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Video analysis

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 

Would anybody know approximately how many  skiers annually use video analysis in USA/World?

 

Thx

post #2 of 24

kriskoik, wellcome to epic. Kind of funky question. I would like to suggest that not many. Most skiers are not interested in how they ski. Start a poll over in the general forum and dont count people participating in the instructional forum. Then do the math and you will have a good approximation.

post #3 of 24
Kriskoik--welcome to EpicSki, where you'll get answers to your questions about skiing!

17,492

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #4 of 24
...at least, that's my best educated estimate.

wink.gif

But you can add one if you like--just submit some video of yourself skiing, preferably taken by a competent videographer with a real video camera (ie. not a cell phone video). Or jump into any thread discussing video of someone else and offer your opinions and suggestions.

Video is a great tool for anyone who really wants to improve as a skier. Like TDK6 says, unfortunately, many are content with remaining mediocre.

Welcome to EpicSki!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #5 of 24

LOL, Bob! Kriskoik, forget the masses and join the chosen few and post a video of yourself for MA.

post #6 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriskoik View Post

Would anybody know approximately how many  skiers annually use video analysis in USA/World?

 

Thx


Why do you ask? Are you working on a business model or business plan? If so what kind of product or service?
 

 

post #7 of 24
Thread Starter 

Yes you nailed it, writing a business plan. Too early to talk in details but its video editing software amongst other things on smart phones. Perhaps somebody can guess approximate percentage of skiers using video analysis?

 

Thanks,

Kris

post #8 of 24

Just methodology thoughts, not answers:

1.  get the number of high school and college ski racers. (assume 95% use video)

2. write to ski schools and ask about video in lessons (assuming you get no answer, do a web search, it will not be high except for special programs/clinics, etc.)

3. identify the number from USSA of masters racers (assume 95% use video)

4. identify the number of participants at higher level ski camps (racing and non-racing) (assume 100% use video)

5. Make some guess as to the number of other skiers using video for something other than memories (but this number is going to be very small, definitely less than 1% and probably a lot less)

6. don't forget the snowboarders but I don't know how to derive numbers for them

 

post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 

Thats a great reply thanks man!

post #10 of 24

Actually its ma'am v man...but you're welcome. I thing my HS racer ratio is probably high more like 70%. College would be 100% for the competitive divisions  and lower for the more "club" type racing at some schools.

post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 

Sorry about that :). Thanks for that!

post #12 of 24
I guess you'll have to define "using video analysis." Video review runs the gamut from rerunning the day's helmet cam video while your drunk buddies go "Dude...that was AAWWWsome," to video shot specifically for movement analysis followed by frame-by-frame scrutiny with a qualified coach. The numbers would vary widely on either end of the spectrum, but somewhere in between must lie the threshold that you would consider "using video analysis." And I would assume that the capabilities and features of your editing application would have something to do with defining that threshold for your purposes.

For what it's worth, as you may have surmised from my second post above, I'm not much of a fan of cell phone video for serious movement analysis, even though I'll admit that some of today's smart phones do a much better job than they used to. If your application can make cell phone video useful for real MA, you'll be onto something! But it is very difficult to capture the good quality, close-up video of skiers that I would prefer to see.

I hope you're getting some of the information that you need, Kriskoik. Keep us posted!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 

Hey Bob,

 

Thanks for the great reply. Yes indeed footage is filmed with smart phone as most of them are already pretty good at it and within a year or so will be even better. Analysis will be done by experts in each field. 

 

If anybody else has any ideas of percentage of video analysis users in skiing please let me know. I will let you all know about product closer to the time of release.

 

Thanks,

Kris

post #14 of 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kriskoik View Post

If anybody else has any ideas of percentage of video analysis users in skiing please let me know. I will let you all know about product closer to the time of release.


2%?

What percentage of skiers take lessons? Then divide that by at least 3-5.

Racers a whole different story. - close to 100%

Use video: 30% and climbing fast. Soon to approach the percentage of smart phone users, what's that, 50%?, even if they don't use smart phones for video.

Agree that smart phone video is usually awful. If you can't zoom, why bother?

Problem is that helmet cams will account for a lot of video now.

 

 

 

post #15 of 24

This isn't a size of the market question as much as the potential size of the market (sorta like the market for iphones before they were introduced). If you can address the challenges of capturing decent quality footage (that's both a hardware problem and an operator problem) and getting access to decent coaching, you'll create a far larger market than what is now available to sell to. There's already a another thread on this (quick coach). Go look at v1 / Interactive Frontiers and see how successful they've been. To quote Astro from the Jetsons "Rotsa Ruck".

post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Quote:

Agree that smart phone video is usually awful. If you can't zoom, why bother?
Problem is that helmet cams will account for a lot of video now.

And helmet-cam video is usually pretty bad too--and nearly useless for movement analysis. I do wish that more people would realize that just because you have a video camera does not mean that everything you do is worth watching or posting to YouTube.

Which brings me back to Kriskoik's application. ANY amount or type of editing is likely to be an improvement!

Best regards,
Bob
post #17 of 24

Great question!

 

I bought my first digital camera this summer to record pics and video of hiking 4,000 footers in the White Mountains.  When the National Ski Patrol catalog arrived a few weeks ago, they had a video analysis software package for sale (Question, why did PSIA not offer this???).  It then occurred to me that offering video to ski students would be a great teaching tool, as long as I could deliver content in some meaningful way during or after the lesson, meaning other than the tiny screen on the camera; perhaps on a tablet or ipad type of device.  I think students serious about improving, especially telemark cross-overs would be very interested. 

 

has anyone done this? 

post #18 of 24
Thread Starter 

Thanks again to everybody for great feedback. I have to say this is forum is much better and friendlier than some golf and tennis forums are!!!

 

Kris

post #19 of 24


Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Barnes View Post


And helmet-cam video is usually pretty bad too--and nearly useless for movement analysis. I do wish that more people would realize that just because you have a video camera does not mean that everything you do is worth watching or posting to YouTube.
Which brings me back to Kriskoik's application. ANY amount or type of editing is likely to be an improvement!
Best regards,
Bob
 

But Bob, how unelightened of you!

 

True, many are worse than this: Except I must be the idiot, because it's been seen 122 million times:

 

 


 

 

post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Great question!

 

I bought my first digital camera this summer to record pics and video of hiking 4,000 footers in the White Mountains.  When the National Ski Patrol catalog arrived a few weeks ago, they had a video analysis software package for sale (Question, why did PSIA not offer this???).  It then occurred to me that offering video to ski students would be a great teaching tool, as long as I could deliver content in some meaningful way during or after the lesson, meaning other than the tiny screen on the camera; perhaps on a tablet or ipad type of device.  I think students serious about improving, especially telemark cross-overs would be very interested. 

 

has anyone done this? 

There's another thread on Epic where someone is trying to develop a phone app for video MA. Interactive Frontiers has free software called V1 for use on PCs. No need to buy anything.
 

 

post #21 of 24

Check this high speed cam  video from Julien Lizeroux 

http://vimeo.com/29270937

post #22 of 24

yves,

Your post shows a good example of video that is posted on the Internet that would be suitable for movement analysis. There are a few out there. Let's remember the point of the thread is to determine the current size of the market for ski video analysis.

post #23 of 24

One more video

post #24 of 24

 

yvesski, very nice video, but both of these don't belong in this thread. It would be better to post them in say racing. Or, start a thread  here in the instruction forum if you wish to discuss some technique.

Also, identify what we're looking at as in person, place, date. Otherwise, it leads to mass confusion, chaos, uncertain death, and sneezing Pandas.(see above)

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