Best Ski Jacket Shell? - Page 2

First time I hear of Haglofs. Just checked their site, they have really nice stuff.

 

 

You can sometimes find good deals in the outdoor section at Mashall's and TJ Max.

 

I bought a North Face shell (black) there 4 or 5 years back and wear it as a every day back and forth to work shell with a Marmmont Fleece under it.

 

Even sat on the side of Mt Washington this past june in it while working during the Climb to the Clouds. It rained, as usual, but the shell kept me dry and the fleece kept me warm. The shell worked so well at keeping the water out...I bent down one time and watched water run off the shell for a few seconds, it had puddled up in the fabric.

 

I mainly ski in a yellow North face shell, I have a few different shells all of them major name brands. They all work great. I have been doing this skiing thing for years now, go the a good ski shop and look through the racks, if your serious about your skiing, buy good outer wear.

 

 

 

 

Also should mention if you going goretex there are different levels: paclite, performance, pro and soft shell. Soft shell being the warmest for winter and therefore not 4 season wearable. 

Paclite is meant to be used in storms but usually carried in a pack. 

 

Choosing a good shell is more about features, and fit. Goretex or other membranes will keep water out 100% (as long as there is seam taping, welding etc) 

The exterior materials will differ widely in noise, stretch, softness and durability. ie. a paclite shell runs the risk of the membrane being damaged against trees or rocks. So just something else to consider :) 

 

 

I was looking for shells this year too.  I ended up getting an Orage JP auclair (goretex soft shell).  It is sweet.  Hasn't been tested yet but looks quality and has a ton of great pockets etc.  Looked at Arcteryx too.

I've found it difficult to get everything you need or want in a shell -- waterproofing, zip off hood, interior and exterior pockets, etc.  The hardshell that definitely hit it out of the park for me this year was the Patagonia Powder Bowl mentioned earlier.  Here's my review on GearGuide.  On the softshell front, the Cloudveil RPK is still a great choice.  And I'd also recommend the Sierra Designs Savage which has a great interior lining. 

 

Best of luck on your search.

Have an Arcteryx jacket and a Patagonia Powder Bowl and each has its merits.  I had an insulated Powder Bowl and the zipper broke, so now I have a new GoreTex non-insulated Powder Bowl.  If one were to assume similar base/midlayers, here's the short version on each, IMO:

 

Patagonia Powder Bowl - bombproof; lots heavier than Arc; lots of pockets; longer/looser fit; fabric is louder/more crinkly; nice collar/hood/zips

 

Patagonia Insulated Powder Bowl - same as non-insulated, but way heavier; last year's version was less crinkly with H2No fabric; zipper went out after 2.5 seasons.  Liked insulated, but got the new non-insulated on warranty and have good midlayers, so whatev.

 

Arcteryx Scorpion - bombproof; light; pockets out of way of belt for pack; great hood/zippers/drawstings; athletic fit, surprisingly warm; far warmer than non-insulated Powder Bowl.  (Scorpion ~ Stingray ~ more athletic fit, but like Sabre)  pics here:  http://www.epicski.com/t/108026/fs-arcteryx-jacket-cloudveil-vest-aigle-goretex-pants

 

I have some bright pants so a black Powder Bowl works better for me than my Arcteryx.  If I had a black Arcteryx like the Scorpion, I'd prefer that over the Powder Bowl.  YMMV...

 

 

I have been nothing but happy with all the Arc'teryx stuff I have (shell and pants). It has everything it needs and nothing that it doesn't but, unfortunately, rarely goes on sale.  The hood on the shells is a bit big (They are made primarily for mountaneeering and climbing and have to fit over a helmet, I guess) but the adjustments work really well and they will easily accomadate a normal human head. The stuff is REALLY durable.  I have at least 200 days on my bib pants and jacket and I am sure not shopping for anything new right now.

I consider the large hood to be a plus.  On real snowy days, I put the hood right over my ski helmet. 

 

I've never owned an Arc'teryx, so can some one give me the short story on why they seem to be the cats azz?  Also, has North Face fallen out of vogue these days?  They always used to be in the top 5.

They share the cat's asz with a number of brands, IMO.

 

All the top brands make a highest level model that is state of the art.

Where's this top 5 list?

 

Arcteryx uses top of the line materials in all of their gear... Gore Tex, Core Loft, etc. They are made to be extremely functional. What impresses me the most is how light weight their gear is. It makes a difference when you're wearing it. I can only imagine how much difference it makes for climbing. Compare an Arc shell to a similar North Face or a Patagonia, and it's pretty significant. It's not "resort gear" like Bogner or Kjus. Hence, it has something of a hardcore image which helps make it the cats azz. But as davluri said, there are plenty of other brands, too. I don't think the top of the line North Face (Summit Series i think?) or Patagonia, or a number of other brands are any lower in quality, but they do have a slightly different mission than Arc from what it seems. 

 

I can't agree on the fit of Patagonia's ski jackets (or most of their other jackets for that matter) - I find them to be very boxy - the antithesis of a slim/athletic cut.  Don't get me wrong - I love Patagonia for a dozen different reasons, one of which is their warranty (which I agree is the best in the business, alongside LL Bean), and if I had my choice my closet would be stocked with their stuff, but unfortunately only their "slim fit" pieces fit me.

 

As for the OP's question, it all depends on what you're looking for in a ski jacket - what's best to one may not be best to another depending on type of use, conditions, personal physiology, preferences, etc., and features that are critical to one person may not be of much value to another.  For example, if you sweat like a cold can of Coke on a hot summer day, you'll be miserable in a jacket with a low breathability rating, but if you tend not to sweat much, then paying more for something with the highest such rating would be a waste and overkill.  Similarly, if you only ski on blue-bird days, the best jacket for you might well be a softshell rather than a hardshell.

 

In terms of brands, the first thing you should be concerned about is fit/cut. It doesn't matter at all if a brand makes the best gear in the world if it doesn't fit you (see my note on Patagonia above). Then focus on the features and attributes that matter the most to you. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure what shells you compared, but the top of the line North Face and Patagonia shells are pretty comparable to the top of the line Arc Teryx shells in terms of weight and materials.  Again, different cuts, slightly different features, etc., but the top of the line stuff from all 3 companies is all pretty bomber (the mid and lower end Patagonia stuff is pretty high quality as well, whereas I think the mid and lower end TNF stuff is borderline junk).

Edited by epkdadoo - 1/18/12 at 6:37pm

There stuff generally has two fits, regular and slim'ish. Climbing jackets are slim fit and have longer sleeves, ski specific are usually the boxier fit you mention. It's listed in the catalogues. And of course, if the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it. 

 

I picked up a North Face Summit Series shell (Terkko) at REI on sale for $235.  Goretex and the thing is virtually weightless.  It probably isn't the most bombproof shell in the world as that weightlessness has tradeoffs, but the comfort is incredible and it has a good basic feature set.  I didn't see anything close for the price.  I am 6'2" 175 lbs and the large fits me perfectly.  

 

I like TNF as they often have stuff for us poor ectomorphs.

 

 

I just bought the Marmot Alpinist shell at backcountry.com, discounted by 30%.  It has outstanding features and offers the Gore-tex Pro shell, which is one of the best materials you can have in a bombproof hard shell.  I'm 6'4", 190 lbs with long arms and an athletic build, and the L fits excellent.  I found the fit and quality to be even better than the Norrona shell I had purchased the week before the sale...I returned the Norrona.  

I was a TNF guy for a few years, I still like their ski pants (incursion) cause they fit me perfectly. Jackets not a fan of anymore, they don't last long, especially the shoulder when I carry my skis.

I have had real good luck with oakley jackets not the best on the market but I bought mine BNWT for 60$ at an oakley store...and that you cannot beat

The thing that keeps me from buying arcteryx is the hoods don't unzip, otherwise I would have pulled the trigger, I don't like being forced into wearing a hood and don't think it's comfortable having it folded down.

I love Arcteryx but I do agree with your point. You would think for $400 - $500 shells they would include detachable hoods or something.
 

 

The OP's question was in relation to shells, and if you take closer look at the catalogues you'll see that Patagonia doesn't have a single shell in a slim fit, including in the climbing category.

After much research and bargain hunting, I finally broke down and bought an Arc Stingray at full retail last winter. I had some initial buyers remorse, only for the fact that I couldn't believe I paid so much for what seems to be so little. 

 

That didn't last long, as I quickly found the jacket to be awesome. 

 

I found virtually no deals on Arc in size L. Mediums? Several. Same with XXL. 

 

When deciding to drop so much money on a shell,  I wanted to be able to use it for more than just skiing, because I don't ski enough to justify paying close to $500 for a shell.  For that reason, I bought it in black, which for me is more versatile. I think I've worn it at least once a month since last February. Even trout fishing in the Appalachians this summer in the rain.  Had iit on yesterday in the rain running errands around town. 

 

Im getting my money's worth for sure. 

 

I love the versatility. Ive added a Patagonia nano puff to wear under it on cold days.

 

Id like to have a soft shell as wellbut I think my wife would have me committed. I tried to find a Cloudveil RPK last year, but they weren't available then. To be honest, a great softshell isn't going to be as versatile assuming you want versatile. 

 

I would like the option of being able to remove the hood as well, but I'm guessing that making it removable sacrifices some waterproofness? Wen trying to keep it ergonomic at the same time?

Proshell lets air out but that also means it lets air in. I have literally felt the air coming in on a descent, which I don't really like. The effect of feeling cold is reduced with a thicker material like the Arcteryx Theta SV. But still, if you're a cold person be careful with "breathability" - it works both ways. 

 Theta SV is Pro Shell.  Maybe you are thinking of "Active Shell" which is used in Arcteryx "FL" series jackets.

I think Active Shell is a Gore-tex equivalent to eVent and maybe Neoshell.  Though you would have to be going

pretty fast for air to migrate through Gore-tex membrane.  Zippers leak and necks and hems.

 

This year sales will come early (the winter that wasn't). They have already started.

Never felt any air leaking in my sidewinder, even when I'm bombing down a run. You do lose heat with a thin outer layer like my sidewinder though.

Hah!

But to be fair P-gucci has changed its fit quite a few times in the 25 years I've been using their stuff. For example I have an R2 fleece from 5 years ago that has shorter-than-34" sleeves (seem 33" to me), a softshell hoody from 3 years ago that has much longer arms (34" or maybe 34.5"), and a merino zip-t from 2 years ago that has at least 1.5" of extra sleeve length on me. Normally I wear 34" sleeves. All these items are medium! Their pants have been a crapshoot over my lifetime. I had some Guide shell pants from 87 or so that were really short in the medium size (maybe 31" inseam), and some pant or another from 3 years ago that is also medium but fits more like it's a large -- big in the waist for the stated 32" size, and the legs must be 35" inseam!

To answer the original Q, I alternate between the Patagonia softshell Guide Hoody from 3 years ago, and a lower-end Cloudveil gore-tex shell from 1 year ago. I like them equally, but the Cloudveil's shell is not all that burly -- I'm expecting the trees will rip it some day.

The Proshell comes in different thicknesses from 340 to 480N. The Sidewinder and Theta SV use 480N.  

.

Face fabrics have different weights.

The gore membrane is the same throughout a

particular "line"(ProShell). Remove the membrane

and wind will come through.

Edited by John J - 2/15/12 at 2:07pm

I'm really liking the DryQ Elite stuff from Mountain Hardware.  I've got a shell jacket and an insulated jacket.  Breathe really well, fully water/windproof, not crinkly, well cut, and don't break the bank.  I really think MH has a winner with these.

I have had the same experience. I have tried everything out there and always come back to Descente/DNA. I have learnt the hard way that, if I go on a ski trip and bring a $600 Arcteryx, a $500 Patagonia and a $300 Descente, I am going to ski in the Descente.