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For tonight's swap - how to visually tell junior from adult bindings?

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 

So my kid's getting bigger, and this year he may have to step from a junior soled boot (21.5) to adult soled boot (22) midway through season.

 

Our local ski swap starts tonight; in the past, I've just grabbed whatever looked good with junior bindings.  But this year, since he might switch boots mid-season, I want to make sure I get clamps that will accept both junior- and adult-norm boot soles.

 

Without memorizing binding models, what is the best way to tell (in a ski-swap setting) a binding that will accept both sizes?

 

I did try and search but didn't find this - there were lots of threads were about what the norms were, but not this.

 

Thanks,

Bob

post #2 of 19
Thread Starter 

Sorry to bump my own post but I did find an old post by bud heishman that said:

 

Quote:
) junior and adult norm boot sole bindings
These bindings are generally DIN range of .75 - 4.5

 

Is that a reasonable way of telling?

 

post #3 of 19

I'm pretty sure my kids' bindings are that range and are kids only.  In fact, I think 0.75 - 4.5 is among the lowest available.

 

How about bringing some boots and trying to jam them into the toe pieces?  I'm not sure if this is supposed to work without intervention.  Look for an adjustment, perhaps.

post #4 of 19

A "junior" binding will typcially have a lower DIN range than an "adult" binding. If it only goes up to 7 DIN or so, it's a junior binding.  Adult bindings usually go up to ten or eleven (insert spinal tap joke here)

 

But you're really asking about something else, which is boot sole length, and that depends on how the binding is mounted.  Most modern skis come with integrated bindings i.e. they're pre-drilled & designed for a specific binding - this makes it easy to adjust to longer boot soles.  But there are still some "Flat" skis out there where the binding is mounted in the traditional way.  I think you'll be fine with any of the integrated binding systems.  If the ski is flat, you may have to pay $50 or so to get them remounted.

post #5 of 19

THere are 2 children's size bindings.  You need the right size for whichever boot your kid has.  The larger is the same as adult, but usually with lower DIN.  Some junior race bindings go as high as 7 or 8, and they are a bargain for adults.

 

BK

post #6 of 19

I think there are two pieces of info to work with.  The release setting you child will need in either boot - probably < 4 and the toe/heel height of the boot.  I thought I was told somewhere along the lines that most toe bindings auto set now.  Older ones needed to be set by a screw on the top of the binding.  I haven't seen any of those in a while but I haven't been looking either.  Last year I asked about this same thing in two different ski shops of long time ski retailers and both told me about the auto setting toes.

 

I don't doubt that there are lots of little kids bnidings that are the older style still out there because they seem to be passed down forever.  They might still make the some that way too.

 

The bindings that go to 7 probably are designed for both.

 

Maybe the easiest way to tell is if the toe binding is spring loaded. 

 

You could always try asking someone there, though I haven't had a lot of luck getting real answers at swaps.

post #7 of 19

Bud Heishman's post is closest to what you need.

 

I have to refer to the tech manual several times a year on this very subject.

 

It is not the release setting that is important, but yes, the ability to accept both child and adult boot lugs.

 

I don't start ski teching for another month, but I would go with .75-4 DIN range for a basic guide.

 

You would think that after 12 years of taking binding tests, that would be a no-brainer, but they phrase that specific question (all makes, every year) in a way that you recognize the correct answer.

 

So if you put up the multiple choices, I could probably help more.

 

Hang on a second, look at the heel pieces, that is the big difference, the ones you want look almost exactly like an adult heel.  The kids only heels

are dinky in comparison.

post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 

Thanks to all who replied; Supergaper, your info helped confirm what I thought I knew - the tip about the heels was a good one.  L&AirC (what's that handle mean?), you're right about the toe height.  My kid's getting big quickly (chip off the block; I'm 6'5" and 220), so I got binders that go to 7 and are on tracks.

post #9 of 19

L& = Land

Air = Air

C = Sea

 

Land, Air, Sea = 20 years in the Marines.

post #10 of 19

A junior binding is .75-4.5, what I call an interim binding which will usually be 2.5 -7, and adult which will usually start at 3 and go up to 10 or 12. The differences also being in a junior binding they usually take comfortably up to a 22.5 boot. The general difference usually starts at 23,different toe heights,etc.  A junior binding will take a 23+ boot but extra pressure is already exerted to keep the boot in. Hope this makes sense.   Dave

post #11 of 19

The DINs are not determinative, but they are often indicative.

 

Top DIN of 4 or 4.5 typically correlates to a binding that requires a junior DIN norm sole, which typically goes up to a 22.5 mondo point.

 

Some bindings with a top DIN of 7ish accept both.  The Tyrolias (which also includes Head and Fischer branded bindings, among others) in this DIN range adjust automatically.  The Looks (which also includes Rossignol, Dynastar, and Roxy branded bindings) in this DIN range have two different AFDs (anti-friction devices - typically a teflon plate under the toe), one of which is usually labeled "JUNIOR" and is noticeably thicker.  I believe that Marker and Salomon bindings in this range are adult normed, but I don't usually use them, so I could be wrong.

 

Bindings with a higher top DIN -- typically 9 or above -- are intended for adult boot sole norms.


Edited by TheDad - 10/22/11 at 11:34am
post #12 of 19



I believe this what have stated in the previous posting

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

Lots of misinformation, some correct, in this thread.  The DINs are not determinative, but they are often indicative.

 

Top DIN of 4 or 4.5 typically correlates to a binding that requires a junior DIN norm sole, which typically goes up to a 22.5 mondo point.

 

Some bindings with a top DIN of 7ish accept both.  The Tyrolias (which also includes Head and Fischer branded bindings, among others) in this DIN range adjust automatically.  The Looks (which also includes Rossignol, Dynastar, and Roxy branded bindings) in this DIN range have two different AFDs (anti-friction devices - typically a teflon plate under the toe), one of which is usually labeled "JUNIOR" and is noticeably thicker.  I believe that Marker and Salomon bindings in this range are adult normed, but I don't usually use them, so I could be wrong.

 

Bindings with a higher top DIN -- typically 9 or above -- are intended for adult boot sole norms.



 

post #13 of 19

Yes, with the addition of the brand-specific stuff.

 

Although I was a bit extreme.  A lot of the information was pretty good, just incomplete.  I tried to sum up the whole thing and add information about the two middle-ground options I know of.

post #14 of 19

So this opens up a can of worms for me.  My son was in 22.5's last season with Jr bindings.  This year will be 23.5's.  Will he need new bindings?  There is plenty of room to slide the heel back. Hadn't thought about different sole heights.

post #15 of 19



Yes, you are correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

Yes, with the addition of the brand-specific stuff.

 

Although I was a bit extreme.  A lot of the information was pretty good, just incomplete.  I tried to sum up the whole thing and add information about the two middle-ground options I know of.



 

post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post

So this opens up a can of worms for me.  My son was in 22.5's last season with Jr bindings.  This year will be 23.5's.  Will he need new bindings?  There is plenty of room to slide the heel back. Hadn't thought about different sole heights.



Not necessarily but possibly, I would suggest taking them in to a local shop and give them all the info needed,also brink the skier with you. Not seeing skier and equipment and knowing current  DIN, it is hard to say. I will say this though, if it were questionable at all the safe option would be to get an interim binding(2.5-7) put on the ski and then when he grows out of it, transfer the new binding on to a new ski.  Hope this helps.   Dave

 

post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post

So this opens up a can of worms for me.  My son was in 22.5's last season with Jr bindings.  This year will be 23.5's.  Will he need new bindings?  There is plenty of room to slide the heel back. Hadn't thought about different sole heights.


Possibly. Have a shop test the release.
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RatherPlayThanWork View Post

So this opens up a can of worms for me.  My son was in 22.5's last season with Jr bindings.  This year will be 23.5's.  Will he need new bindings?  There is plenty of room to slide the heel back. Hadn't thought about different sole heights.


Possibly. Have a shop test the release.


TheDad is correct.

So you know; it is more determined by the boot sole length (BSL) than size, though they usually go hand in hand.  Also the correct way is not just a matter of sliding the heel back but also may require moving the toe forward.  The intent is to line up the mark on the bottom of the boot with the mark on the ski/binding.  The mark on the boot usually has an "A" or "C" next to it indicating Adult or Child and is referencing the toe/heel lug height.
 

 

 

post #19 of 19

Calling ski dads with kids a bit older than mine who may have dealt w/ this . . . kids in the tweener child/adult toe/heel lug height.

 

This thread has been informative as I have a tweener size kid who is coming out of a 20.5, 249mm BSL last season and this year is appropriately shell checking into a 21.5, 259mm BSL.

 

My challenge is that some manufacturers 21.5 boots have 'A' Adult toe/heel lug height and some have 'C' childrens toe/heel lug height. The dilemma I am having is that we are planning on mounting two pairs of skis this season and I need to determine the boot so I can buy the appropriate bindings.

 

My goal is to get the 21.5 boot with an adult toe/heel lug height so next year when he is in a 22.5, the bindings will still work since he usually gets two seasons out of skis / 1 season out of boots. In my search, manufacturers do not stipulate clearly as to the A or C per size on their sites, nor do the online distributors and local shops don't have a large variety of boots in this size.

 

It would be cool if EVO (love these guys) or others had a table with boot models, sizes and which sizes for each model are 'C' and which are 'A'.

 

 

 

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