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Where Does A Skier Slow Down In Moguls - Page 3

post #61 of 79
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardDaysNight View Post



Yeah, if there's one thing I've noticed about cvj's bump skiing it's how over his head he is and his steep learning curve. Funny bunch here!

 


Scared to try something that might work? What do skiers have to loss? Funny bunch here!

 

I will try any idea. If it works I will incorperate it into my skiing, if does not work then throw it out.. A lot of posts again off subject

post #62 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post


Scared to try something that might work? What do skiers have to loss? Funny bunch here!

 

I will try any idea. If it works I will incorperate it into my skiing, if does not work then throw it out.. A lot of posts again off subject



I guess I should learn to use the little emoticon thingies. Thought it was obvious I was paying you a compliment, not the reverse. Off subject? No doubt, but skiing isn't life and death - it's more important than that. (Now where's the little "humour" icon?)

 

post #63 of 79
Thread Starter 

Over his head is a compliment?

post #64 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

Barns is right on. Except for backpedal don't need to do it.  Wacker I have skied GS skis for over 30 years in moguls. Nordica Doberman GS 183cm Or I have a pair of  Hart Javelin GS 180cm. Ski in between a racer and an instructor is the ultimate goal don't you know.

 

A gs ski will do what ever the skier wants it to do and absorb a lot of shock. A soft ski will not. Again is is about how fast the ski comes across the fall line. [Rebound}  Make QCT ski moguls race gs cruse or do any turn the skier has the skill set to.

 

As a matter of fact any one can make a pair of skis with out metal it is easy to make a wood core with a fiberglass rap. There are so many small companies out there doing it but no one but the big boys can make a real ski with wood core fiberglass rap and metal top and bottom sheet.

 

I seem to recall that in the late 70s early 80s the best bumpers on Olin were actually rockin' the Mark VIIs and Mark VIs.  Most of the people still on the Mark IV competing weren't nearly as good.  I was on K2 710 FO, but also used 812s from time to time.  Anybody got that clip of Plake flying down a bump field on 223s?

 

Oh, edit point.. I also have it on good authority that BWPA spent a lot of hours on a pair of 181 CM GSRs.  I've also skied them in bumps before but much prefer my CaBrawlers because they are much lighter. 
 

 


Edited by crgildart - 11/2/11 at 7:44am
post #65 of 79

Sorry cvj, but it was meant as a sarcastic response to Metaphor saying that the sinking down move was for people in over their heads. It was intended to highlight the fact that you are the exact opposite of "in over your head". I'll stick to my day job I guess and forego any future opportunities for light-heartednesssmile.gif

post #66 of 79

^^ I got it fine.  CVJ just needs to change the batteries in his sarcasm meter.

 

If you click the happy face above the post box, a whole bunch of emoticons pop up.

post #67 of 79


The world is a ghetto! confused.gif   I mean a strange place!wink.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



yeah and when Atomicman agrees with me something is truly wack.



 

post #68 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by HardDaysNight View Post



Yeah, if there's one thing I've noticed about cvj's bump skiing it's how over his head he is and his steep learning curve. Funny bunch here!

 


 

Lol. The "you" in "it's an option if you're in over your head" was directed to the world rather than to cvj. I'm sure cvj is a fantastic bump skier.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

There is a difference between flexing and crumpling.  My Austrian supervisor calls crumpling "collapsing at the waist".  It refers to excessive bending/breaking at the waist due to a lack of core strength where flexing implies a more even distribution of movement through all of the joints.  Flexing in an appropriate manner maintains balance, manages pressure, and leads to increased performance in turns.   


Ah, that sounds like breaking at the waist or "drinking bird", which is a no-no. I'm referring to an excessive quick flexion in knees/ankles (and some in the hip) to remove all load from the ski. Which is also a no-no if your goal is to link turns while maintaining pressure. But in other situations (like if you're going to fall off a cliff or you're beyond your comfort zone) is completely fine.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post



I used and still use large amount of flexion in my turns. Tell your examiners they are wrong about absorbing(if your doing it right)

 

The best mogul skiers have some of the largest range of motion. Another member on epic has called me gumby because of it.


For sure, flexion is great on so many levels. Flexing fast to remove all pressure from the skis is bad for performance as you lose all rebound (I think PSIA talks about rebound? CSIA does). I'll try to post a video of my mogul skiing next season--if I haven't eliminated my de-loading by then, you'll see it really clearly. 

post #69 of 79
Thread Starter 

Harddaysnight Sorry for the misconception but these threads seem to go to  the dogs really quickly. I may be a little touchy.

 

You can slow down in any turn upside or downside. It is more difficult on the backside. The skier must see where they want to stop the turn and not go by that spot as if they don't hold in this exact spot they will miss this all important spot that the turn must end now. So the skier can hit the next mogul in the right spot. If the skier misses this area he is now reacting instead of dictating.

post #70 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post


Pause yes, dead stop while skiing bumps, I don't think so.

 

Isn't this just a simple down unweighting move applied to the up side of a bump instead of on flat terrain where it creates the "Virtual Bump?



 


Actually, your upper body should continue at a relatively constant velocity down the mountain.  Your skis and legs are constantly changing speed and direction.  As you come off the top of the mogul and head into the trough your skis and legs will accelerate and pass your body.  You also extend your legs in this phase which helps keep your upper body on a steady path. 

 

Once your skis have passed through the fall line and the slope gradiant begins to lessen your skis and legs slow down.  As you skis climb up and out of the trough to pass over the top of the next mogul your legs should absorb.  This will look like your sucking up the impact with your legs, but what's actually happening is your body is continuing on a steady course and passing over and beyond your skis.

 

I find the key to control in the bumps is utilizing the mass in my upper body to manipulate my skis around.  If my upper body is constantly accelerating forward, backward, and/or side to side then it is very difficult to turn my skis exactly where I want them.  If my body stays at a near constant speed and along a reasonably straight path, I can use this stability to turn my skis wherever I want them to go.

 

To answer the question that started this thread, the upper body doesn't really slow down or speed up.  The legs start slowing down after they cross through the fall line just like they do on a groomed run.
 

 

post #71 of 79

I find that skiing bumps is often about the conditions and slope. Icy bumps versus fresh packed versus spring snow all are a bit different (and tend to get easier respectively). I pesonally avoid icy bumps and often do a lot more side sliding, stopping and washing off speed in them (although I'd class myself as a pretty decent bumps skier). Picking a line rather than throwing yourself straigh in is important. Also the more you turn and the less you straight run bumps the better for controlling your speed. If you are determined to go straight down the fall line then you need strong legs. Practice squats. Lots and lots of squats. And then some more as your legs will do all the movement and absorb all the speed / momentum. You can keep your skis on the snow and carve into the back of bumps which is a good way of slowing and looking decent in the bumps whilst moving accross the fall liine, avoid overturning with the upper body, but bigger turns in the bumps in the right line is good. Going sideways in bumps whilst getting some nice air from bump to bump without speeding up is ok I find. In spring snow you can straight run a bit more and use the bumps to wash off speed a lot - the snow is more forgiving and sloppy style doesn't matter as much. Similar in fresh packed snow, but not so much. You really need to use your knees and keep forward with the arms / body down facing the fall line but that is the same with all skiing.  

post #72 of 79
Thread Starter 

Gone skiing.

post #73 of 79

Sit on the ski, that's a good way describe it, just like it feels.

 

It's where it happens that makes it so effective IMO, at the turn finish.  Which leads to my choice for the best way to control speed...

 

Finish the Turn and make them round.

 

Don't be in a hurry to initiate the next turn, when you have the opportunity to regroup for a split second in the comfort of a smooth turn finish, life will get quite demanding soon enough.

 

BTW, this is so much easier to do when skiing over the tops of the moguls down the technical line where there is plenty of room to complete the turn (tails don't hang up on anything) on smooth/forgiving snow.

post #74 of 79

Where does a skier slow down in the bumps?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRHXcEKSlFk&feature=player_detailpage

 

The fence at the bottom of the course.

post #75 of 79
Yeah--fences work, especially if there's a big camera to help stop your momentum too!

Pretty funny! Not either of their best runs--needed a little backpedaling, I guess. (Sorry, CVJ--couldn't resist.)

Best regards,
Bob
post #76 of 79
Thread Starter 

100 bucks to anyone with video of them straight lining Silver Fox @ Snowbird with 3 turns. All in good fun.lol

post #77 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

100 bucks to anyone with video of them straight lining Silver Fox @ Snowbird with 3 turns. All in good fun.lol



You'd have to be nuts to straightline Silver Fox. At least you survived.

 

Sorry Joey. Found this the other day and it wa the perfect answer to your original thread question. LOL indeed.

 

In fairness, i'm putting up your 1983 Championship run. it's a good one on a tough run of moguls. Real moguls I might add. Not machine made evenly spaced, evenly sized bumps with ramps to the air bumps. back in the day when we were hotdoggers and bumps were bumps and the partys were world class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQG4R2gm_2E&feature=player_detailpage

 

You're still my hero.

 

 

post #78 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

You don't put the same shocks on a Caprice that you put on a Chevette.

 


Exactly! (Said the Chevette.) "Stiff" and "Soft" are subjective terms here, that are very much dependent on the size of the flexor. I loved Bob Barnes' point that if you are pushing into the boot tongue, it's pushing back on you, and the analogy where he asks what would happen in that circumstance if someone yanked up on the tips of your skis. In other words, its more up to you than up to the skis to do the absorbtion. Got it. But even with that in mind, in my experience it DOES make a big difference when you have skis that are soft enough longitudinally to forgive minor errors in absorbtion technique, and soft enough torsionally to allow the "soft feet" that I feel help me in bumps to translate effectively to "soft edges."

 

post #79 of 79

I ski bumps so slowly that the question of when to slow down doesn't even come up in my mind. No pun intended. smile.gif

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