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Swix wax and waxing questions

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Hello there, I'm new to this forum and I'm learning English so my English won't be perfect.

 

I bought Swix Base Prep BP88 and Swix Cera Nove LF6 from Amazon.

 

I live in Colorado, so it's cold during winter.

 

I have my first brand-new ski (Rossignol S86 All Mountain. No wax job done.) and I never waxed skis myself before.

 

I don't race and freestyle, so I ski just for fun and training. I'm level 7.

 

I am pretty confused because I heard that BP88 is for new skis.

 

I don't know if it matters or affects my skis if I use BP88 every time before I apply LF6.

 

Here are some questions.

 

 

 

1. Is BP88 only for new skis?

 

2. Can I (or should I) use BP88 as a base layer every time before I apply LF6 on my skis?

 

I heard that I should brush - put base layer - scrape off - put final layer - scrape off. I will probably ski once a week.

 

3. If yes, basically all I need to do is every time I wax my skis, I need to brush my skis, apply BP88 and then LF6?

 

4. How many layers of BP88 and LF6 should I apply for the first time?

 

5. How many layers of BP88 and LF6 should I apply after the first time?

 

6. How often (or when) should I wax my skis?

 

7. Can I use BP88 for hot scraping my skis instead of CH10? I read an article which said I need to hot scrape with CH10, apply BP88 as a base layer, and apply LF6 as a final layer.

 

8. If BP88 is only for new skis, should I just apply both BP88 and LF6 for the first time, then apply only LF6 after the first time?

 

9. When you wax your skis, do you put both base layer and final layer or only final layer?

 

 

BP88 - color red / LF6 - color blue

 

 

Thank you for reading!

post #2 of 26

Well first off, if you're only skiing once a week, you don't have to wax once a week. Waxing once every 5-7 days on snow is sufficient. So rather than once a week, once every month and a half for the weekly skier is fine. The BP wax is just that, it's for base prep. Drip it on, iron it on, and hot scrape it. This is to essentially clean the bases. Hot scrape as many times until the wax comes off without dirt in it. After this, a single application of your on snow wax is sufficient. The wax on a ski doesn't go on in 'layers', like wax on a car or on wood. You use an iron on the ski in order to warm up the base material of the ski, which allows the wax to be absorbed into the base of the ski. After applying the wax, you scrape off the excess. So you're never 'layering' the wax.

 

Another note on wax, you should be using different waxes for different conditions. Most waxes have a temperature range, so pay attention to that when you wax. A cold weather wax won't perform as well in warm weather, and vice versa. Colorado really isn't that cold, and you will frequently be faced with temperatures of over 21 degrees. You'll also be facing weather colder than 16 degrees. So you'll need more than just a single temp wax.

 

Overall, if you're just a recreational skier, a basic waxing is all you need. Drip it, iron it, scrape it, and go.

post #3 of 26

I just started waxing and tuning my own skis last season, so maybe I can add some insight to a couple of your questions. I attended two "tuning clinics"- one at REI and the other at a local independent shop. Neither of the instructors advocated a hot scrape. They also both said to avoid using a base cleaner, as this can dry out the bases. I've heard differing views on both of these points- just wanted to let you know what I heard from some folks that seemed pretty knowledgeable.

 

As freeski919 said, you want to pick the wax for the temps you will likely be encountering. I was always told that in drier snow (which Colorado tends to have), shoot for the colder wax. For example, let's say the ideal wax for the day is CH7, but you only have CH6 and CH8 in your toolbox. You'd be better off going with the CH6 than the CH8.

 

I would usually wax after 2 or 3 days on the slopes. I'm sure you could go longer than that, but I actually enjoy the waxing process, and was told that you really can't do it too often!

 

Again, I'm no expert, but it seems that when you're starting out, simpler is better.

post #4 of 26

 

 

1.   No.    You can use it on any skis you want, if you want to do the work and don't mind using up some wax.

 

2.    You can.   It is not needed to do that unless the bases are really filthy.

 

3.   What do you mean by 'brush'?   Nylon?  Brass?   If you mean nylon, brush /after/ the BP88 and after the LF6.

 

Procedure for BP88: 

- wipe surface dirt  off  with paper towel or something

- apply BP88

- scrape while still warm

- nylon brush

- repeat above with another BP88 layer

 

Procedure for LF6:

- apply LF6

- wait until cool

- scrape

- brush

 

4.  LF6 is a little bit spendy for an everyday Colorado wax.   Consider stocking up on CH6 and maybe some CH4 for the cold days.   

 

3 preparation hot scrapes and  1 wax-of-the-day is what I would call a decent start.

 

6.  The answer is 'whenever you feel like you need it or want to'

 

 

post #5 of 26

Be sure to stone grind them once in a while.

 

ski rocks.jpg

post #6 of 26

FKNA

post #7 of 26

Always brush first to get rid of dirt. Dirt is the enemy.Dirt makes skis slow.Not a big problem when it snows frequently.More so in spring.

Hot waxing is alway better.You get better penetration.In the nordic racing world, waxing is taken very seriously and is very scientific  On snow testing is done at every venue before races. If rubbing on wax was the way to go Nords would be doing it.They are not.

With new skis you want to apply a generous amount of BP88 and run the iron back and forth for 5 minutes.Let cool. Do it again, heat the wax up for 5 minutes.New skis can absorb a lot of wax. Do it again if you have the time.Scrape warm or cool, doesn't really matter that much.Scrape well.Take more wax off with either a scotchbrite pad or Swix fibertex pad.

Swix LF6 is a waste of money.LF-low flouro waxes work best above freezing. I could see maybe using LF8 or 10 in spring conditions but you're not racing.Buy a 900 gram bar of CH6 if that's the temp range you want for 75 bucks.It will last you a few seasons.

Use the BP88 at the beginning of the season as above. If the skis seem really dry mid season, you could repeat the above process.

Wax the skis with the LF6 or wax of the day every 3-6 times you ski.The way to know is to look at the bases. They will look dry characterized by a white-ishness especially on the inside edges.

So to review, brush to clean, hot wax appropriate temp wax, scrape well, fibertex and finish with brushing.The bases will look shiny.

Brushes. I recommend a brass brush for cleaning and a nylon brush for wax of the day.Or buy a combi nylon/brass.

If you don't own a ski vise, buy one. It makes waxing much easier and faster.

Properly waxed skis will get you accross the flats more easily and generally make your skiing more enjoyable. Good luck.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 

 

Thank you all!

post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 

 

Thank you for your advice.

 

Here's what I have for waxing.

 

 

 

Swix LF6

 

Swix BP88

 

Swix white nylon brush(after waxing) and bronze brush (before waxing)

 

Swix vise

 

Swix T74 iron

 

Swix Plexi

 

 

 

I'm just a recreational skier and yea my jaw dropped when I saw the price of LF6.

 

I'm going to get CH6 after I finish LF6.

 

 

I have some more questions though

 

 

1. Do I need to get something else for waxing? Fibertex or something like that.. As you said.

 

I heard that I need brush, wax, vise, iron, and plexi for the basic waxing.

 

 

 

It says the temperature range for LF6 is 10F to 21F.

 

2. What happens if I apply LF6 when the temperature is like 30F? If it makes my skis slower, does it make them really really slow?

 

3. Is the temperature range based on air temperature or the base of skis?

 

4. So, I just need to apply BP88 for the first time and after that I don't have to apply BP88 (which means only LF6) unless it needs to be applied?

 

 

 

 

K so the process of waxing is

 

For new skis

 

Apply BP88 and iron it for 5~10 minutes at not too high temperature - scrape off when it's still warm - repeat it like 5 times - brush my skis with nylon brush - apply LF6 - let it cool down -

 

scrape off - brush with nylon brush

 

 

After the first waxing

 

Brush with bronze brush - apply LF6 - let it cool down - scrape off - brush with nylon brush

 

 

Is it right?

 

5. How many times should I apply LF6 on my skis every time I wax? Just once?

 

6. Hot scrape is only for before the season and after the season?

 

 

Thank you so much

post #10 of 26

As a recreational skier don't you think you're over doing the whole waxing thing?

 

post #11 of 26

I pasted this from Race-Place site:

 

Base Prep

For best results on race skis you must follow a procedure to cleanse the base and break-in the structure. It's labor intensive but necessary for podium results. Here is a basic format used by top techs although each tech may have subtle variations.

  1. Cleanse ski by ironing soft Base Prep wax into base and scraping with acrylic scraper while wax is warm or liquid. Repeat several times to remove impurities such as grinding residue and fluid.
  2. Iron in Base Prep wax, cool until wax is hardened, lightly scrape and brush aggressively with BEAST Soft Stainless 3-4 times tip to tail. Follow with BEAST Stiff Bronze/HH several passes and then cut off micro hairs with several passes of a coarse fiberpad backed with a file to create even pressure across base.
  3. Clean base with Fiberlene and repeat Step 2 multiple times to mellow the grind, etch in micro structure and saturate bases with wax. Use harder hydrocarbon waxes after several repetitions of Base Prep wax.
  4. Graphite Base Prep wax may be used in Step 2 or as separate ingredient in Step 3. Graphite is an anti-static and an excellent lubricant against abrasiveness.
  5. Clean base with Fiberlene, iron-in hydrocarbon training wax, cool, scrape and brush with BEAST Soft Bronze/HH. Finish with BEAST Horsehair and polish with non-abrasive fiberpad and fiberlene. Take multiple runs on the mountain to further the break-in of your skis until they reach top speed.

Fast skis require tender loving care on a year-round basis. We recommend you maintain them at least monthly to prevent oxidizing of the base after initial preparation. - Scrape off "storage" wax, brush with BEAST Stiff Bronze/HH and Horsehair followed by fiberlene. Iron in soft-mid hydrocarbon wax for storage.

After any race or training day the skis should always be brushed out, cleaned by hot scraping ...

 

This is in case if you want to go overboard/nuts with waxing and base prep...

Now I am going to try to make it easier for you...

- Get some cheap hydrocarbon wax, iron it, hot scrape it... Once is enough, unless is spring time and the snow is dirty...

-I want you to know that the secret to fast skis, besides the base prep is mostly in brushing...

-You have to get the wax out of the structure..

-If you can't decide between 2 waxes and the temperature will change, go with the cold one 

-There is procedure called hot boxing, which can substitute like 10 times or more waxing the skis, to help saturate bases with wax.

Let's begin now:

-if you have a stiff stainless brush , do like3-4 passes tip-tail, don't press tooo hard, clean the base

-hot scrape and clean the bases, once

-get your wax of choice, rub it thick/like crayon/, then drip a little here and there, iron it let it cool. Overnight is better, but at least 3 hrs..

-if your wax  requires iron temp over 140*C use fiberlene paper

-scrape well, start with brush progression:

  stiff bronze; white nylon; short horsehair, then something softer to polish. As I said get the wax out, then polish..

 

There are plenty of other waxes on the market.. I would recommend Holmenkol Mix series wax.. The yellow and especially the red/Beta Mix/have very nice temp range suitable for most conditions, also inexpensive..

 

Last, but not least any wax is better, than no wax... Wax is to protect bases against abrasion, base burn. Unless you are doing speed event/DN, Super G/, most of the time selection of the wax wouldn't matter, because the skis are on edge, period.  Just put the wax and enjoy.. The only time that wax might actually matter is in the spring slush and even then, the structure of base is what repels/pushes water out... Hope you find this  helpful...

Cheers, Andy.

post #12 of 26

not too much pressure with the metal brushes, more with nylon and horsehair

post #13 of 26

1.  Nah,  don't worry about it for now.    Paper towels will do for anything of that sort that comes up.

 

2.   No, it does not make them really, really slow.   The exact opposite is true however:  using a warm wax in cold will make skis really, really slow.

 

Think of each ski wax as having three essential properties:   hardness, underski film creation and control, lubricity in itself.    Taking a cold wax into warm conditions affects only the 'film creation' part.      Taking a warm wax into cold conditions means both hardness is off and film control is off.    

 

Personally, I would more worry about not having a wax for super-cold (CH4 level cold) days.    Remember, the snow is often colder than the air reported in the weather report, especially when it is fresh i.e., just fallen from where temperatures are much colder than the temps in the weather report.

 

3. Hardness is based on snow temps.   Film creation & control is based on speed of skiing and air temps  (see primož' post about the difference betwen alpine and nordic glide waxing for more on this).   Rec skiers need worry about hardness only.

 

4.  Yes.  If you're only putting on LF6 you can even skip the initial bronze brushing.

 

6.  You can do the hotscrape every time you think the skis have 'lost something' or look filthier, or when you feel like it.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsh5932 View Post


 

I'm going to get CH6 after I finish LF6.

 

 

I have some more questions though

 

 

1. Do I need to get something else for waxing? Fibertex or something like that.. As you said.

 

I heard that I need brush, wax, vise, iron, and plexi for the basic waxing.

 

 

 

It says the temperature range for LF6 is 10F to 21F.

 

2. What happens if I apply LF6 when the temperature is like 30F? If it makes my skis slower, does it make them really really slow?

 

3. Is the temperature range based on air temperature or the base of skis?

 

4. So, I just need to apply BP88 for the first time and after that I don't have to apply BP88 (which means only LF6) unless it needs to be applied?

 

 

 

 

K so the process of waxing is

 

For new skis

 

Apply BP88 and iron it for 5~10 minutes at not too high temperature - scrape off when it's still warm - repeat it like 5 times - brush my skis with nylon brush - apply LF6 - let it cool down -

 

scrape off - brush with nylon brush

 

 

After the first waxing

 

Brush with bronze brush - apply LF6 - let it cool down - scrape off - brush with nylon brush

 

 

Is it right?

 

5. How many times should I apply LF6 on my skis every time I wax? Just once?

 

6. Hot scrape is only for before the season and after the season?

 

 

Thank you so much



 


Edited by cantunamunch - 10/31/11 at 10:03am
post #14 of 26

This may be helpful : http://www.swixschool.com/

post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by madMads View Post

This may be helpful : http://www.swixschool.com/


I checked that website already but I don't know if it only happens to me, I can't find English translated version.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

As a recreational skier don't you think you're over doing the whole waxing thing?

 


Maybe I'm over doing the whole thing since I'm just a recreational skier, but I just wanted to make it sure.

 

post #16 of 26

It's available in Norwegian, English and German. Choose language in the second window.

post #17 of 26

bp88 can be used as an all purpose wax or a prep wax. i race and i use different bp's depending on the temperature. it is also good for your skis as it will help clean your bases clean and keep your ski going fast after the lf comes off. i would wax your skis every other use or whenever you feel necessary depending on the temperature.

post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsh5932 View Post


I checked that website already but I don't know if it only happens to me, I can't find English translated version.

 


Maybe I'm over doing the whole thing since I'm just a recreational skier, but I just wanted to make it sure.

 



Just saying. Unless you are racing there isn't much need to get crazy with all kinds of different waxes. I bet you won't notice the difference between an all temp wax and anything else out there.

 

I've pretty much settled on Toko yellow.

 

Just wax

Scrape

Brush

 

I wax for about every 2 days skied, and even then i'm waxing sometimes twice a week.

 

Then every couple of times do a good hot scrape.

 

For a rec skier it's not worth the time to get all fancy.

post #19 of 26

Yes. The KISS principle* rules for rec skiers and snowboarders. You can always make it more complicated than it needs to be after you start out with the basics and experiment over time, different temperatures, snow types and humidity levels. Try what you have and see how you like it and tweak as necessary. Wax is cheap compared to the sport.

 

In Colorado, with often broad temperature swings, the majority of skiers and conditions will be fine with a universal paraffin/hydrocarbon wax. The LF is a nice add in the spring and won't hurt if not, BUT, your base structure will affect your glide in wet snows more than what flavor wax you put on.

 

(*Keep It Simple Skier)

post #20 of 26

Hello,

 

I have 2 boys that race so our tuning station is permanent. Our recreational skis get more attention than most because of this.  Due to the narrow range of the CH and LF waxes (and the cost) I would recommend Swix Racing Wax Red for your recreational skis.  It is biodegradable but the really big plus is its wide temperature range. 14 to 36 degrees F or -10 to +2 Celsius.After you use the BP88 to set up and/or clean your skis of course.  Below is the actual product name on the Swix site.  My wife and I are 25+ days annually and I wax every 2 days.  More for ski care than necessity.  Plus we ski in the East where we live so it is largely on ICE.  Hope this is helpful.

 

UR8 Red Bio Racing Wax, 180g

post #21 of 26
Pretty sure he went out and bought some wax in the last two years.
post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibhusky View Post

Pretty sure he went out and bought some wax in the last two years.

 

He's right about the narrowish temp ranges on Swix' main line tho. 

post #23 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinecure View Post
 

Be sure to stone grind them once in a while.

 

ski rocks.jpg


lol. No need for a heat gun there!

post #24 of 26

Well I'm late all round.  Beside the fact I didn't notice that the thread was ancient I was at our local ski shop today because I ran out of the wax I recommended.  It turns out Swix doesn't make it anymore.   Supposedly BP88 is the substitute.  Not comfortable with that.  I bought Holmenkol's Beta Mix Red which we have used with success as well.  A good wide temperature range.  7 to 25 degrees F. $24.99Cdn for 180g.

post #25 of 26
Will you use a heat gun, non British torch, or an iron with that?
post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80deg16minW View Post
 

Well I'm late all round.  Beside the fact I didn't notice that the thread was ancient I was at our local ski shop today because I ran out of the wax I recommended.  It turns out Swix doesn't make it anymore.   Supposedly BP88 is the substitute.  Not comfortable with that.  I bought Holmenkol's Beta Mix Red which we have used with success as well.  A good wide temperature range.  7 to 25 degrees F. $24.99Cdn for 180g.

Really?  I just bought some at my local REI.

 

http://www.rei.com/product/842596/swix-ur8-red-bio-racing-wax

 

I was actually looking for a 180g bar of CH8.

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