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Telemark

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 

NTN / traditional / At or whatever what do you do and why?

post #2 of 27

 

Trad.  It's cheap.

post #3 of 27

HH # 5.  1) I have them already, and 2) no need, for me, to improve on the feeling, they do what I want.

post #4 of 27

NTN, unless I'm on AT.  Whatever's best.  No 75mm though, 'cause NTN+AT is better.  .  

post #5 of 27
Newbie telemarker (started at age 70) have NTN setup. Traditional (first experience) was tough for a fat old guy to get into
post #6 of 27
Thread Starter 

what does it mean to drive the cuff with ntn?

 

post #7 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaski View Post

what does it mean to drive the cuff with ntn?


It refers to the rear foot.  Instead of focusing on lifting your heel and steering that way - which is pretty standard for traditional tele bindings - you focus on driving your lower leg into the cuff of the boot to steer.  This brings a lot more power/weight to the rear leg in a turn and allows you to carve the rear ski.  This also tends to keep your stance tight so that the back leg isn't trailing relatively far behind.  NTN generally doesn't ski well for people that try to trail their leg way behind.  

 

http://www.newtelemarkguide.com/wiki/NTN_Frequently_Asked_Questions#Common_Questions

- Scroll down to "How do I avoid 'tippy toe?'"

 

http://www.newtelemarkguide.com/wiki/New_Telemark_Norm_(NTN)

post #8 of 27
Thread Starter 

As far as boot fit goes with NTN compared to alpine is the thought process right of going a little looser with tele?  I tried a pair of boots on and they felt perfect.  I'm an alpine guy just starting with tele and making my first tele purchase.  I'm wondering if the perfect fit meaning snug but not cramped is too small for a tele purchase.  What are thoughts as far as tele boot fit goes.

 

thnx 

post #9 of 27

75mm plus 7tm Power or Garmont CRB.

 

Cheap (compared to NTN and/or injury), reliable, releaseable.  7tm is DIN standard. Garmont is adjustable but not DIN standard. 

 

NTN release = catastrophic release only.  Mebbe if you're in an avalanche.  Otherwise, in situations where you'd want a release for injury avoidance, not so much.  Or so I understand from recurring discussion on telemarktips.com.

 

Why releasables?  Start with this thread: http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=64008&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight= .  Or just ponder the title ""It's all fun and games 'til someone breaks a leg", and skip the 15 pages.

 

I've skied several tele bindings, and whatever the different feel between various bindings (from purely passive 3-pin up through more active cable / hardwire / spike telebulldog), after a few runs I can adapt and enjoy the skiing.  Granted I've never skied HH position 5 - or NTN - but I'm not going to bother b/c I'm not going to clamp my toes in those vices on a regular basis.

 

Again YMMV, I prefer the same fit in both alpine in tele.  As you say, snug but not tight.  If I want more room, say for a touring day, I'll use the thinnest possible socks.

post #10 of 27


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ts01 View Post
 ...I prefer the same fit in both alpine in tele.  As you say, snug but not tight. ...


+1.  Imagine your heels, either pretty snug in the boot or looser, and then going through the mechanics of a tele turn repeatedly.  Snug = more heel (and toenail) happiness.

post #11 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ts01 View Post

 NTN release = catastrophic release only.  Mebbe if you're in an avalanche.  Otherwise, in situations where you'd want a release for injury avoidance, not so much.  Or so I understand from recurring discussion on telemarktips.com.

 

nonono2.gif  Not true.  The only people on Ttips that say that (and believe me, I know Ttips too well) are the ones that haven't tried NTN (like you) and a full-of-it mission poster (initials NB).  I've been skiing NTN since they came out and they have released perfectly when I have needed them to - ie. big beaters.  To repeat: NTN release works well.  

 

Edit: Waitaminnit, I know you from Ttips.  redface.gif  (televisionary)

 

Quote:
Again YMMV, I prefer the same fit in both alpine in tele.  As you say, snug but not tight. 
 
Agreed/+2.  Fit tele boots like you like your alpines to fit.  BTW, if they are comfortable trying them on before you get them molded, they are too big.  

 


Edited by Bob Lee - 10/17/11 at 8:43am
post #12 of 27
Thread Starter 

Thank you once again all for the great info.  Another question is power tube selection as an aggressive alpine skier just getting into tele but hope to bring my tele ability up from the start.  Is my thought process of blue power tubes the way to go or should I be looking at green?  Thanks again.

post #13 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaski View Post

Thank you once again all for the great info.  Another question is power tube selection as an aggressive alpine skier just getting into tele but hope to bring my tele ability up from the start.  Is my thought process of blue power tubes the way to go or should I be looking at green?  Thanks again.


It depends on your weight and how you ski, but the rule of thumb is to use stiffer cartridges at a lower setting rather than softer ones at a higher setting.  If you weigh much over 160 I'd suggest looking at red cartridges.  

 

You should really read that wiki I posted upthread:

http://www.newtelemarkguide.com/wiki/NTN_Tips_and_Tricks#Power_Tubes

post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 

 

nonono2.gif  Not true.  The only people on Ttips that say that (and believe me, I know Ttips too well) are the ones that haven't tried NTN (like you) and a full-of-it mission poster (initials NB).  I've been skiing NTN since they came out and they have released perfectly when I have needed them to - ie. big beaters.  To repeat: NTN release works well.  

 

Edit: Waitaminnit, I know you from Ttips.  redface.gif  (televisionary)

 

 


Well I wasn't laying claim to first-hand knowledge w/NTN - just repeating the rumors and innuendo - and happy that someone who knows has cleared it up.  I guess my fundamental answers to OP's question "what do you do and why" - is (a) I started tele just before NTN came out so I'm fully invested in 75mm norm; and (b) releasability is a critical feature. 

 

NTN questions -- Are release values in NTN adjustable?   What about slow twisting type falls as opposed to the big beater crashes?  For example, on a steep eastern wooded slope, my Voile CRBs released when the tail of my inside ski got caught in some brush and I dropped into the next turn; I wasn't going especially fast, so not a "beater" crash, but it was a bum knee to begin with and I was glad not to torque it up. What would NTN do in that situation? 

 

And no I'm not televisionary - but also, not NB! (Same username on ttips: ts01.)

 

 

post #15 of 27

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ts01 View Post

 

NTN questions -- Are release values in NTN adjustable?  

 

Yes, via the power tubes.

 

Quote:

 What about slow twisting type falls as opposed to the big beater crashes? 

 

I've come out in a slow twister or two, but honestly, isn't that the iffy type for any binding depending on how it's set?  

 

Quote:

And no I'm not televisionary

 

roflmao.gif  I know, Ted S...because I am.  Sorry for being unclear.  I sold you a pack on Ttips.  

post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post
 

 

 

roflmao.gif  I know, Ted S...because I am.  Sorry for being unclear.  I sold you a pack on Ttips.  


 

Whoops - DUH.  Nice pack.  I used it a couple of ski days last spring and my wife used it for backpacking over the summer.  Thanks again. 

post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 

I've come out in a slow twister or two, but honestly, isn't that the iffy type for any binding depending on how it's set?  

 

Sure - and I've got one less ACL as a result! (Thanks to an alpine binding, to be clear.)

post #18 of 27
Thread Starter 

195 lbs type III skier 36 y/o size 28 boot 

 

if I read it right the setting would be if blue tube - 3 if red tube 2....  I guess just personal preference between these two colored tubes then?

post #19 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaski View Post

195 lbs type III skier 36 y/o size 28 boot 

 

if I read it right the setting would be if blue tube - 3 if red tube 2....  I guess just personal preference between these two colored tubes then?


nonono2.gif  You're not reading what I wrote or the wiki I linked.  Come on back after you have.  

 

post #20 of 27
Thread Starter 

I did read your post and the rotefella chart through your link does not work.  I was going by this chart that I found after seeing your post.  That's how I read this chart.  Now if what your implying is that you should always go higher with lower setting than wouldn't almost everyone be reds or blues?  That's why I gave my size.  So if you care to elaborate for me than great. Please do.  

post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

 

 

nonono2.gif  Not true.  The only people on Ttips that say that (and believe me, I know Ttips too well) are the ones that haven't tried NTN (like you) and a full-of-it mission poster (initials NB).  I've been skiing NTN since they came out and they have released perfectly when I have needed them to - ie. big beaters.  To repeat: NTN release works well.  

 

Edit: Waitaminnit, I know you from Ttips.  redface.gif  (televisionary)

 

 

 
 

You are wrong Bob Lee! ;) I sprained my ankle big time last year on NTN. Rolled about 30 m before i came to a stop in a steep hill and they didn't release. They have in fact never released on me. This ended my telemark season way too early, in february. 

 

And to answer your question wannaski: I like NTN because it's stiffer and more stable, and I feel like I can charge more. Also I'm better at NTN than 75mm.  

post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by annette View Post

 
 I sprained my ankle big time last year on NTN. Rolled about 30 m before i came to a stop in a steep hill



annette, could you please describe this more, in a separate thread?   thank you.

 

post #23 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

annette, could you please describe this more, in a separate thread?   thank you.

 

+1.  Besides the circumstances I'd like to know your ability, weight and the color of cartridges and the settings.
 

But yeah, I should have written that correctly selected and set cartridges on NTN will release correctly*.  Alpine bindings can cause sprained ankles when set incorrectly.  

 

TIA.  

 

* What I was commenting on in that post was ts01's contention:

Quote:
 NTN release = catastrophic release only.  Mebbe if you're in an avalanche.  Otherwise, in situations where you'd want a release for injury avoidance, not so much.  

 

post #24 of 27

Hi!

 

I wrote about my accident at the TT-forum as more telemarkers hang out there compared to here. Also, my cartridges are set correctly. They are even set lower than what is recommended for my weight and shoe size, so they should release more easily. 

post #25 of 27

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by annette View Post

Hi!

 

I wrote about my accident at the TT-forum as more telemarkers hang out there compared to here. Also, my cartridges are set correctly. They are even set lower than what is recommended for my weight and shoe size, so they should release more easily. 


I just saw it there.  Some good comments in response.  

 

I still stand by my statement below that:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

...I've been skiing NTN since they came out and they have released perfectly when I have needed them to - ie. big beaters.  To repeat: NTN release works well.  

 

Sorry about your accident, my experience has been otherwise in well over 200 days on NTN.  

 

post #26 of 27

Hi all.  My first post.

 

Just a comment about 7TM release harking back to an earlier point, and about releasability in general:

 

I'm one ACL short too, cos 7TMs don't release forwards (except catastrophically).

 

Have mostly moved onto Telebray Safeouts, which do release forwards but on the lowest setting which is still pretty high at 10 lbs/ft torque there's lateral slop.

 

In general I gather that it's not possible to set up a release binding that will release whenever you need it to while still hold the ski in most of the conditions we want to ski in.  Lotsa downhillers have trashed knees despite the adjustability and relative tech sophistication of alpine bindings.

post #27 of 27

Tele last season, now AT.

 

Finding your own personal stash of snow and farming laps with only your friends around is true ski freedom.

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