have shown, hard shells providing better protection is false.  The actual injury occurrs when your brain slams into the front or back of the inside of your skull. Your brain is floating in fluid and that space does provide limited protection from impact.  The helmet industry needs to look at automotive clumple zone  

engineering. The older, all-steel, solid-frame cars killed alot of people from the G forces being transmitted during the sudden deceleration directly into the passenger(s).  Newer cars do not have all solid frames and the engineers have placed crumple zones to absorb alot of energy, thus making them safer from sudden deceleration. Indy cars are the extreme example of how you can go 200-220 mph and impact something and possibly walk away. Motorcycle helmet design is another great example of technology looking to take a single impact and disperse the energy, their shells are not hard, they often crack, or fractured and their impact liners are designed to crack as well during the absorbtion process. Unfortunately technology costs money, their is a huge difference between a $29.99 helmet and one that costs a couple hundred dollars.

 

 

post #7 of 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by FETC2007 View Post

You do understand that the sudden deceleration or impact as some have called it, is the mechanism of injury.  But looking at protection features as some studies have shown, hard shells providing better protection is false.  The actual injury occurrs when your brain slams into the front or back of the inside of your skull. Your brain is floating in fluid and that space does provide limited protection from impact.  The helmet industry needs to look at automotive clumple zone  

engineering. The older, all-steel, solid-frame cars killed alot of people from the G forces being transmitted during the sudden deceleration directly into the passenger(s).  Newer cars do not have all solid frames and the engineers have placed crumple zones to absorb alot of energy, thus making them safer from sudden deceleration. Indy cars are the extreme example of how you can go 200-220 mph and impact something and possibly walk away. Motorcycle helmet design is another great example of technology looking to take a single impact and disperse the energy, their shells are not hard, they often crack, or fractured and their impact liners are designed to crack as well during the absorbtion process. Unfortunately technology costs money, their is a huge difference between a $29.99 helmet and one that costs a couple hundred dollars.

 

 


This is great in motorcycle, bicycle, and ski helmets.  But how would it work in football/hockey helmets?  You can't get a new helmet after every play/shift.

 

-Smarty
 

 

post #8 of 10

Well in theory in football it would only fracture and need to be replaces on a hit that would likely cause a concussion.  So your average player probably wouldn't need to replace the helmet even once a season.  Some positions might end up replacing one every game.  But I doubt a $200-400 helmet would be much of a problem for professional teams.  On a high school and college level though it wouldn't work very well.

 

Its been a long time since I wore a football helmet, but when I did they were pretty stiff and even the "foam" really didn't have much of anything for give.

 

I also do SCA and helmets and their padding is vital there.  Some people don't pay much attention to it but there are others that spend a lot of time on helmet padding.  Most people there suggest a thin layer of dense cell foam (or equivalent) with the majority of padding being softer, open cell foam.  The open cell foam gives a more progressive give and absorbs much of the impact so less is transferred to the head.  Really stiff foam doesn't do much because it doesn't give enough and transfers most of the energy to the head underneath.  Of course there the helmets are all steel so the shells don't deform on impact.  Also the open cell foam, because it does compress more, has to be replaced much more often.

post #9 of 10

I thought one function of the rigid shell was to prevent penetration my rocks, tree stumps, ice, etc.

 

I leather (or similar "soft") helmet might be great---even better---at absorbing energy, but the puncture/penetration by hard sharp objects might be a downside?

post #10 of 10

Multiple impact resistance is actually one of the Messier helmet features. It is a really tough thing though. The kids gain so much from participation in these sports but the head protection and the brain research is really just coming along and there is still a lot of confusion. Football isn't the same as hockey which isn't the same as soccer which isn't the same as high speed ski racing, etc and its hard to know what to do and how to monitor it all. Big uncertainty, big concerns, big business...

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