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It's Official: SQUAW VALLEY BUYS ALPINE MEADOWS - Page 2

post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ske-Bum View Post

No offense, but really you would ride Roundhouse on a storm day rather then KT. You are saying, you would traverse out to all that from Roundhouse for 500 vert rather then go to KT?  

 I'm not buying it for a minute.


When Roundhouse is ski-on, and KT has a 45-minute line?  Total no-brainer.  I'd rather take my vert as ten 500-foot chunks in an hour than one 1800-foot chunk.  Not to mention, no need to play meat slalom on my way to tracked-out former goodness.

 

Now, if KT has a 5- or 10-minute line, that's another story. 

post #32 of 54

Just out of curiosity, how do the new season pass prices compare to before 9/27?  I wasn't following this, but did existing pass holders suddenly get a great deal?

 

This is going to make the gathering a bit easier...one pass, 3 areas.

post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post

Just out of curiosity, how do the new season pass prices compare to before 9/27?  I wasn't following this, but did existing pass holders suddenly get a great deal?

 

The full joint pass is now $799 through November 30.  That extended date for a discount is actually pretty big news.

 

It looks like Squaw's full pass price was $699 through June 15, and $739 on July 4th weekend and through at least Labor Day.  Traditionally, pricing at Squaw went up to full price on September 15, but I'm not sure whether that was true this year.

 

I think that Alpine's full pass price was $699 through October 15, but can't find any record of that.

post #34 of 54

I get a kick out of dav thinkin' alpine has more attitude then squaw, brah.

 

my hunch, nothin' much'll change 'til white wolf is part of the deal.  and then, well, it'll ski a little more like jackson.  better.

 

edit to add: it might change a smidge, the new squaw owners will probably de-soul a bit of alpine

post #35 of 54
[quote name="TheDad" url="/t/105408/it-s-official-squaw-valley-buys-alpine-meadows/30#post_1366659"

I think that Alpine's full pass price was $699 through October 15, but can't find any record of that.

[/quote]

I think it was $799. $699 was until May 15th.


BTW: I think Estelle and the side country will get hit harder the day after the powder day. Particularly if that day is midweek.
post #36 of 54
Thread Starter 
Troy Caldwell Talks Squaw-Alpine Merger

http://www.moonshineink.com/articles.php/6/2509

Sounds like my speculation of them potentially not doing much with Alpine's base area and focusing on Whitewolf's base area instead isn't far off. At least in theory.

"The development potential of the property, not only the lift linkage between Squaw Valley and Alpine Meadows, might be one of the most surprising aspects of the future of White Wolf. Caldwell says two flat locations on the property could hold base villages that rival the size of Squaw’s village. Caldwell has done preliminary planning work that lays out a base village on the property."
post #37 of 54

That's Troy focusing on his base area.  Which is what he's been planning for a while.  During the ISSW field day hikes last year, he was quite open about his plan to develop the eastern (towards 89) and southern (towards Alpine Meadows Road) parcels of his property regardless, and maintain the northern and western portions for skiing -- whether as a link between the two resorts, or as a standalone, owners-only club, a la Yellowstone.

 

I'm not sure that you can ascribe Troy's intent to Squalpine.

post #38 of 54

Yeah, never mind that White Wolf is directly South facing and gets hammered by the sun. Last year it was skiable a lot of the year, but that isn't always the case. 

post #39 of 54

+1 on the limits of the Caldwell slope for skiing. what would he open for skiing facing north? In any case, the true value would be as a connector and a south facing slope can't be relied upon for the new super lift connecting Squaw and Alpine. Is there a way to use the Estelle area if the Caldwell property became part of the complex?  If you could ski Estelle (new lift to top)  and then take a lift up to Sun Bowl area?  total two lifts for the connect. sorry Troy, your poles don't fit the plan biggrin.gif

post #40 of 54

I don't think Troy, of all people, is under any illusions about the amount of skiing that can be done at White Wolf.  He's probably skied that terrain more than everyone else combined, and it's not like he's an unsophisticated audience, lulled by its charms.  I've never skied it myself, but I understand from those who have that when it's good, it's great.

post #41 of 54

actually it's a popular poach from ....somewhere, and I'm pretty sure the total of poachers exceeds experience of poachee, but a good research project. Troy recently shook down some people he snagged, watches for people and threatens them when he catches them, so goes the story, which is not without humor value....it's local folklore....all proceeds to SR. soon all to be a thing of the past.

post #42 of 54

He probably needs to these days, because as I understand it, his permit requires him to certify competence of the people who ski there (including avy I cert), and he doesn't want to screw it up.

 

But although "more than everyone else combined" was a bit of hyperbole on my part, he has almost certainly skied it more than anyone else.

post #43 of 54

he also mentioned that he sells time to film makers doing films, ads, etc. and that his hill isn't worth a cent to a film crew if it has tracks all over it.

 

I'm cool with hyperbole, it's poetic license, and this place could do with some poetry now and thenbiggrin.gif.

post #44 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ske-Bum View Post

. One of the reasons I moved to Squaw years ago was Alpine's lame policy toward keeping their lifts turning



yea maybe somehow out of all this will come a focus by management on powder junkies rather than the grotesque expansion of the squallyworld base area. I have gotten shut out of alpine on powder days one too many times these last few seasons so i am kind of done with it unless it changes. I never thought i would come to appreciate red dog so much but squaw,sugarbowl,nstar and homewood are the powder day options and that is too bad because alpine has wonderful terrain for stormy weather

 

post #45 of 54
back in the day, early 80s, Alpine ran Summit in severe weather. skiing off Peril was awesome in storms. Scott also.

with the first change in ownership they got wimpy about it (and make no mistake, they were closed on a lot of epic days, with really lame excuses, including: "we weren't ready"). so it isn't a limitation of the lifts. or the mountain. Summit can roll in almost any weather.

it has been said that they don't build the lifts to the top because they would be more susceptible to wind. the way things are now, an area that puts an emphasis on sidecountry hiking could work. here's an issue: the area between Alpine and Twin Peaks is forest service I guess, and would be an awesome hike to ski, but for snowmobiles trashing it all the time high pointing.
post #46 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDad View Post

That's Troy focusing on his base area.


Well, yeah, but he's not getting that done (raising the capital, etc.) without KSL's help. So if anything ever gets built there, you'd better believe it'll be affiliated with Squaw / Alpine. So my point stands: KSL is far more likely to develop White Wolf than make dramatic changes to the Alpine property, in particular because of that road.

I only went to Alpine a couple of days last season so obviously my POV is limited compared to a pass holder, but in their defense I will say on multiple occasions they had Summit and Scott spinning in some pretty gusty winds and kept them going as long as possible. One day I was on one of the very last chairs up Summit before they shut it down and it was an exciting (scary) ride. I was happy to get off that thing and totally understood why they put it on hold.
post #47 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Well, yeah, but he's not getting that done (raising the capital, etc.) without KSL's help. So if anything ever gets built there, you'd better believe it'll be affiliated with Squaw / Alpine. So my point stands: KSL is far more likely to develop White Wolf than make dramatic changes to the Alpine property, in particular because of that road.

 

I disagree completely.

 

Building a base at Alpine would be far simpler than one at White Wolf.  The Subway lot could be exploited easily, as could the meadow on Chalet Road, above the Alpine Chalet.  As for White Wolf, it's zoned residential, and there's no way Troy is going to get permits to let him expand into commercial and high density there.  

 

Not that anyone is going to build a village in either location; it really makes no sense now that the areas are combined.  The destination vacation market would rather have 1000 beds and 40 restaurants in one location than 500 beds and 20 restaurants in two.  Squaw's village will expand; Alpine's will not happen, at least until Squaw's is completely built out.

 

Don't confuse negotiation posturing -- on both sides -- for actual planning.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

I only went to Alpine a couple of days last season so obviously my POV is limited compared to a pass holder, but in their defense I will say on multiple occasions they had Summit and Scott spinning in some pretty gusty winds and kept them going as long as possible. One day I was on one of the very last chairs up Summit before they shut it down and it was an exciting (scary) ride. I was happy to get off that thing and totally understood why they put it on hold.

 

For what it's worth, my experience squares with yours.

post #48 of 54
Thread Starter 
Fine, whatever - my point was don't expect a huge real estate development around Alpine Meadows just because of this merger/acquistion... not with that road.
post #49 of 54

I think it's hard for the Alpine management to forget about this.

post #50 of 54
Thread Starter 
I think it would be hard for insurance companies to forget about it too.
post #51 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

Fine, whatever - my point was don't expect a huge real estate development around Alpine Meadows just because of this merger/acquistion... not with that road.


On that, we agree 100%.

 

And as for the avy danger, that's one of the reasons why development in the Subway lot or above the Chalet would make much more sense than White Wolf.

post #52 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

back in the day, early 80s, Alpine ran Summit in severe weather. skiing off Peril was awesome in storms. Scott also.
with the first change in ownership they got wimpy about it (and make no mistake, they were closed on a lot of epic days, with really lame excuses, including: "we weren't ready"). so it isn't a limitation of the lifts. or the mountain. Summit can roll in almost any weather.
it has been said that they don't build the lifts to the top because they would be more susceptible to wind. the way things are now, an area that puts an emphasis on sidecountry hiking could work. here's an issue: the area between Alpine and Twin Peaks is forest service I guess, and would be an awesome hike to ski, but for snowmobiles trashing it all the time high pointing.


Amen, the down hill decline started with the first change in ownership and then went into high gear when that little troll, Matt Jenny was busy running the place into the ground. I have seen the new summit chair, (not the old fixed one) run in brutal winds, that is no longer the case. 

 

As Dad and several others have said, I hope management will see fit to TRY and open when it is storming.  But given Squaws record for opening terrain, I'm afraid the faces giving the lame excuses will change, not the excuses. 

 

Time will tell, time to pray for snow. 

post #53 of 54

TheDad,

 

Either way, there has to be real estate development somewhere in the picture even if it means widening the roads. This will be the real story at some point.  Additional lift ticket sales can't support linking White Wolf.  Assuming the economy turns in 5 years (the deleveraging is far from over) the timing could be good.

 

Ske-Bum,

 

Snow is on the way for most of next week!

post #54 of 54

Yeah, but it doesn't have to be a village on the Alpine side.  Troy wants to put luxury homes on his site; I think he was talking about acre plots.  Much more likely to get through.

 

My money says that, over the long term, the Squaw side will target destination vacationers and expand similarly to the way it is going, and the Alpine side will target locals and possibly luxury vacationers looking for a more exclusive and pampered experience.

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