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Volkl RTM??

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 

I skied the RTM 80 and 84 at the SIA dealer demo at Winter Park last year and was completely unimpressed, so were the rest of the people I was testing with, and in making small talk with some of the dealers there on chairlifts, etc. no one seemed to have anything good to say about these skis and a lot of guys seemed kind of nervous about buying them.  Now, 8 months later, the magazine tests come out and these things are winning best in category awards, something seems kind of fishy here.

post #2 of 44

I skied both @ WP and later as well and thought the RTM 84 was a nice improvement over the dog that preceded it (AC-50). I think that possibly one problem might be that some of the dealers there expected the RTM to just be another ski in the AC line and thus expected it to ski similarly. If the folks that you spoke to were big fans of the old one, well.......no surprise that they didn't care so much for the new one.......it is really different.

 

OTH I got direct feedback from three of our employees that were on the SKI magazine test team and the responses there were far more positive from that  group. Best in category???? well.....I dunno about that, but I can certainly picture the customer that will like it and that's who I bought it for.

 

SJ

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post #3 of 44

Just going by reviews and 2nd hand information, there are two things to consider.  Firstly, RTM80, RTM77 and RTM84 are full rockers (the others are early rise), so if you want to use a little more smearing or if you don't miss the tips always connected feeling you might like 'em.  Secondly, the AC50 was very much liked by folks who liked to ski fast, but not so much by people who at times wanted to ski slowly, and was very unforgiving and quite a handfull if it had to be forced to ski tentatively at slower speeds in difficult conditions.  Volkl may have softened up their skis to make them easier to ski sacrificing the 1% market. The pendulum may have swung too far.  These skis are not for high angle high performance skiing.

 

Also note there are two RTM75 skis, the "RTM75 is" has a little more beef than the RTM75 which is the typical limp noodle beginner ski.

post #4 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post Volkl may have softened up their skis to make them easier to ski sacrificing the 1% market. The pendulum may have swung too far.  These skis are not for high angle high performance skiing.

 

Also note there are two RTM75 skis, the "RTM75 is" has a little more beef than the RTM75 which is the typical limp noodle beginner ski.



For the most part, I'd say the opposite is true. The weakness of the RTM 84 for better skiers is at lower angles not higher ones. The 84 acts like any continuous rocker ski does at lower angles. Since there is no camber to distribute pressure to the extremities, the ski feels mushy and vague in transition and crossunder. At higher speeds and angles it is possible to get some pressure going to stabilize the ski. The RTM will never have the feel of a conventionally cambered ski but the tradeoff is that it is much easier to slide and smear at slower speeds. Another benefit is that the RTM 84 is actually useful in shallow mixed snow conditions and/or bumps whereas the AC50 really wasn't.

 

Despite the hype both pro and con and the naysayers, this is a pretty good ski. The "Code" however, is a much better call for a skier that likes the feel of older Volkls.

 

SJ

 

 

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post #5 of 44

Finally, been waiting for 6 months for a thread about these skis to get some really meaty debate going on from guys who know what they are talking about.

I wondered if the Volkl carving orientated skis had gone a bit more K2ish or is this really just the mainstream now? popcorn.gif

post #6 of 44

The RTM series is NOT the previous AC series, that is for sure. I will jokingly say the RTM's are the best K2's that Volkl has produced. IMHO, that is not a bad thing, the RTM's when pushed hard, can ski with most of the feel of the AC's but at medium to slower speeds, is where the RTM's are much friendlier than the AC's could ever be. K2 makes some of the easier skiing skis out there, Volkl took a que from them and added some of that to their skis, not a bad thing. 

post #7 of 44

Just saw this thread after I posted question about the RTM 80 vs. the Atomic Blackeye Ti.  What are your guys thoughts on the two?  I skied the AC30 in the past and thought it was a little too stiff for me.  I am an advanced intermediate skier.  Also, I am 5'9", 180 pds.  Should I go for the 167s or 174s?  At this point I am leaning towards the Atomics given my previous experience with the AC30s.

post #8 of 44

The Blackeye is the better choice and I'd say the 174 would be more versatile. Choose the 167 only if you are a groomers only type or maybe a little tentative.

 

SJ

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post #9 of 44

Thanks Sierra Jim.  Where do you ski mostly out of?

post #10 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliBoy View Post

Thanks Sierra Jim.  Where do you ski mostly out of?



Depends........

 

Hard snow days, I'll typically ski Northstar. Other days, my Tahoe fave is Sugar Bowl but I also ski also Alpine and Squawwywood.

 

SJ

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post #11 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by SierraJim View Post



For the most part, I'd say the opposite is true. The weakness of the RTM 84 for better skiers is at lower angles not higher ones. The 84 acts like any continuous rocker ski does at lower angles. Since there is no camber to distribute pressure to the extremities, the ski feels mushy and vague in transition and crossunder. At higher speeds and angles it is possible to get some pressure going to stabilize the ski. The RTM will never have the feel of a conventionally cambered ski but the tradeoff is that it is much easier to slide and smear at slower speeds. Another benefit is that the RTM 84 is actually useful in shallow mixed snow conditions and/or bumps whereas the AC50 really wasn't.


 

 

Just to be clear, I agree with the above.

 

I guess I should have said, this ski is not for the high angle high performance skier.  A ski should be skied with the ski engaged, and tip the rocker over far enough and bend it past it's pre-determined rocker shape, and it is engaged.  However, every series of turns has to go through transition, and the way to nail a turn is to start it right.  It's just my opinion, but in my opinion, complete engagement and complete control throughout the turn is best accomplished when you can keep at least some pressure and connection at the extremities.  Also, for most hard charging you need some beef.  Exceptions of course for powder, where too much beef will be a PITA.
 

 

post #12 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Just to be clear, I agree with the above.

 

I guess I should have said, this ski is not for the high angle high performance skier.  A ski should be skied with the ski engaged, and tip the rocker over far enough and bend it past it's pre-determined rocker shape, and it is engaged.  However, every series of turns has to go through transition, and the way to nail a turn is to start it right.  It's just my opinion, but in my opinion, complete engagement and complete control throughout the turn is best accomplished when you can keep at least some pressure and connection at the extremities.  Also, for most hard charging you need some beef.  Exceptions of course for powder, where too much beef will be a PITA.
 

 


I agree completely.

 

For my own personal tastes, continuous rocker in this category is a waste. Nevertheless, Volkl has done a good job of taking a ski that was not very good at it's advertised tasks (AC-50) and improved it in substantial ways for some skiers and conditions. Despite living in the powder rich west, I always have a hard snow ski available. On a no snow day, I want to remember my best race turn ever. (boyoboy is that in the distant past). My choices for this task have conventional camber or (at most) minor tip rise. In reality, I skied my hard snow skis about 30% or so of my days last year......probably will do so again this year. My choice this year is probably a Dynastar Course Ti or possibly a Fischer Progressor 1000. I also really like the Blizzi Mag 8.1 (and several others) None of the skis that I like in this category, have much rocker at all and most have none.

 

Nevertheless, the Volkl RTM 84 will be a good competitor in this category. Will those who loved the old traditional planks love this new iteration?.........almost certainly not. But a certain segment will like these skis and are buying them up pretty quickly.

 

SJ

 

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post #13 of 44

What's the universally accepted name for this or should we make something up?  "contact", "pressure" or "transition gap",  "vague spot"? smile.gif

Of course traditional camber skis have an edge transition gap also and the gap period is width dependant also, but I thought it was the way I skied at first with rocker skis but as you guys are attesting too it's definitely more pronounced.

We ski predominately hard pack and personally I don't like the extra vagueness and haven't found that rocker added anything extra to benefit me so far. For lots of new snow, powder, I'd use a different ski with rocker for sure, but for groomed no thanks at the mo......

 

FSB313 (the OP) What was the main criticism of the skis overall by you/everyone that you mentioned in the opening post out of interest?

 


Edited by snala - 11/12/11 at 12:39pm
post #14 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by snala View Post

What's the universally accepted name for this or should we make something up?  "contact", "pressure" or "transition gap",  "vague spot"? smile.gif

Of course traditional camber skis have an edge transition gap also and the gap period is width dependant also, but I thought it was the way I skied at first with rocker skis but as you guys are attesting too it's definitely more pronounced.

We ski predominately hard pack and personally I don't like the extra vagueness and haven't found that rocker added anything extra to benefit me so far. For lots of new snow, powder, I'd use a different ski with rocker for sure, but for groomed no thanks at the mo......

 

FSB313 (the OP) What was the main criticism of the skis overall by you/everyone that you mentioned in the opening post out of interest?

 


Absolutely!!!!

 

SJ

 

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post #15 of 44

I haven't skied the RTMs, but for the last six years I have been on the Volkl AC series.  The AC 40 was the last one I had.  I bought it before they started making the 50. 

 

Anyway, so far to this day I would say that those ACs are the best skis I have skied on.  I just don't like the bindings.  This year I'm switching to Salomon for that reason. 

 

I imagine I would like the RTMs as much as the ACs, I just don't want the bindings. 

post #16 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Saunders View Post

I haven't skied the RTMs, but for the last six years I have been on the Volkl AC series.  The AC 40 was the last one I had.  I bought it before they started making the 50. 

 

Anyway, so far to this day I would say that those ACs are the best skis I have skied on.  I just don't like the bindings.  This year I'm switching to Salomon for that reason. 

 

I imagine I would like the RTMs as much as the ACs, I just don't want the bindings. 



Actually, you probably wouldn't. The only thing that is similar is the name on the topsheet. IAC.......I am not much of a fan of Markers. either the older or the new ones. Nevertheless when I test skis, I often ski on markers b/c that's what they come with. If I am willing to accept a higher setting, then they are OK. Nevertheless, I can ski at much closer to the chart setting (3+) on a Salomon or Look.

 

SJ

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post #17 of 44

On my last markers, I would imagine that a 16 DIN is equal is equal to about a 10 DIN on salomon.  I also ski with salomon on my mogul skis... and also my fat skis.  They seem to work well. 

post #18 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Saunders View Post

On my last markers, I would imagine that a 16 DIN is equal is equal to about a 10 DIN on salomon.  I also ski with salomon on my mogul skis... and also my fat skis.  They seem to work well. 


Not sure the difference is all that great but nevertheless.....it is there. Personally, I can stay in a top model of a LOOK or Solly at less than 10. On most Makers including the newer ones, I require at least a 12. If one is willing to accept that high a setting, then a Marker is fine.

 

SJ

 

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post #19 of 44

I have not noticed any issues regarding DIN setting and release/retension issues on my Marker Comp 16s.th_dunno-1[1].gif

 

I had an old twincam (46?) give me an unwanted release, but the skis was bent into a tight curve by the ditch/gully I was skiing through and the extra forward pressure due to the fixed boot length no doubt had a part in that release (I had to ski fast across a little gully to get to the a half pipe, and wanted to keep momentum. I couldn't quite make it all the way across in the air, so the ditch, so didn't jump it.

post #20 of 44

Are we done talking RTM and now a thread drift to bindings, Marker vs. Salomon vs. Look? popcorn.gif

post #21 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View PostAre we done talking RTM and now a thread drift to bindings, Marker vs. Salomon vs. Look? popcorn.gif


Yes please!  devil.gif

 

put me down for LOOK x 100

post #22 of 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post



Yes please!  devil.gif

 

put me down for LOOK x 100



You LOOK 100 X hotter than the average bear!wink.gif

post #23 of 44

If Volkl wouldn't foist their markers on volkl customers, people wouldn't have to evaluate a binding in order to buy a ski. I'm way opposed to all ski/binding systems which I think are not in the buyer's best interest. Are they a way to make the customer buy two items from one company, rather than the one item they intended to purchase? Wasn't that whole let the ski flex evenly through the binding area a load of crap for most off piste skis? To me it was a low point in skiing retail history, ha.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

Are we done talking RTM and now a thread drift to bindings, Marker vs. Salomon vs. Look? popcorn.gif



 

post #24 of 44

I kinda like to be able to flex the ski a lot when I hit a hole without having the heel to toe shortening help release my binding.  You don't need hostage bindings for that though.  I put Tyrolia FF17+ on my Volants which were ready to accept whatever binding I chose (unlike my P50s).

post #25 of 44

I've never had a problem with the Wide Ride bindings on my Grizzlies, are the new RTM and Grizzly bindings the same or have they changed them?

 

Spacecase

post #26 of 44

I skied the RTM 84 yesterday on groomers and some ice/crud and found that it did very well. With the rocker it felt like it was a little more forgiving than my AC 30's

post #27 of 44

On the binding thing.......

 

Most manufacturers are using integrated bindings for on piste oriented skis. This is because it gives the designer another tool to use in tuning whatever he wants to achieve. There are some spectacular offerings both now and in the future that allow a ski to have tremendous grip and dampening and yet they are not overbearingly stiff. This attribute gives the primarily groomer oriented skier a very grippy and damp ski that can also handle a bit of mixed snow better than the typical plank that some makers have been selling. The system concept basically dies out at about 85-87mm and above that, almost everything worth having is sold flat.

 

SJ

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post #28 of 44

Are the Volkl RTM's changed from last year, particularly the Volkl RTM 80 skis, or is it just a new paint job on the same skis?

 

Also, are people out there any happier with them since this "I was unimpressed when I skied them" thread was started?!

post #29 of 44
Demo'd the new RTMs. Same crap as last year. No stability at low-medium edge angles and in transitions. A smeary mess of a ski. Good for an intermediate skier who has no desire to find his edges and is used to the 'hassle' of skidding a traditional ski. IMO, this ski will make a fast good skier look and feel out of control at speeds he would normally be comfortable at on a traditionally cambered ski. I had to dial it back 10-15mph. I couldn't wait for the run to be over and get them off my feet. As Ghost says, edge engagement through the entire turn is extremely important for stability. The RTM does not have this. If this abomination is winning awards, I'd love to get some of those drugs. Full rocker on this size of a ski is an awful idea. It kind of feels like wearing a boot thats 2 sizes too big.
post #30 of 44
Which ones were you on exactly, do you recall? Is it possible the lower end ones are like that and the upper end ones (84 and 80) are not?
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