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post #31 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I'm confusedconfused.gif.  You say that 90% of her skiing is on a small bumpy ski hill in NY with too much grooming.  Then you say the shop is recommending a 96 mm rockered ski and the 90 mm Line Prophet.  Is she the typical Scrambler 6 graduate (i.e. grade 1), or is she more of an old-school mid-performance skier who tried the scramlber 6 and didn't like it (College graduate who got stuck in grade 1 for reason's beyond her control)?

 

Let's give the shop owner the benefit of the doubt, and assume he has her ability correct.  It sounds like he is selling her a ski for 10% of here skiing, the trip out west.  Unless small bumpy overgroomed resorts are very different in NY than they are here, I think she should get something more like a Dynastar Exclusive Active and rent the Flite or S3 when she goes out west. It would also a better ski on which to improve skills.

 

 


Ghost - unfortunately the owner at the shop didn't instill a lot of confidence.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Grade 1.  I think maybe I've under described her skills / ability -- I tend to do that with myself as well.

 

She is quite a capable skier, solidly in the high intermediate range, and can step up her game when she's feeling confident. So for example, at Steamboat she skis well on trails like Storm Peak North and South, does decent on The Edge (but a little hesitant), but got nervous in the Shadows and Closet -- and bailed out before the very bottom of those. At Alta a couple years ago she handled a few runs down Catherine's area with confidence, good speed...also was capable (and comfortable) on much of the stuff off the Collins lift. She took an intermediate class at Alta and she should have been moved up to something higher.  On our first visit to Jay Peak last year she was comforatable and happy on runs like JFK, Everglade, Canyon Land...the upper part of Power Line got her nervous because of some exposed ice and rocks. At Stowe, where we've unfortuantely never had great conditions, she's mostly avoided the harder runs, but was ok on things like Centerlline and Hayride when the conditions were softish, loved the glades on skier right of Nosedive, reluctantly survived Chin Clip on an day that seemed like it would be soft but was bumped up and icy.  Winter Park - loved the glades off of Perry's Peak, did well on Drunken Frenchman,  Gambler, Aces and Eights, and got in over her head on got a little freaked out on upper part of Thunderbird skiing in some wind packed powder.

 

So - if you're familiar with those places and runs, to summarize she skis really well (skis the terrain/line, doesnt' have to skid to slow, looks for small kickers to get air, has good speed) on almost any intermediate run anywhere, hates icy conditions, is pretty comfortable in glades but gets a little nervous on steep runs where she can see WAY down the hill.  One thing that's kind of funny is that she's not afraid of hitting some decent sized jumps in the terrain parks.

 

FWIW, the S3 we were looking at said 92mm underfoot on it. Not sure why, but that's what the ski said. I held it up to the Flite and it didn't seem 6mm wider so I'd tend to believe the 92.

 

The reason I think the Flite would work well for her is that she wants a one-ski do all ski, she likes to be off-piste as much as we can, and I feel that what's holding her back the most is only confidence.  My experience moving to a wider ski was that I suddenly had this great stable platform from which to work...if that  makes any sense. I was able to start pushing my personal limits of  how and where I skied because I always felt like I coudl get back to center and get stable when I needed to. Crud that I used to avoid becuase my skis would hook up became fun as I either plowed or carved through it, or looked for piled up snow to get a little air. Knowing how she skis, I think she would feel the same.

 

I'll take a look at the Dynastar's you mentioned. If we still leaned toward the Flite, what would be your thoughts on size for her?

 


 

 

post #32 of 35

It would seem your wife's lack of confidence comes more from the skis than from her own ability/mind set.  If the ski doesn't respond to her input, it robs her of confidence -- like driving on bald summer tires in the snow.  I'm with Ghost though: I wonder if she shouldn't be on more of a wide carver, given that 90% of your skiing is on eastern, over-groomed runs.  I'd second the Dynastar, but you could also look at the Nordica Conquer, Blizzard Black Pearl or Volkl Kenja.  If she really does trees and fresh, these won't be the optimal skis...but do you really do trees and fresh at Greek Peak??? 

 

The Flite isn't a bad thought if she truly wants to get off the piste, and of the two skis you're looking at, it would be better than the S3 (too soft-snow oriented).  165 is not too short (more sporty and maneuverable and better suited for small vert areas like Greek Peak) but may eventually be too short; 170 would be a grow-into experience. 

post #33 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post


Not at all...BUT...as I've mentioned, it's not easy to get her to move on to new gear. So whatever length we get will be with her for a while most likely.

 

Based on her weight, height, and how I've described her skiing -- what length would you suggest?  And what mounting points for the 165 or 172?

 



I'm glad Phil chimed in with his thoughts on the Flite, since he has some hands on experience with both the S3 and the Flite.

As for the length, with her stats, I'm not sure she needs a 172cm ski.  She may do well with it but she may also do well with a 165.  

 

I've typically liked skis in the 170 ish length but stepped back a bit to  162 carver, and 166 in my Black Pearl and really love it.  That length has been awesome for my skiing and I have no real desire to go longer. (I'm only slightly shorter, and 5 lbs less than her)

 

Don't assume that she'll grow out of a 165.  

 

If I were you I'd ask the ski shop(s) if they have demo's.  Most often they do have demos and take the price of the demo off the price of purchasing a ski from them.  

Get a couple demo skis set up for her and have a great time letting her figure out what she likes, and wants.

 

 

post #34 of 35
Thread Starter 

tch - yes, really do trees :)  There are a few good places for trees at GP...there would be a lot more if they'd clear out some brush and stop closing off everything that they don't mark as a run on the trail map. Fresh?  As much as possible of course...they seem to have gotten better about not grooming it up right away in the past couple of years.

 

Appreciate all the comments from everyone.  I think if she decides to go with the Flite it seems like the 165 would be ok for her...glad to get some opinions on that. 

 

I'm pretty sure the shop weve' been going do doesn't do demos.  We do have another local shop I can check out for that...much bigger.

 

post #35 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by billyymc View Post


Ghost - unfortunately the owner at the shop didn't instill a lot of confidence.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by Grade 1.  I think maybe I've under described her skills / ability -- I tend to do that with myself as well.

 

She is quite a capable skier, solidly in the high intermediate range, and can step up her game when she's feeling confident. So for example, at Steamboat she skis well on trails like Storm Peak North and South, does decent on The Edge (but a little hesitant), but got nervous in the Shadows and Closet -- and bailed out before the very bottom of those. At Alta a couple years ago she handled a few runs down Catherine's area with confidence, good speed...also was capable (and comfortable) on much of the stuff off the Collins lift. She took an intermediate class at Alta and she should have been moved up to something higher.  On our first visit to Jay Peak last year she was comforatable and happy on runs like JFK, Everglade, Canyon Land...the upper part of Power Line got her nervous because of some exposed ice and rocks. At Stowe, where we've unfortuantely never had great conditions, she's mostly avoided the harder runs, but was ok on things like Centerlline and Hayride when the conditions were softish, loved the glades on skier right of Nosedive, reluctantly survived Chin Clip on an day that seemed like it would be soft but was bumped up and icy.  Winter Park - loved the glades off of Perry's Peak, did well on Drunken Frenchman,  Gambler, Aces and Eights, and got in over her head on got a little freaked out on upper part of Thunderbird skiing in some wind packed powder.

 

So - if you're familiar with those places and runs, to summarize she skis really well (skis the terrain/line, doesnt' have to skid to slow, looks for small kickers to get air, has good speed) on almost any intermediate run anywhere, hates icy conditions, is pretty comfortable in glades but gets a little nervous on steep runs where she can see WAY down the hill.  One thing that's kind of funny is that she's not afraid of hitting some decent sized jumps in the terrain parks.

 

FWIW, the S3 we were looking at said 92mm underfoot on it. Not sure why, but that's what the ski said. I held it up to the Flite and it didn't seem 6mm wider so I'd tend to believe the 92.

 

The reason I think the Flite would work well for her is that she wants a one-ski do all ski, she likes to be off-piste as much as we can, and I feel that what's holding her back the most is only confidence.  My experience moving to a wider ski was that I suddenly had this great stable platform from which to work...if that  makes any sense. I was able to start pushing my personal limits of  how and where I skied because I always felt like I coudl get back to center and get stable when I needed to. Crud that I used to avoid becuase my skis would hook up became fun as I either plowed or carved through it, or looked for piled up snow to get a little air. Knowing how she skis, I think she would feel the same.

 

I'll take a look at the Dynastar's you mentioned. If we still leaned toward the Flite, what would be your thoughts on size for her?

 


 

 


Grade 1 is the first grade they put your school children in after kindergarden.  The meaning behind the analogy is that she has skills from her prior skiing and should not be placed in the same group as some never-ever who just got some Scrambler 6s as her first skis.

 

From your description of her abilities and runs she is comfortable on I think she should be on what is marketed as an expert-level ski in order to improve.  I am more than ever convinced that the skis she was on were holding her back.  Here is a little thread for you to read, from about three or four years ago (wow how the time flies) about a skier and other skiers of admittedly lower ability, but it illustrates the point.

http://www.epicski.com/t/65117/intermediate-skiers-who-prefer-expert-skis

 

I don't know what skis you were on before you switched to your wider skis that were more stable, but there are a lot of things that make skis stable other than width.  My old Super-G skis are only about 67 or 68 mm at the waist, yet they are amongst the most stable skis I have skied.  Width would definitely make skiing deep snow easier, but it is not required for stability.

 

As to hooking tips in crud, the main issue here is turn radius.  Unfortunately the ideal turn radius for improving skills is about 13 m.  The ideal radius for making crud skiing easy is about 21 m (or more).  Here's a post about that from this thread

http://www.epicski.com/t/65305/slalom-skis-in-powder-crud


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

Both the shape and the stiffness of your SLs put you at a bit of a disadvantage in deep cruddy snow.

I've only skied really deep snow on skis that were skinny and not meant for it, but I recently got the chance to compare my Fischer WC SC (165 cm, 13 m side cut), to my Volant Machete g (from 2002, 195 cm radius 20 something). Having previously skied RX8s to a depth of 8" finding them great, I didn't know what all the fuss was about, but I found out.

The morning of the "test", 1 January 2008, I skied with my daughter at the local speed bump using my Fischer WC SC (she was on Porsche slalom carvers like the Volkl P50 slalom carver). It had snowed to a depth of over 8 inches. My car was seriously dragging it's underbelly, and the skis disappeared from view as the snow was around mid shin level. It was also pretty wet heavy snow. The tricky part was that with the wide shovel and pronounced shape, the tips would hook up and try to dial up a turn that snow surface and the rest of the ski could not deliver, resulting in too much lateral motion at the tips for low tipping angles, and too much sideways skiing period for big angles.

Latter as the snow became more variable with skiers tracks, bits of tracked out snow, bits of snow piled up into deeper mounds it became even trickier. You had to be very quick at adjusting your angle of attack as the snow conditions at the tips changed, to make sure you didn't dial up more turn from the tips and keep the midsection flexed enough turn. It was more difficult for my daughter, who is only an intermediate skier; she actually fell trying to turn on a big deep pile of wet crud.

My daughter got soaked to the bone and was cold, so at lunch I brought her home, and returned with the Machete G skis. Skiing the same snow with these skis was a walk in the park. They erased any irregularities, plowed through crud piles like they weren't there, and allowed me to turn where ever I wanted with ease just by tipping them up to any angle I fancied.

 

14 to 16 m might be a good compromise for turn radius.

 

You could get a 20 buck subscription to real skiers (don't tell you wife eek.gif), then make a list of skis that have the black expert Icon and blue and green skier icons, a suitable radius, and a wide speed range.  I have found after skiing a lot of skis that they rate, that if the ski doesn't have the black skier icon included it is not up to high performance skiing on hard snow.  I have also found their speed ranges to be fairly accurate. 

 

Good luck.

 

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