Mountain Hardwear: New OutDry Glove technology

 

Waterproof leather?  That's not new tech.  Hestra balm, and call it a day, that's been around for quite some time.

 

Seems like a bit heavy on the hype and marketing-speak to me.  They're just calling out Gore-Tex without saying "Gore-Tex".

As I need a new pair of gloves this year, plus I respect Mountain Hardware, this thread is timely.

 

Check out the below link that does a much better job of explaining the MH DryQ fabric. My read is they are putting the Gore type material on the outside of the glove, shell, pants, etc. so that water does not enter because it's repealed at the surface, like vinyl. Clearly, they claim greatly increased permeability to vent warm, wet air from inside to out. They are eliminating pit-vents in jackets as a result. Sounds impressive.

 

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/DryQ/DryQ,default,pg.html

 

Worth checking out as it's new for this year.

 

Marketing hype or breakthrough?   

Arc teryx put a gore-tex glove out which featured gore-tex on the outside ffabric and not just depending on a liner.  The problem has always been the cost and difficulty in keeping the seams waterproof.  There are gloves with Gore-tex liners, Hestra, OR and others but a Gor-tex exterior is a very different glove.

 

http://www.thegearcaster.com/the_gearcaster/2010/02/arcteryx-alpha-sv-glove-with-tridex-technology.html 

 

 

ALL that said, this is more of  a new fabric technology that is used on all outer wear.  I wonder how close this fabric is to a E-Vent which is much better than Gore-tex at breatheability.  I will check out the gloves but its hard to beat Hestra lobster claws....

 

 

a few Outrdry gloves:

Medusa

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Men%27s-Medusa-Glove/OM4382,default,pd.html   

 

Hydra

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Men%27s-Hydra%E2%84%A2-EXT-Glove/OM4393,default,pd.html 

 

typhoon

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Men%27s-Typhon-Glove/OM4395,default,pd.html 

 

Edited by Finndog - 9/27/11 at 7:26am

Eliminating pit zips is a bad move. Sometimes you just want that full on vented feeling.

 

Ditto.  If you take away my pit zips, my shells may just rot through at the pits...

 

 

the removal of pit vents has been tried by all manufacturers but they never seem to understand that the consumer just likes them..... 

 

 

I am still interested in the gloves. I wish my lobsters were a bit more water proof but I am not willing to give up the dexterity and incredible warmth.

From http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070104576398091202902546.html from June 22, 2011
"OutDry was invented in the late 1990s by two Italian brothers. They discovered a way to bond the waterproof, breathable membrane directly to the outer layer of the boot or glove. Gore-Tex, by contrast, works as a waterproof insert inside the boot or glove. OutDry claims that water can accumulate in the space between the insert and the boot or glove, making it heavier and less porous."
"One brand that did adopt OutDry was Mountain Hardwear, a Columbia unit"
"Columbia last year bought OutDry"

DryQ is the same as eVent, They are different names for a laminate from GE Energy.

I'm sorry that I can't answer your question directly, Finndog. It looks like Outdry is neither GoreTex or eVent.

The MH gloves look like a much better value than the Arcteryx external GoreTex gloves.

Thanks retro.  Do you work or rep for them? Here's question, I think I got the dryQ and the Outdry materials confused.  I thought the OutDry did the same or was part of the dryQ?  I don't see any glvoes that list the Qdry materials?  There is a link for all Outdry gloves but nothing for dryQ... 

 

Seems pretty simple: GE develops the membranes...MHW or whoever else contracts a fabric producer to take the membrane and make a  final garment fabric according to their particular spec.    

 

It seems entirely possible they could be contracting with GE and Nextec both for the same final fabric, one for the membrane the other for the lamination process.

 

It's really only confusing if we use marketing blurbs about purported benefits to distinguish which is which.

From the google, http://blog.tahoemountainsports.com/2011/09/01/mountain-hardwear-dry-q/

You could say MH developed the fabric by specifying what properties they wanted out of the ePTFE membrane. MH did have to develop the actual underlying fabric to put the membrane on.

See also: http://www.eventfabrics.com/pdfs/GE_Refocuses_Event_Fabrics_072109.pdf

Nope, I'm a computer programmer who works completely outside the outdoors industry. I just like finding stuff on google.

I haven't figured out what the membrane material for OutDry is. From what I can gather, OutDry is more of a process to put the membrane on the gloves after they're made.

Most of the Nextec patents express a preference for a non-porous osmotic transfer type stretchable polyurethane membrane, i.e. not eVent.

Funny that the term "I'm confused" is used so often.

 

Just thinking out loud, but, a purchase from a company, like REI, with a 100% customer satisfaction guarantee may be in the future. REI carries 2 OutDry gloves, one @ $110, the other @ $140. Pricey, but, cold, wet hands are no fun.

 

The phrase "bleeding edge of technology" comes to mind. We will all know more by seasons end.

 

 

OutDry gloves have actually been out for a couple seasons now.  I skied in a pair last season that I used on less cold days.  This season I picked up a replacement liner so that I can use them when it's much colder.  They wore really well - you would barely even be able to tell they were used at all last season.  I didn't ski in any rain, but they certainly had no trouble handling the Spring/Summer slush conditions.  I never noticed my hands being too warm - if anything I just wanted a bit more insulation.

I just bought outdry in the Jalapeno model. they are a little tight (sz small). do you think they will stretch like 1/3 size? I was thinking of wearing them around the house for about 8 hours and seeing if they work into fitting. otherwise, I'll send back and get a medium, at full price of course.

 

There is a mountaineer, skier who swears by MH, (and is sponsored by them I believe), forgot his name (Alistair??), but a knowledgeable man who practically lives in his gear. His testimonial is in a backcountry review somewhere.

Edited by davluri - 9/27/11 at 6:10pm

Need to get a Columbia employee store pass ASAP, and pick up a pair for testing in the PNW. I have not been happy with a glove since I started skiing. Oddly enough I never had glove issues while snowboarding, and touching the snow all the time.

Speaking of new technology and gloves, I think Mamut is doing a glove with Polartec Neoshell.

OutDry glove review, worth a read:

 

http://www.wildsnow.com/2157/mountain-hardware-medusa-gloves-with-outdry-waterproofing/

always safe buying from them for sure but I would rather get some facts before going out and having wet cold hands for a day and then returning the gloves.....

 

like most manufacturers, their sites are not always thought through. Most only give cursury info and tell you to contact stores for info; which we all know means you won't get the correct answer :)  In this case, the site does not define if DryQ is part of the featrures of the OutDry material (or a system) or a separate material not contained or used with OutDry. So in the case of the REI gloves, (and I didn't look) is the glove just a "OutDry" glove or is a OutDry glove with DryQ?
 

 

as I may have to return them, I'm not going to run them under the faucet. the insulation seems to be medium thickness, warmth, prob good to around 24*

warmth in a glove is relative!  I currently use the hestra lobster shell with a wool insert and keeps me warm down to 10 or so. a dryer glove will provide better "warmth".....

did the palms stay dry?  That's always the problem area

 

 

Noodler,

MH's Website claims this is new technology for fall 2011. Were you using MH gloves, and, if so, do you know model name? It does appear that as the price of a MH glove increases, the liner material and the glove insert improve.
 

 

 

Ron,

You, Epic's champion of equipment technology, are still commited to 5 year old glove design? I'm shocked! Here's the question, if you need gloves this year, why buy the usual suspects knowing that wet liners will continue to plague? The return policies of REI and Mountain Hardware absorb the risk, and, running water over them before using would satify my initial concerns. MH does not appear to offer a lobster design, but, if I were in a location subject to very low temp's, I'd think very hard about MH mitten with OutDry.

 

For clarity, REI carries 2, at least, MH OutDry gloves, the Typhoon ($140) and Jalapaeno ($ 110), and, I was not referring to a generic REI housebrand glove. Periodiclly, REI offers 20% coupons for members and if a specific exemption does not apply for MH, it would be a great buy. Plus as they have a local storefront, one gets to try them on.

 

MH's website does not do a great job of distinguishing between the fabric (DryQ) and the branded OutDry process. They have at least a dozen gloves suitable for skiing all using DryQ and branded as OutDry. I'm thiking it's worth a roll of the dice!

 

 

 

Mike, yeah the outdry came out last season, MH has already modified a couple of models to increase dexterity (the Bazuka for instance) and improve some of the fit.  The reason why I still have my Hestra's is because they work. They have an amazing temperature range due to the breathability of the glove, its super soft and provide more than enough dexterity to use zippers adjust straps, etc.

 

the only thing I don't like is that over time, I have a bunch of slits and cuts on the palms from ski edges; water gets in easily (yes, I use Nikwax) and the palms get very wet. There is no inner liner really and the liner gets wet. I cary and extra pair and swap out at lunch but it would be nice to have a glove that does what the OutDry material claims on wet/snowy days. 

 

running water over them is not a good test; this is akin to running water over a jacket with new coat of DWR, it will bead water initially, but after a little use and rubbing, the it will not be effective. I beleive the claim, I am a bit doubtful the palms of the gloves  will remain H20 Proof and that's where all other gloves fail.

This is also perfectly consistent with the membrane being designed for osmotic transfer. The upside of having a membrane of this type is that it doesn't allow droplet-state water into the glove while the glove is highly flexed or stretched. In other words this type of membrane would perform better during the faucet test, which as you say is not really a good test for gloves. (I think it is a decent test for footgear, and I fully intend to own Outdry-type shoes).

I mentioned the Polartec Neoshell above because Neoshell is specifically designed for porous convective transfer, which seems to be the function mode you are looking for?
Edited by cantunamunch - 9/29/11 at 9:09am

I will see about finding the Mammut gloves you referenced.  THanks

 

Ok- research done, it's Marmot- although they making other apparel with the neo shell, I couldn't find any gloves made with this material. 

 

 

Edited by Finndog - 9/29/11 at 9:36am