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Knee Bindings, 2011-2012, User Reviews  

post #1 of 68
Thread Starter 

Hello all. 

 

Though there are many knee binding threads, I wanted to get one going for USER reviews, NOT discussion of weather or  not the bindings hypothetically do what the manufacturer says they do.

 

I will try to keep this post up-dated throughout the 2011-2012 season with my impressions of the binding, and I encourage others to do the same.  Most importantly, if and (if your like me) WHEN you fall, please talk about the fall and the feeling of the release.

 

I will be skiing both the KB12  and KB12C this winter.

 

The KB12 will be mounted to a Palmer PO1 twin +    (all mountain ski, 88 waist)

 

The KB12C will be mounted to a Palmer PO2           (on piste carver, 68 waist)

 

Both skis are quite stiff, with tip and tail rocker and camber underfoot, and would be considered an advanced to expert ski.

 

My boots are Tecnica Dragons

 

 

I will be teaching on these bindings, that means that they will be run into, run over and in general take more abuse then any normal persons equipment.  In the past 7 years I have spent between 450 and 500 days on snow, and I always like to try and demo new equipment when possible.

 

 

 

NOTE,  if there is already a post like this (and I looked for one,but might have missed it), please move the post to the appropriate thread


Edited by skiknight - 11/10/11 at 9:00am
post #2 of 68

I am going to move this over to GEAR REVIEW forum but you can also post you review of the product HERE.

post #3 of 68

This will be a lengthy thread in the end and I'm glad someone started it.  I've got a set mounted on a pair of new Kendos and I'll give 'em a spin in early December.  It'll be my first ski day since injury last Jan so I'll be taking it verrry easy for a bit.

 

It seems to me the next year or 2 will be make or break for Kneebinding since their distribution has expanded greatly.  The data is going to start pouring in for better or worse.

post #4 of 68
Thread Starter 

Philpug, TY  (as I get better at navigating the site, I will try and put things where they belong)

 

ed_d, I believe you are correct

post #5 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiknight View Post

Hello all. 

 

Though there are many knee binding threads, I wanted to get one going for USER reviews, NOT discussion of weather or  not the bindings hypothetically do what the manufacturer says they do.

 

I will try to keep this post up-dated throughout the 2011-2012 season with my impressions of the binding, and I encourage others to do the same.  Most importantly, if and (if your like me) WHEN you fall, please talk about the fall and the feeling of the release.

 

 


Thanks for doing this...I have had 2 ACLs now and have been watching info on the KneeBinding with interest.  One comment on falls, studies of expert level racers show that many ACL tears happen BEFORE the fall (when in the back seat, but with a chance to "recover") with the fall being the result of the injury.  With beginners, it is usually a slow, backwards, twisting fall.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_d View Post

This will be a lengthy thread in the end and I'm glad someone started it.  

 

It seems to me the next year or 2 will be make or break for Kneebinding since their distribution has expanded greatly.  The data is going to start pouring in for better or worse.

 

I agree, but would have one word of caution for potential users/detractors- eventually, SOMEONE IS GOING TO TEAR THEIR ACL WHILE USING KNEE BINDINGS.  This does not mean that they are not working as designed as they only claim to offer protection for the mechanism that causes ~70% of ACL injuries.  So if 3 guys instead of 10 blow out their ACL with KneeBindings, then they are a success.  I am pretty sure my 2nd blow out would still have occurred with KneeBindings, but am still likely to buy them the next time I get a new flat ski.   
 

 

post #6 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiknight View Post

Hello all. 

 

Though there are many knee binding threads, I wanted to get one going for USER reviews, NOT discussion of weather or  not the bindings hypothetically do what the manufacturer says they do.



Good Luck keeping it to just the facts! I've been on KneeBindings for 166 ski days, and have tried for several seasons to share my real user experiences, which include releases in every direction. Unfortunately, KneeBinding threads always become a circus once the haters get together and sharpen their pitchforks. In the past there has also been a shortage of useful moderation, and I've tolerated plenty of flack. One moderator insisted I post video of me skiing on the bindings to prove I was a real user, which then resulted in critique of my "un-inspiring" skiing. There is also another moderator who will defend his loud hater buddy. Despite stacking the deck to squelch discussion, the topic perpetually generates interest because everyone knows someone with a hurt knee.

 

My own experiences are detailed in several prior KneeBinding threads, and my particulars are listed in my profile. I unfortunately have little to share this season as my mere 3 ski days so far were on quite limited and low challenge early season terrain, and no falls at all yet. I will look forward to seeing other peoples' real experiences here!

 

post #7 of 68

 

I realize this has been a polarizing issue in the past. Fortunately I do not know the background of some of the personal issues that came up in previous debates. I too am watching this thread and looking for facts about this product. I can't say I am currently in the market for a pair, but the concept intrigues me. I will do whatever possible as a moderator to make sure this thread remains civil and the pitchforks are checked at the door. So just to make this clear from the outset, if you disagree with the marketing of KneeBindings or the personalities of the individuals involved with designing and selling this product, take it elsewhere.

 

Can't wait to see how you make out with this season long test skiknight!

 

post #8 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_d View Post

This will be a lengthy thread in the end and I'm glad someone started it.  I've got a set mounted on a pair of new Kendos and I'll give 'em a spin in early December.  It'll be my first ski day since injury last Jan so I'll be taking it verrry easy for a bit.

 

It seems to me the next year or 2 will be make or break for Kneebinding since their distribution has expanded greatly.  The data is going to start pouring in for better or worse.



Is anyone actually collecting this kind of "data?" I'm sure that anecdotes will pour in, but unless kneebinding or someone else is making an effort to collect data in the field by either asking users to submit injury reports, sponsoring a study of something like 100 frequent skiers over 5 years, or something else that generates useful data, all we will have is anecdotes.

post #9 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschick View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by ed_d View Post

This will be a lengthy thread in the end and I'm glad someone started it.  I've got a set mounted on a pair of new Kendos and I'll give 'em a spin in early December.  It'll be my first ski day since injury last Jan so I'll be taking it verrry easy for a bit.

 

It seems to me the next year or 2 will be make or break for Kneebinding since their distribution has expanded greatly.  The data is going to start pouring in for better or worse.



Is anyone actually collecting this kind of "data?" I'm sure that anecdotes will pour in, but unless kneebinding or someone else is making an effort to collect data in the field by either asking users to submit injury reports, sponsoring a study of something like 100 frequent skiers over 5 years, or something else that generates useful data, all we will have is anecdotes.



This thread is a review not a scientific study.

post #10 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschick View Post



Is anyone actually collecting this kind of "data?" I'm sure that anecdotes will pour in, but unless kneebinding or someone else is making an effort to collect data in the field by either asking users to submit injury reports, sponsoring a study of something like 100 frequent skiers over 5 years, or something else that generates useful data, all we will have is anecdotes.


agreed http://blog.skilodgingrental.com/2011/11/29/kneebinding-thoughts-and-suggestions-.aspx but this thread is better than nothing, particularly if people buying the knee binding her post before using and continue to report back periodically.

 

post #11 of 68

I think most of the discord is due to the lack of true "scientific" information about the subject and the bindings themselves. We can't even agree on the timing of the injury. Does the ACL tear cause the Fall or does the Fall cause the tear. And every fall is different, every condition is different and every skier's physiology is different. With wider distribution and more users we will at least have more reviews and more anecdotal information (opinions) about the Knee Binding and hopefully a better basis for decision making concerning the subject.

Injuries are a big issue with skiing.

Most of my friends skied at one time with their family but did not continue to ski because of (among other things) fear of injury. Every time I mention skiing someone will say "aren't you afraid you'll get hurt" or "it's going to be a long summer if you can't play golf for 6 months because of that injury".

Injuries are a big issue with skiing. If we are interested in growing the sport, as most of us are, nothing would increase participation more than reducing injuries and eliminating some of the fear of skiing and fear of injury that goes with the sport.

I am glad skinight started this review thread so actual users can offer their opinions. I hope everyone else including the designer, owner and experts keep their food fight on one of the other threads and leave this one to reviewers and questions for the reviewers who are actually using the product.

post #12 of 68

I, for one, will be eagerly watching this thread--not for reports of ACL (non) injuries, but rather for opinions of daily performance.  Does it feel solid?  Is it too high?  Did it pre-release?  Did it release when you wanted?  Was the release forgiving?  How does it look?  Do the chicks dig it?

 

If everything else checks out, I'll just assume that the ACL-saving features won't hurt and might help.

post #13 of 68
Thread Starter 

Update...  Just so you all know I am still devoted to this thread, My season has yet to start!  The gods of snow and cold weather have not blessed North East PA, with skiing weather yet.  As soon as I get some on slope time, I will start reporting on my experience!

 

Thanks to Our Moderators for keeping an eye on this thread!!!!!

post #14 of 68



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aschick View Post



Is anyone actually collecting this kind of "data?" I'm sure that anecdotes will pour in, but unless kneebinding or someone else is making an effort to collect data in the field by either asking users to submit injury reports, sponsoring a study of something like 100 frequent skiers over 5 years, or something else that generates useful data, all we will have is anecdotes.


This is a great question and it's doubtful anyone is in my mind. 
 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by MEfree30 View Post


agreed http://blog.skilodgingrental.com/2011/11/29/kneebinding-thoughts-and-suggestions-.aspx but this thread is better than nothing, particularly if people buying the knee binding her post before using and continue to report back periodically.

 


Agreed.  For now all we can do is keep an eye on various ski forums.  I suppose, as someone else mentioned, it will take a number of years to develop a remotely accurate picture of how these things perform.  I promise to report back here periodically.
 

 

post #15 of 68

I got 50+ days on mine (3 days this season), so far they are doing pretty good. Mine are mounted on 2011 Gotama that I am using as everyday ski. I did notice they disconnect when there is unusual twist going on between the surface, ski and the body position. Any other binding would most likely stay connected, allowing me to save the situation, I am glad this one didn't ( I have a knee injury that doesn't need extra pressure). 

 

I have a carbon version, the only thing I don't like is when you use ski poles to release the binding, it leaves dents in the soft material. 

post #16 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

As I said in post #2, there is a spot to add a review HERE.

 

Discussion threads are just that, discussions. There will be input from various views and this is a great place for that. There has been much mud slinging over this unproven product but that will happen with almost ANY NEW product where it's claims are yet to be proven (for or against). So, do you believe the naysayers or the proponents that are on the payroll? Just like anything else, you have to weigh ALL the facts and make a an educated decision for yourself. 



Phil, if by chance you are inferring that as a proponent I am somehow on the payroll then I must state emphatically that I am NOT, and that I have also paid for my sets of KneeBindings. BTW, it's hardly a "new product" anymore as this is my fourth (4th) ski season on KneeBindings that were commercially purchased back while I was recovering from knee surgery. I pre-ordered them, paid in advance, and was one of their very first commercial customers/users. Yes, I am clearly a proponent - and this is due to my time spent actually skiing on them (166 ski days including some 80 NASTAR runs, and even Tucks) and not theorizing about them.

 

post #17 of 68

*Grabs thread steering wheel out of spin*

 

Remember this thread is Skiknights review of the product. Take the tangent debate elsewhere please. It would be nice to let a KneeBinding thread last more than two weeks without being locked. 

post #18 of 68

I started retailing Knee bindings last year and have continued with them this season.  Sales are definitely increasing.  Last year I had several customers return months after their first purchase for another pair.  Across the board they had no negative comments regarding function, there were no complaints of prerelease or any other problems that would impact aggressive skiers.

 

I myself ski a pair on a carving ski and had them out yesterday for the first day of the season.  We skied very fast on groomed with the bindings set on 8.  I weigh 185, am 6'2" with a 315mm boot.

 

One of my employees is an aggressive and very good all-mountain skier who tested the bindings last year for several days and now actively promotes them although we have other choices in the store.

 

Lou

post #19 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiknight View Post

Hello all. 

 

Though there are many knee binding threads, I wanted to get one going for USER reviews, NOT discussion of weather or  not the bindings hypothetically do what the manufacturer says they do.

 

 

 

NOTE,  if there is already a post like this (and I looked for one,but might have missed it), please move the post to the appropriate thread



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

As I said in post #2, there is a spot to add a review HERE.

 

Discussion threads are just that, discussions. There will be input from various views and this is a great place for that. There has been much mud slinging over this unproven product but that will happen with almost ANY NEW product where it's claims are yet to be proven (for or against). So, do you believe the naysayers or the proponents that are on the payroll? Just like anything else, you have to weigh ALL the facts and make a an educated decision for yourself. 



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

*Grabs thread steering wheel out of spin*

 

Remember this thread is Skiknights review of the product. Take the tangent debate elsewhere please. It would be nice to let a KneeBinding thread last more than two weeks without being locked. 


So who is right?  Skiknight says it is a thread for USER REVIEWS (plural), Phil seems to say it is a discussion thread as there is already a review thread and tyrwnzl says it is Skiknights REVIEW (singular) of the product.  

 

post #20 of 68

This is still a discussion, but this forum is "Member Gear Reviews" not the Ski Gear Discussion. This is meant to discuss his review and perhaps others. If you want to discuss the merits of the product outside the parameters of the soon to be posted reviews that's what the ski gear discussion forum area is for. 

post #21 of 68

I blew out my ACL in 2009 in a slow speed backwards fall. Nothing spectacular, just ugly. After ACL replacement and subsequent PT I was back on the slopes last season. I bought Knee Bindings and skied in them all of last season. I can report no premature releases and several rear lateral releases during falls. I know that this is anectodal and subjective, but I think that I would have torqued my knee in those falls which resulted in rear lateral release of the binding, had I been using traditional bindings.

 

I'm looking forward to skiing with the bindings this year, as my confidence has grown since my ACL injury in 2009. I'll report back as the season progresses.

post #22 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

This is still a discussion, but this forum is "Member Gear Reviews" not the Ski Gear Discussion. This is meant to discuss his review and perhaps others. If you want to discuss the merits of the product outside the parameters of the soon to be posted reviews that's what the ski gear discussion forum area is for. 



So why doesn't he review the product once he has actually use it. Pre-emptive review threads are retarded. That's like bringing some new ski's home. Saying; "they sure look cool!", and making a review on that basis alone.

post #23 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post



So why doesn't he review the product once he has actually use it. Pre-emptive review threads are retarded. That's like bringing some new ski's home. Saying; "they sure look cool!", and making a review on that basis alone.

 

I understand what you are saying and the OP may have jumped the gun a bit.  With that said, it would be nice to have a thread that has multiple reviews for KneeBindings as it is a product that has a lot of potential interest for guys like me (2 blown ACLS) and others who may not want to follow in my foot steps.  As it stands, several others beside the OP have posted actual reviews here, so this thread has already served some benefit.
 

 

post #24 of 68

Hi,I hope this comment is being added in the right forum.  I have 2 pairs of carbon Knee Bindings and 40 days on them, (One Gotama, One Kastle FX).  I also ski on a pair of Vist Bindings.  So far I have had more pre-releases on the VIST than the Knee.  I have had one definite "reverse twisting fall" on the Knee and it released.  I cannot tell if another binding would have done so.

The Knees were put on skis that previously had Marker Griffons.  They are a bit higher, but do not ski appreciable differently.

 

I am buying a third pair this year for a new ski, and buying a pair for my wife.  

 

After skiing them, reading all the product data and some of the forums, watching videos, and playing with the boot on a bench I am happy.   My sence is the company should do detailed long term testing, and some of us who are intested and can buy the bindings should do so to help advance the sport/safety... Not every new thing works, but this one looks good to me so far.

 

Disclosure:  I also wear a helmet.  : )

post #25 of 68

 

I'm a mid level intermediate skier and have always been frightened of knee injury. I wouldn't consider myself an experienced enough skier to provide a credible review but I will give my experience with Knee bindings so far.

 

I learned of Knee bindings late last season. Their design provides a third release mechanism at the heel. They are physically heavier and look and feel more robust in build than the bindings that came with my Salomon Pilot Screams or my previous Head/Tyrolia L12's. My local shop said that Knee didn't offer any free samples to it's retailers. Also, they said that Knee physically tests each binding were other manufactures may test every third or fifth binding. Many of the people working in the shop had been using them for some time without any issues and they're Made In The USA.

  

If your a woodworker you'll remember the chat room flack given the safety blade break equipped SawStop table saw. For an extra two or three thousand dollars it will prevent an accident that happens to thousands each year. I own one of those too. Despite Knee bindings critics, the lack of substantial data, and the lack of any negative comments from actual users, I'm in.

 

I managed to get seventeen days with them at the end of last season. I didn't have any premature binding releases. I did fall negotiating a lift line while an individual behind me was standing on one of my skis and I fell. Falling back and to my left the right binding released at the heel as my leg twisted before my butt hit the snow. If I'm not mistaken the binding paid for itself at that moment. If nothing else it seems to work well as a binding and it employes U.S. citizens. 


Edited by Vic Damone - 12/10/11 at 2:05am
post #26 of 68

Lots of good information here.  I also have had an ACL injury and have been looking for some good bindings.

 

Thanks,

post #27 of 68

 

I'll sign on to this thread.  I bought Knee Bindings for my wife after her ACL blow-out last season and am contemplating a set for myself.  Still waiting for (apparently mythological) snow, but I'll add data when I can.  I doubt she'll ski hard, but I should be able to report how the bindings feel compared to the Dynastars they replace.

post #28 of 68

18 days so far this season on KneeBindings, including 5 days on a new set of the Carbons (mounted on 178cm Stockli StormRiders). The Carbons seem to me to be an upward progression from my older non-Carbon KneeBindings (Improved Brakes; Improved Mounting Screw Configuration - so says my tech). I have been on KneeBindings for 163 days over the past three seasons, leading up to this season, bringing my total ski days on various KneeBindings to 181. Nothing unusual to report, just good skiing.

 

SilverRider: FWIW I'm 5' 10" and 172 pounds, and glad you're doing OK after a scare like that!

post #29 of 68
Thread Starter 

Hello all!

 

As of 12-29-11  I have logged 6 days of skiing on the knee bindings, 2 on the knee 12   and 4 on the knee 12 carbon. 

 

No falls yet, so I cant tell you how the release went. 

 

What I can tell you is that they hold my boot tightly and I have no play in them.  I am satisfied with the binding, and to my knowledge they are functioning correctly.

 

Getting out of the binding is a bit more difficult then previous bindings.  The reason for this is because of the angle I have to put my pole at to force the binding open.  No big deal in my opinion.

 

I will check back in a week or 3 with another up-date.

post #30 of 68

 

My wife skied hers today for the first time.  Very tight tolerances -- so tight she had trouble getting her left boot into the left binding (I had to assist).   The local shop (Pat's Peak, NH, which is KB certified) couldn't figure it out -- the left seemed tighter than the right -- and suggested lowering the left DIN setting.  I'm unenthused about that option (though they're not my bindings, of course); we plan to discuss it with the dealer, or perhaps the company.

 

Otherwise she liked the bindings quite a bit.  No falls, so no release test, but she said they seemed to ski really well -- she thought she liked the extra height.

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