so many links to various preseason ski fitness programs out there: what is the 'best' in your op? - Page 2

Anyone tried suspension training?

http://www.trxtraining.com/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Jones 

 

I don't think that info is accurate.  I know that they were trying a different way of risk management.  But I am not 100% certain...

 

They didn't self-insure "just because," it was because they had to.  It doesn't make it a "bad" program, but it does reflect the high injury rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTKook 

They didn't self-insure "just because," it was because they had to.  It doesn't make it a "bad" program, but it does reflect the high injury rate.

There is a lot of criticism of Crossfit due to injuries.  I question the accuracy.  My box is insured.  None of the boxes that I know of use the risk management program.  Keep in mind, many fitness centers are municipal or not-for-profit.  There are schools and colleges as well.  There are franchises that are nationwide.  They can represent a different scenario from a small box.  Some Crossfits are little more than someones garage with equipment.  It's not that easy to insure a box like that.

I think that they self-insured due to cost and the fact that it was difficult to get insurance and in some cases unavailable.  I wonder how sure the folks are of the high injury rate.  And high in comparison to what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Jones 
...

 

I think that they self-insured due to cost and the fact that it was difficult to get insurance and in some cases unavailable.  I wonder how sure the folks are of the high injury rate.  And high in comparison to what?

Dude, do you honestly think insurance companies dropped it "just because?"  If it were an insurable risk, they'd insure it. 

High in comparison to the gym programs they will insure -- which is a pretty broad spectrum. 

As soon as you mention rope climbing and gymnastics the rates sky rocket.

Most insurance co. want nothing to do with that sort of thing.

As far as injuries ,no more than any other gym..I would say much less at an affiliate.

Yes someone trying to do it on there own with poor technique sure. Done right and there is no issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillA 

Anyone tried suspension training?

 

http://www.trxtraining.com/

The TRX is an awesome tool. I use it myself and with most of my clients. But I don't think it's great as the only tool in your workout. You could do very well with a TRX, a pair of power blocks and a chinup bar though as your sole equipment.

You can work just about everything with it, but because it's just bodyweight, it's hard to really push yourself with leg work. Although with holds and high reps you can definitely get a good sweat. And for compound upper body and core stuff, it's phenomenal.  

In fact here are a couple of metabolic circuits I put together. One is just TRX and the other is about half TRX, half bodyweight/small equipment.

Elsbeth

PS - The TRX makes my top 10 favourite training tools list: http://elsbethvaino.com/2011/02/my-favourite-training-tools-5-trx/

Quote:

Originally Posted by loboskis 

As soon as you mention rope climbing and gymnastics the rates sky rocket.

Most insurance co. want nothing to do with that sort of thing.

As far as injuries ,no more than any other gym..I would say much less at an affiliate.

Yes someone trying to do it on there own with poor technique sure. Done right and there is no issues.

Well, as soon as you mention kidney failure due to breakdown of muscle tissue, rates don't tend to skyrocket, they just drop coverage.  The sky-high shoulder injury rate tends to of itself kinda discourage coverage. 

Done "right" and, if you look at the workouts, there will still be a very high injury rate.  Which is why the injury rate remains so high.  Watch a social group of soccer players, say, decide to try CrossFit as a group, and you can feel confident a fair number will end up in PT in a year's time.  Now, soccer also has a reasonably high injury rate, and I like soccer.  Having a high injury rate doesn't necessarily mean the activity doesn't make sense. 

Claiming that there are "no issues" as regards injuries if you do things "right" should give people the heebie-jeebies, though.  You're basically giving the finger to all the CrossFitters out there who got hurt doing CrossFit.  So they just screwed up?  How generous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTKook 

Well, as soon as you mention kidney failure due to breakdown of muscle tissue, rates don't tend to skyrocket, they just drop coverage.  The sky-high shoulder injury rate tends to of itself kinda discourage coverage. 

 

Done "right" and, if you look at the workouts, there will still be a very high injury rate.  Which is why the injury rate remains so high.  Watch a social group of soccer players, say, decide to try CrossFit as a group, and you can feel confident a fair number will end up in PT in a year's time.  Now, soccer also has a reasonably high injury rate, and I like soccer.  Having a high injury rate doesn't necessarily mean the activity doesn't make sense. 

 

Claiming that there are "no issues" as regards injuries if you do things "right" should give people the heebie-jeebies, though.  You're basically giving the finger to all the CrossFitters out there who got hurt doing CrossFit.  So they just screwed up?  How generous.

once again our local "expert "takes it to an new low

you are misinformed

and now that you've mentioned the finger........

Quote:

Originally Posted by loboskis 

once again our local "expert "takes it to an new low

you are misinformed

and now that you've mentioned the finger........

http://crossfitsimi.com/Documents/Rhabdo.pdf

CrossFit's own site warns of the risk of kidney failure, but I am misinformed?  Maybe you should take it up with these CrossFit folks...you seem to know better than them, as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTKook 

http://crossfitsimi.com/Documents/Rhabdo.pdf

 

CrossFit's own site warns of the risk of kidney failure, but I am misinformed?  Maybe you should take it up with these CrossFit folks...you seem to know better than them, as well.

if done improperly as was stated earlier

Quote:

Originally Posted by canali 

since the legs don't get the weight you need, as i highlighted in your post below,

how could you add weight and still use the trx system...wear some sort of a pack?

 

that trx system, which i'm aware of but have never used, does look interesting....

 

 

This is why I don't like it as the sole tool, but rather one of the tools you use for your workout.

But yes - you could add a pack. You can hold dumbbells - or a single dumbbell to get an additional lateral/rotary core benefit.

For the rear foot elevated split squats, you can do them as a jump (but please don't until you can do them well without the jump!). 

Also note, that it's particularly hard to get "hip dominant stuff with the TRX. You can do hip lifts and leg curls, but that's about it. And those are tougher to load.

Quote:

Originally Posted by loboskis 

if done improperly as was stated earlier

 

But that's not what CrossFit's own warning says, nor was what you said, really, when you earlier said "As far as injuries ,no more than any other gym..I would say much less at an affiliate.

Yes someone trying to do it on there own with poor technique sure. Done right and there is no issues." 

The problem, in CrossFit's own words, regarding potential kidney failure is not poor technique, nor someone working out unsupervised, but instead "it seems abundantly clear that these folks were exposed to too much work in too short a time."  Those affected include Special Ops personnel and college athletes and surfers, and most were in supervised CrossFit workouts.  The nature of CrossFit itself nearly killed them.

Now, to CrossFit's credit, but not to your own, CrossFit itself does highlight the danger.  That's cool, and just like MX programs encourage people to wear neck braces now that effective ones are available, CrossFit posted the article I linked to, responsibly, to make people aware of the risk of among other things kidney failure from its workouts if they don't ease into it.  It obviously doesn't mean that everyone who does CrossFit ends up in kidney failure, and the fact that CrossFit has a high injury rate as I've repeatedly said doesn't make it a bad workout.

Now you tell me again, those people who ended up with rhabdo, bad technique, or otherwise they had nothing to worry about?  Or were they doing supervised CrossFit workouts and simply ending up with potential kidney failure from the workout itself?  How reckless were they?

I checked out a local CF gym. The work outs  seemed intense and varied. I Liked that. I didn't so much like the workouts determined by central command, "Pukie the Clown" (wtf?), and posting scores/times. I asked some questions and liked most of what I heard but when I asked about injuries and injury prevention, the response was pretty much a deal breaker.

"People get injured doing all kinds of sports."

It occurred to me then that CrossFit is the end goal and not a means to the end. I go to the gym to support my "outside" activities. Not being able to bike, ski, climb etc. because I injured myself competing in a pull up competition didn't seem like what I was looking for. If I get injured, I hope it would be while doing something I love, not flipping a tractor tire.

I found a gym with similar exercises and a less intense atmosphere.

It's not for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CTKook 

 

The problem, in CrossFit's own words, regarding potential kidney failure is not poor technique, nor someone working out unsupervised, but instead "it seems abundantly clear that these folks were exposed to too much work in too short a time."  Those affected include Special Ops personnel and college athletes and surfers, and most were in supervised CrossFit workouts.  The nature of CrossFit itself nearly killed them.

 

... "but not to your own",

 

...and the fact that CrossFit has a high injury rate as I've repeatedly said doesn't make it a bad workout.

 

Crossfit's high injury rate(?), compared to what.  Compared to other aggressive training methods, I would say not really.  I have not seen many injuries in our box.  We had a serious broken ankle from sprints indoors and some other lesser issues.  You can get really hurt mountain biking, skiing and running rough terrain.  Many people see Crossfit more like a sport than a gym.  I don't see it as a sport personally.  Name of the game is don't get hurt.

I have seen potential risky situations with regards Rabdo.  When skilled athletes come through the door at Crossfit  but have never done a WOD of that high intensity - that can be risky.  We had a strong and quite fit woman, a well qualified fitness instructor, who came in for a WOD.  She was amazing and she did a great job, but she paid a price for it.  This could have been a bad situation.  Most who join Crossfit just can't get to the level of intensity to be dangerous.  They have to train up to that capacity.

I have not found alternatives to Crossfit that offer the intensity and the community - the results.  Personal trainers are a dime a dozen and from what I have seen ...no thanks.  I can see using a personal trainer as a consultant but to be coached one on one is not attractive unless it was at a very high level.  The coaches at my box are far better than most local options for personal trainers.  They seem to be in an endless clinic, expanding knowledge and skill constantly.  They certify often often and we bring speakers and coaches available to everyone.  We have a critical mass, enough people to make this possible.  Safety is almost always a part of those events.

Not every box is the same.

and once again Koot - cheap shot - "but not to your own."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Jones 

 

...I have seen potential risky situations with regards Rabdo.  When skilled athletes come through the door at Crossfit  but have never done a WOD of that high intensity - that can be risky.  We had a strong and quite fit woman, a well qualified fitness instructor, who came in for a WOD.  She was amazing and she did a great job, but she paid a price for it.  This could have been a bad situation. 

 

...and once again Koot - cheap shot - "but not to your own."

 

 

 

You are highlighting the dangers of kidney failure, again, as a direct result of CrossFit workouts by fit people, while seemingly saying the activity is safe. 

Yes, you can get hurt and even die mountain biking, skiing, etc.  If someone is aware of the risks that go with CrossFit  workouts, I wouldn't say they should not do them just because of the risk of kidney failure, elbow and shoulder injuries, and assorted other things that go with it.  It's to me similar to some types of hot yoga, that can also be somewhat cultish and also can have health risks, but that many people enjoy and find enriching. Just acknowledge the risk.  And the fact that actual crosstraining benefit to actual sports may be highly limited.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Jones 

 

...I have not found alternatives to Crossfit that offer the intensity and the community

 

...

 

There may also be a reason for this.  For instance, high-rep Olympic lifts.  Non CrossFit trainers generally don't do O-lifts beyond six lifts, or after fatigue sets in to the point form deteriorates, because of both the injury risk, and because the athletic gains they want from the lifts will actually be undermined by high reps, and they generally with appropriate equipment don't want people lowering as opposed to dropping the bar for the same reasons.  Even the diet recommendations of other trainers tend to be different, for a reason.

It's also true that people can , say, google Greg Glassman, CrossFit's founder, and see that after years of CrossFit his average physique over the last few years, well, speaks for itself.  Lots of older people in any sport obviously may not have the physiques of 20-somethings, but if a certain subset claims both unique intellectual insights to training and uniquely special results, they should also show the ability to do well on their own cooking. 

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