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How good a skier is good enough for ski patrol? - Page 3

post #61 of 103

C'mon - you know perfectly well there's way too much money at stake for that to ever be a real issue.  If some incident went down and a bunch of politicians setup some committee to review the distribution of these explosives, a few of the mega resort companies would just contribute to their campaigns and the committee would be dissolved immediately.  Ah, America.

 

Not that I disagree with your point that not properly training people to use explosives is highly irresponsible and pretty shocking.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunion View Post

Any area that is operating in the manner you described is risking all ski areas in the US.

 

Without access to high quality explosive products you would see a tremendous change in how all ski areas in the west operate and it would not be pretty.

 



 

post #62 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

C'mon - you know perfectly well there's way too much money at stake for that to ever be a real issue.  If some incident went down and a bunch of politicians setup some committee to review the distribution of these explosives, a few of the mega resort companies would just contribute to their campaigns and the committee would be dissolved immediately.  Ah, America.

 



 

 

And that is where you would be proven to be 100% wrong.

 

This doesn't come from politicians, this comes from the Explosives manufacturers or I should say, the Explosives manufacturer.

 

Currently there is one major manufacturer of explosives for avalanche control and a few minor players. Avalanche hazard reduction and the money involved from the ski industry is a pimple on the rear end of a fly in comparison to the other uses and we have been put on notice.

 

One accident with explosives products, and especially if the persons involved do not meet strict training requirements and we will no longer provide the products. That simple and I can assure you, they mean it.

 

I have no doubt in the world they mean it.

 

 

 

 

post #63 of 103

That may be true on a resort-by-resort basis, but the idea that one incident at some resort on the east coast is going to mean a resort thousands of miles across the country can't get explosives is a little ridiculous.  Again, too much money at stake here (and obviously I don't mean from purchasing explosives).  Some of the companies that own these resorts are huge with lots of influence - I assure you there's no way in hell they'd be cut off.  I also assume they make sure their employees are properly trained in munitions so it's a moot point.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunion View Post

 

And that is where you would be proven to be 100% wrong.

 

This doesn't come from politicians, this comes from the Explosives manufacturers or I should say, the Explosives manufacturer.

 

Currently there is one major manufacturer of explosives for avalanche control and a few minor players. Avalanche hazard reduction and the money involved from the ski industry is a pimple on the rear end of a fly in comparison to the other uses and we have been put on notice.

 

One accident with explosives products, and especially if the persons involved do not meet strict training requirements and we will no longer provide the products. That simple and I can assure you, they mean it.

 

I have no doubt in the world they mean it.

 

 

 

 



 

post #64 of 103

I guess I will try that, I already have number #1 and #10 down...... However, I am sure that unless you know someone who knows someone - things ain't going to happen.. That is how most of  Wenatchee operates and Mission isn't too far out. 

post #65 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

That may be true on a resort-by-resort basis, but the idea that one incident at some resort on the east coast is going to mean a resort thousands of miles across the country can't get explosives is a little ridiculous.  Again, too much money at stake here (and obviously I don't mean from purchasing explosives).  Some of the companies that own these resorts are huge with lots of influence - I assure you there's no way in hell they'd be cut off.  I also assume they make sure their employees are properly trained in munitions so it's a moot point.
 



 


Jay, you simply have no idea what you are talking about. This is what I do and how I have made my living for 27 years. What do you do within the ski industry?

 

While Boyne or CNL or Vail or any other resort conglomerate may seem huge, compared to Orica, they are very VERY small potatoes.

 

And yes, an incident involving explosives as I described will cause Orica to end their support for avalanche hazard reduction.

 

And if you think that the Federal Gov. could swig enough weight to influence them to alter their position you are sadly mistaken

 

BTW, there are no ski areas on the East Coast that utilize explosives for avalanche mitigation.

 

You may not like my message but it is from personal experience that I know these things.

 

 

 

post #66 of 103

What about artillery guns for avalanche control?  Who is the best of the best at shooting artillery rounds?  Ski Patrol, Ski School or hello Race team ?  

 

I here tell that the first Artillery round shot in JH went a tad high and it landed someplace in Idaho.  Some say near Driggs.   I don't know if the exact location has ever been confirmed or denied.  I don't think they took their Artillery gun away from ski patrol for aiming too high.   They just realized they had to sight things in a bit more. 

post #67 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post

What about artillery guns for avalanche control?  Who is the best of the best at shooting artillery rounds?  Ski Patrol, Ski School or hello Race team ?  

 

I here tell that the first Artillery round shot in JH went a tad high and it landed someplace in Idaho.  Some say near Driggs.   I don't know if the exact location has ever been confirmed or denied.  I don't think they took their Artillery gun away from ski patrol for aiming too high.   They just realized they had to sight things in a bit more. 



Military weaponry for avalanche mitigation within ski areas can only take place on Gov. lands. Private ski areas do not have access to such weapons. The program is regulated through the USFS or in a very few cases, the NPS or BLM.

 

The training is all through the Military and is done every fall. That being said, nothing is an exact science and occasionally shots do either go high or land short.

 

Factor in for example that in LCC Utah, the Highway Dept. and the ski areas do shoot near occupied buildings and into adjacent target zones that could have people ski touring within them.

 

It is for that reason, the USFS is trying to reduce or eliminate the use of Military weaponry for avalanche mitigation at ski areas and have us rely more on other methods such as Avalaunchers, Heli-bombing or building additional lifts to access avalanche terrain (Flagstaff Lift, Alta UT).

post #68 of 103

As a side note, shouldn't there always be two people taking a toboggan done the mountain, one in front and back? I was at Blackcomb a few years back, on  chairlift, and watched one guy taking an injured girl down on a toboggan. He got clipped by an out-of-control skier, lost it, and the poor girl when tumbling down the mountain, screaming. It was awful.

 

As a side, side, note. Maybe that's why I skied to the bottom of the mountain on my own after blowing my right ACL at Squaw and my left ACL and Jackson.

post #69 of 103

I'm not as in the loop like Bunion, but I have heard that it is getting harder for patrols to get the explosives they need.  There is indeed a vetting process and a certificate required to handle explosives legally.  There are very specific protocols regarding how and where the various components of the explosives are stored and handled and by whom.  As far as the artillery goes....  It is my understanding that most of that weaponry is Korean war surplus and the rounds for those guns are beginning to run out.  At JHMR there have been some avalaunchers brought onto the routes and a few Gas-Ex units installed on The Headwall.  These kinds of devices may have to replace some of the Howitzers if the rounds get scarce.  I don't "know" this to be fact.  I don't do control work nor am I affiliated with the JHMR patrol.

 

I think it is entirely possible that an abuse of the system could affect the whole industry
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

That may be true on a resort-by-resort basis, but the idea that one incident at some resort on the east coast is going to mean a resort thousands of miles across the country can't get explosives is a little ridiculous.  Again, too much money at stake here (and obviously I don't mean from purchasing explosives).  Some of the companies that own these resorts are huge with lots of influence - I assure you there's no way in hell they'd be cut off.  I also assume they make sure their employees are properly trained in munitions so it's a moot point.
 



 



 

post #70 of 103

Alveolus, when I was an anesthesia resident at the UW and skied Crystal on my day off after call, if you had an unrestricted license (as opposed to an in-training license) you could volunteer for the patrol as a "doc on call" for the day and get a free pass. I used to do that when I could, but we very rarely were asked to answer a call on the hill- mostly they wanted you to meet them at the patrol hut at the base for stabilization, assessment, etc.

 

Crystal is a BIG mountain with lots of very difficult terrain and sometimes very difficult conditions- I would imagine that the skiing skills needed to do a sled rescue from Campbell Basin or the North area are pretty significant. I wonder if they have areas that only the pro patrol covers. I have a physician colleague here who is trying out for the volunteer patrol at Winter Park. He's a strong skier in most all terrain and still had a hard time with their ski test. It really is as Posaune described it- all terrain, all conditions, any time. They also expect you to be strong and in good shape- he had to ski a long mogul field non-stop top to bottom after several other top to bottom runs.

post #71 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post
All that I can really do for a critical paitent is adminster O2, stabilize, and transport.  Someone with a tension pneumo-thorax, pericardial tamponade, MI, or other serious injury needs to be expidited. 

Don't minimize what you can do.  That is a lot and can save lives.

 

Airway airway airway.  Proper use of OPA, NPA, BVM, and suction can keep someone alive for a long time before entering the doors of an ER.  Screw the intubation paramedic skill,  Good use of your ski patrol BVM is as good as a paramedic's intubation tube.  Again do not minimize your ability to recognize those other serious symptoms.  Just being able to recognize the seriousness of the medical condition can save a life.   One of the big shot FEMA paramedics that has a satellite phone and gets called in for all sorts of big shot disasters said to me once,  "he is a good paramedic not because of his paramedic skills but because of his Basic Life Support Skills using only his hands and knowledge"  Many ERs that train interns require them to have lots of practice using a BVM before using intubation.  

 

I am ski patroller, EMT-B, and captain of local fire rescue squad.  On our rescue squad we got this young EMT that is starting med school. This guy is great.  I call him my bag man because on the bad calls he is always got that BVM ready and he is damn good at using it.  He had his EMT license  only a few months, when we had a  50YO cardiac save with him bagging the patient.  Good airway skills save lives. 

 

I have seen many times where the untrained caregiver or family member has no idea how serous the problem is.  The trained OEC ski patroller and EMT-B will know immediately this it is an obvious high priority call. 


 

 


Edited by catskills - 11/24/11 at 5:21am
post #72 of 103

Fair enough.  Although I disagree that the Federal government couldn't influence them if they really wanted to.  The government has and will strong-armed huge mutli-national corporations through the elimination of tax and trade exceptions, amongst other methods.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bunion View Post


Jay, you simply have no idea what you are talking about. This is what I do and how I have made my living for 27 years. What do you do within the ski industry?

 

While Boyne or CNL or Vail or any other resort conglomerate may seem huge, compared to Orica, they are very VERY small potatoes.

 

And yes, an incident involving explosives as I described will cause Orica to end their support for avalanche hazard reduction.

 

And if you think that the Federal Gov. could swig enough weight to influence them to alter their position you are sadly mistaken

 

BTW, there are no ski areas on the East Coast that utilize explosives for avalanche mitigation.

 

You may not like my message but it is from personal experience that I know these things.

 

 

 



 

post #73 of 103

So if a doctor skis up and says he's a doctor and wants to help, how is a ski patroller supposed to quantify his certification? Like other have said, many who are doctors have never practiced trauma. If you made an assessment and asked me if I can perform a chest decompression for example,(because you brought it up) I would say yes and no. While personally trained to do so as a Medic, we do not carry the ALS equipment in our ski patrol nor do I have ALS protocols as a patroller.  The patrol is OEC, (basic EMT protocol level) even if I had the gear in my bag because the patroller on duty was just an EMT-Basic, for you to step in and say you would do the procedure for the EMT is crazy. Are you going to go with the patient all the way to the hospital? You can't hand off to lower level of care. What if the ambulance comes to the mountain to transport at the BLS level? What protocols and liability insurance are you operating under on a ski hill? That procedure is not going to fall under the good samaritain law.  Technically you are opening up the mountain to a civil liability lawsuit, when the patient finds out some other patron was allowed to do ALS on them with ski patrol gear/equipment.  Many doctors even critical care doctors, who have done it thousands of times in their hospital, are out of their element on the ski hill. When was the last time you did a needle decomp outdoors in single digits temps? Or lying on the ground in 12 inches of powder and not on a bed that is adjustable with excellent lighting. Many doctors who ride on ambulances (for field ride along) with my real job will admit they are out of their element in OUR field (working in poor lighting, inside cruched up cars or at chaotic private residence scenes)  Then if the process has complications, you have no "critical care team" to fall back on and coworkers who understand the next steps, nor the tools or equipment for any of that.

 

So in the scope of practice of many ski patrols, OEC is the standard of care, (BLS) with emphasis that you need to package and transport the critical patient rapidly to a facility that can be better controlled. (Base Station)  Any delay in the field, the patient is getting colder and potentially going into shock from a delay in transport. so yes when a guys comes up to me and says hey I'm a doctor can I help, unless he or she is a ski patroller, many times and this is from experience, they are a hinderance as they do not understand how to package a patient, via LBB, c-collar, traction splinting, etc and I find I am training someone on the scene instead of getting the job done with my partner quickly.

 

No diferent on an airplane, anybody can say they are a doctor and Captain (pilot) will give you the key to the drug box. When that plane lands the first one to bail off the plane is usually the doctor because he or she does not want to deal with the potential liability he has undertaken when drugs have been administered without consulting medical history, lab work, cardiac monitor to make more informed decisions.  Don't get me wrong, I love doctors the world can live without them.

 

post #74 of 103

Sorry my bad (typo) .... The last sentence should have said, THE WORLD CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT THEM.

 

Thats the result of a 36hr shift at the firehouse.

 

 

post #75 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by FETC2007 View Post

So if a doctor skis up and says he's a doctor and wants to help, how is a ski patroller supposed to quantify his certification? Like other have said, many who are doctors have never practiced trauma.


Good question. The doctor can treat the patient if and only if he is willing to stay with the patient ALL the way to the hospital.  Period end of discussion.

 

We had a bad trauma call on ski hill with a patient bleeding out everywhere.  The first person to make patient contact was an ER trauma doctor. He was willing to stay and work the patient all the way to the hospital.  This doc was awesome.  He let ski patrol do what they were good at and he did what he is good at. It was a team effort. It was in the first aid room when the paramedic showed up with his tools that the ER trauma doc really showed what he is capable of.  In reality on the hill with limited tools available, ski patrol has more experience using the tools in the ski patrol trauma pack on the ski hill in the outdoors on steep slippery slopes. 

 

IMHO unless the doctor has a lot of experience in the ER, they are not going to be very useful on the hill with patient care.  Yes the doctors call 911.  As an EMT my ambulance gets numerous calls to primary care physicians office when patients are turning blue and the doctors office does not have oxygen or a BVM.

post #76 of 103

The patrol protocols where I work state;

 

Quote:

Intervening Physician On Scene

 

A physician physically present at a scene who offers to assist in the care of a patient may be allowed to do so if the following conditions are met:

The physician identifies him/herself to the EMS provider in charge of patient care as a currently licensed physician or otherwise authorized to practice in the state of New Mexico.

The physician agrees to accompany the patient to the hospital and to provide care until patient responsibility is appropriately transferred to the receiving hospital physician.

If the on-scene medical intervention orders conflict with these protocols, the physician should be placed in direct voice contact with the receiving physician. If a conflict remains, EMS personnel will follow normal protocol.

 

 

Back to the issue of doctor patrollers:

Quote:
Originally Posted by catskills View Post

...In reality on the hill with limited tools available, ski patrol has more experience using the tools in the ski patrol trauma pack on the ski hill in the outdoors on steep slippery slopes. 

 

IMHO unless the doctor has a lot of experience in the ER, they are not going to be very useful on the hill with patient care.  Yes the doctors call 911.  As an EMT my ambulance gets numerous calls to primary care physicians office when patients are turning blue and the doctors office does not have oxygen or a BVM.


There is the crux of the matter.  There just isn't that much doctoring that can be done on-hill and with the available tools.  Stabilizing and transporting the pt to a medical facility is usually the best thing that can be done...by anyone.  Until they've done some on-hill pt care people tend to way underestimate the problems posed by the environment that limit advanced care at the scene.  Extrication and transportation can be very complex, strenuous and occasionally dangerous.  Aid rooms aren't clinics, and the ski areas that have clinics have full-time doctors in them.  

 

Which leads to my concerns about doctors as patrollers.  Patrolling is so much more than pt care.  It's about hard and occasionally crappy physical work that some doctors don't show much interest in - carrying loads (on skis and at times in difficult terrain) of bamboo, fences, tower pads, signs, and rope, then putting that stuff up, digging out fences and raising pads, bootpacking runs, facility maintenance and cleaning, chairlift evacuation, avalanche control, sweeps, toboggan and equipment maintenance, clearing snow and deadfall, "customer contact," sitting in rotation at the patrol stations, low and high-angle rescue, searching, sweeping, training noobs, occasionally running lifts, etc.  And sometimes going to accidents.  redface.gif

 

The thing is that IME some doctors seem not to have a strong interest in doing all that stuff, but that stuff has to be done or else one of the other patrollers has to do it.  So while doctors can help a lot with their skills with assessments and treatments, unless they are willing to be full-on team members as patrollers, the EMT-B/I/Ps and medical director/MCEP (on-line medical control emergency physician) can get the job done.  

 

And oh yeah, at many hills it is hard to be a good patroller if you aren't a good strong skier.  My $.02.  

post #77 of 103

As a long time volunteer patroller, former OEC instructor, WEC instructor prior to that. The Ski Patrol loves physicians, nurses and paramedics. Especially the ER qualified ones.

But to just clarify things a little for you - unless they operating under their own license(and insurance) they can only practice to the OEC limits or at some areas to the limit of credentials (EMT) those areas require for patrollers. All for the sake of INSURANCE..

But we still love to have their knowledge - last season I patrolled with a profession paramedic every shift and a physician once in a while. Wonderful having that kind of resource. But their credentials were kept hidden from the general public. They were "just patrollers" and the area has this agreement with them prior to patrolling.

 

Now the skiing part - most if not all areas require that patrollers be able to safely handle a toboggan on the most difficult terrain of that area. That does not include being a spectacular skier while in that terrain.

However there are quite a few PSIA Level 3 instructors that also belong to many patrol's and pull their duty shift like everyone else. Just a matter of their interest and time. These PSIA certified Instructors usually earn their keep by putting on ski clinic's for the patrol they are associated with.

 

The patrol I am associated with usually(depending on needs) has a "ski along" for interested people in joining the patrol, once their interest is made known.

post #78 of 103

I went back and re-read some, and thought about this:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alveolus View Post

 

I am still  unclear on what skiing well  (enough) means.  “All turns, all conditions, all terrain” seems a bit much...


If you can't safely ski to, and safely extricate the people that can (or thought they could wink.gif ) ski all conditions, all terrain, then your usefulness will be greatly limited.  

post #79 of 103

I am a MD who just went through the OEC class and now will do the on hill training. So far, my skills have not been tapped and I don't think ski patrolling and being a doc are that compatible. No breath sounds, tracheal deviation and dyspnea, get me a needle stat.  Long board? Crap, how to I put a patient on that -- I only take people off.

 

Its a completely different environment that requires specific training and I would argue that as a doc we aren't really any more prepared to handle the situation than a properly trained OEC or EMT.  No equipment, no drugs to do any of the "fun" stuff. My take is pre-hospital care is to stabilize the pt enough to get them through the doors so the ED and ICU can take care of them with all the "fun" stuff we have in the hospital.

 

I really had to be humble and take that doctor cap off during the course, and say ya I know a ton about the physiology, and treatment. I had to bite my lip a few times regarding splinting -- because there are some sports docs who disagree with certain types of splints.

 

Enjoy! It is a good time so far, but i'm not sure it will be as rewarding as you think.

 

 

post #80 of 103

Alveolus,

 

What Patrol are you hoping to join?  While all patrollers ought to develop similar ski skills, the truth is different mountains breed and demand a different caliber of skiers.  I know here in the East there are plenty of patrols where the skiing is suspect but the mountains themselves don't require the same level of skiing skill and would be patrollers who aren't (and are not willing to become) proficient skiers gravitate towards.  Some places even have different tiered patrollers who are signed off to run sleds and handle accidents on some trails but not others.  You'll find these sort of arrangements mostly where there is a large volunteer contingent.  I guess I'm saying, depending on where you plan on patrolling, ski skills may be less important than others.  It's a fairly obvious formula, a Patroller has to be as good a skier as his specific ski area demands  (and there is a high standard of skiing deviation between Butternut and Mad River Glen!).  

 

More to the point, to know if Patrolling is right for you ask yourself what are you bringing to a patrol?  Ski skills and OEC skills are really the minimum qualities for prospective patrollers and there are other things that matter as much if not more--especially for NSP affiliated outfits or places with large volunteer patrols.  

 

I am a decent OEC-lvl tech and a better than average sled runner, but honestly, my value to my patrol is minimal and far less than many others.  

 

Do you have any mechanical/ carpentry, electrical or plumbing skills???  Many patrols are self-sustained and guys who can fix snowmobiles, repair sleds, build sound structures, create innovative tools for specific on mountain use, wire the patrol house, build fences, fix the patrol toilets, tie 100 knots, know how to use block and tackle for high and low angle rescue, coordinate night-time, multi system wilderness rescue and missing person operations and most importantly do all that stuff for free on their own time, (and not just during the ski season, but all year long as needs arise) are the most valuable patrollers.

 

 

I know someone said you don't want to be another 'Doc in the Box'.  I think that was an unfortunate comment because a quality medical person giving time in the aid room IS a real and generous benefit to a patrol.  If that is the best thing you have to give, many patrols would be happy to get it.  The question is, are you happy to give it?  I'm sure any patrol would spend the necessary time getting your ski skills up to snuff in your down time.  Every fall most patrols go through their OEC refreshers--there is always a need for strong instructors to volunteer time to help patrollers brush up on their first aid skills prior to the season.   What is it that want to give to a respective patrol?  What is it you really have to offer that makes it a better patrol?  

 

  

post #81 of 103

I'm on the Crystal Mountain Pro Patrol. We also have a Volunteer Patrol, and within that we have a Doctor Patrol. The docs are an important asset to the patrol. They do not wear the cross, but rather ski around with a radio and come to the Aid Room when we have a more serious accident. Some days are busier than others and the docs end up spending the day in the Aid Room, but most days they get plenty of skiing in. We also have doctors that are volunteer patrollers (wearing the jackets, bringing down toboggans, fixing ropelines, etc.). Let me know if you have any more questions, and hope to see you on the slopes.

post #82 of 103

You might look at Mt Bachelor.  They have MD's who staff the patrol room, for half pay of what they get at immediate care.  About seven days per season gets them a season pass.  They do go out and ski, both for fun and critical accidents.

 

An MD on the patrol could perform care beyond patrol protocol, but when one does that, they are on their own liability.

 

I am not currently involved with Bachelor patrol, and don't represent them, but that is what I recall the deal was a few years ago.

post #83 of 103

I'm going to stay out of the doctor portion of the discussion.  I just took the PSIA exam as a candidate last weekend and posted my notes on what the test was like and what you need to be able to do in order to pass the exam here:  http://joinskipatrol.wordpress.com/2011/12/04/the-ski-test-a-k-a-dont-ski-like-stein-erickson/

post #84 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinjachris View Post

I'm going to stay out of the doctor portion of the discussion.  I just took the PSIA exam as a candidate last weekend and posted my notes on what the test was like and what you need to be able to do in order to pass the exam here:  http://joinskipatrol.wordpress.com/2011/12/04/the-ski-test-a-k-a-dont-ski-like-stein-erickson/

 

Interesting post.  But you'd do the world a favor to stop repeating useless and incorrect advice like "modern carving skis where you need to have you feet shoulder width apart"

 

Stein's stance is too narrow.  Shoulder width apart is too wide.   Somewhere between too wide and too narrow is just right.
 

 

 

post #85 of 103

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinjachris View Post

I'm going to stay out of the doctor portion of the discussion.  I just took the PSIA exam as a candidate last weekend and posted my notes on what the test was like and what you need to be able to do in order to pass the exam here:  http://joinskipatrol.wordpress.com/2011/12/04/the-ski-test-a-k-a-dont-ski-like-stein-erickson/


From your article:

Quote:
To cut to the chase, most mountains require you to be PSIA level 3 to pull sleds on the green and blue runs. To pull sleds on the black runs or off piste you have to be PSIA level 4 (the scale goes 1-4 with 4 being the top).

 

Really?  Really?  Maybe for some areas near you?  But most?  

 

PSIA ≠ patrol

post #86 of 103

What Bob Lee said....  PSIA & NSP have very little to do with each other.  I am a member of both organizations.  I promise you that most patrollers I know would have a hard time walking up and passing the PSIA level 2 test and they are all very good at running sleds.  PSIA tests judge both skiing and teaching skills as well as technical knowledge.  The NSP senior test is much easier than a PSIA level 2, it is mostly interested in how solid your skiing is and if you can run a sled well.  BTW... PSIA instructor levels only go to 3, there is no level 4 in PSIA.  Stien wouldn't pass PSIA because his style is incompatible.  He would pass NSP because he could demonstrate competency within his style.  Your article is so full of inaccuracy's that it's hard for me to believe that you are actually a candidate in a real patrol.  I have no idea what you meant by the levels you described as 2-4.  Lesson levels go up to 9 and I wouldn't feel good about getting a toboggan ride from some one who was in a level 4 lesson group.

 

You have no need to learn how to self arrest with an ice axe.  If you crash with the sled, there is no excuse for ever letting go of it.  Take your leatherman and slash your wrists if you ever "bail out" of a loaded sled.

post #87 of 103

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

You have no need to learn how to self arrest with an ice axe.  If you crash with the sled, there is no excuse for ever letting go of it.  Take your leatherman and slash your wrists if you ever "bail out" of a loaded sled.


Whoa, I didn't read that far in that (fail) blog:

Quote:
Toboggan training is going to be interesting to say the least!  Now I need to learn how the alpinists use an ice axe to stop themselves from sliding down a glacier.  If I have to bail out of a sled, that skill might come in handy!!!  I’m guessing I’ll need something more substantial than a leatherman for friction!

 

nonono2.gif

 

What TPJ said - just kill yourself if you ever bail on a loaded sled.  

post #88 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 


Whoa, I didn't read that far in that (fail) blog:

 

nonono2.gif

 

What TPJ said - just kill yourself if you ever bail on a loaded sled.  


Why is that?  It's not like there's some kind of shortage of injured skiers (or sleds for that matter), so why cry over losing just one?

 

 

 

 

post #89 of 103

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt View Post

Why is that?  It's not like there's some kind of shortage of injured skiers (or sleds for that matter), so why cry over losing just one?


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post #90 of 103

Yesterday, I saw someone in a patrol vest with a pack doing sketchy stem christy turns and only planting the right pole every so often, left pole not at all, arms flapping around quite a bit.    They weren't skiing with anyone else at the time.  I'm guessing they were either an EMT or ER/ED doc because their skiing certainly didn't land them the patrol gig.  That is fine.  We all have different skills and talents that are useful when pooled with those of others.  There wasn't any really challenging terrain open where we were skiing anyway.

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